[SCF] Vegas Golden Knights (P1) vs. Florida Panthers (WC2) | Golden Knights win 2023 Stanley Cup

[*Buzzsaw*]

9 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Barkov's scored 5 goals in these playoffs.. Playing first line minutes, 20 games, 5 goals. I know everyone says Barkov is underrated, but 5 goals is pretty bad for the player he is supposed to be. 

Barkov has 16 points in 20 games.

 

And his line has had the shutdown role throughout... he is the reason why Mathews and Marner did nothing in the Toronto series.

 

He contributes defensively hugely... and he has been a part of a lot of Florida goals, even if he didn't get an assist.

 

I think he has contributed as much as Tkachuk when you look at total effort at both ends... and he hasn't taken a lot of stupid penalties which led to Vegas goals, which you can't say for Tkachuk.

[*Buzzsaw*]

30 minutes ago, NZCanuck said:

Should players come onto the ice from their players’ benches after the period ends and prior to the start of an altercation, they shall not be penalized if they remain in the vicinity of their players’ bench and SECTION 6 – PHYSICAL FOULS NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE OFFICIAL RULES 2021-2022 78 provided they do not get involved in any altercations.

 

And

 

70.10 Fines and Suspensions – The first player to leave the players’ or penalty bench illegally during an altercation or for the purpose of starting an altercation from either or both teams shall be suspended automatically without pay for the next ten (10) regular League and/or Play-off games of his team.

 

There is nothing wrong with Pietrangelo leaving the penalty box (assuming he was let out- there is an issue that the timekeeper should have held him in until the skirmish was over). The issue is that he needed to head straight to the bench. Instead he went straight in and engaged a Panthers player before anyone engaged with him. It's not Vegas hate, it's literally just asking the rules to be applied. The NHL rules determine the penalty box and bench to be one and the same at the end of a period. I believe the Hockey Canada rules are even more clear with it being an automatic penalty to leave the box if there is a fight on the ice whether you get involved or not.

Pietrangelo did not engage a Florida player, he just stood next to him.

 

Tkachuk then came up behind Pietrangelo and grabbed him in a headlock in a deliberate attempt to injure his neck... he reacted to that.

[Toews]

19 minutes ago, NZCanuck said:

Should players come onto the ice from their players’ benches after the period ends and prior to the start of an altercation, they shall not be penalized if they remain in the vicinity of their players’ bench and SECTION 6 – PHYSICAL FOULS NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE OFFICIAL RULES 2021-2022 78 provided they do not get involved in any altercations.

 

And

 

70.10 Fines and Suspensions – The first player to leave the players’ or penalty bench illegally during an altercation or for the purpose of starting an altercation from either or both teams shall be suspended automatically without pay for the next ten (10) regular League and/or Play-off games of his team.

 

There is nothing wrong with Pietrangelo leaving the penalty box (assuming he was let out- there is an issue that the timekeeper should have held him in until the skirmish was over). The issue is that he needed to head straight to the bench. Instead he went straight in and engaged a Panthers player before anyone engaged with him. It's not Vegas hate, it's literally just asking the rules to be applied. The NHL rules determine the penalty box and bench to be one and the same at the end of a period. I believe the Hockey Canada rules are even more clear with it being an automatic penalty to leave the box if there is a fight on the ice whether you get involved or not.

Except Pietrangelo didn't leave the penalty box illegally, he was let out because the period was over. It was the job of the official to let him out as the penalty expires when the game is over. The official should not be holding Pietrangelo in the box after the penalty is over. Even if what you said was true that the official shouldn't be letting him out, its still not Pietrangelo's fault. In addition to what I quoted earlier,

Quote

- A minor penalty shall be assessed to any player who leaves the penalty bench before his penalty has expired, unless it resulted from an error by the Penalty Timekeeper. In all situations, the player shall serve the remaining penalty time. If a Penalty Timekeeper error occurred, no additional minor penalty assessed.

So rules also indicate that its not the players fault if the official makes an error and lets him out earlier than he is supposed to. Also when it is a 6v4 brawl happening (not counting the goalie), it would be cowardly for Pietrangelo to turn his back on his teammates. I would be inclined to agree if Pietrangelo went out there and actively instigated a brawl.

 

I am not accusing you of Vegas hate, personally I am cheering for the Panthers have been since the playoffs started but I don't see a suspension being warranted in this instance. Pietrangelo should have gotten a lot more than the 1 game he got earlier in the playoffs but I have given up on this league ever getting the supplemental discipline right, these playoffs have again highlighted how much of a gongshow the officiating in this league is. There is no professional league where there is such a drastic difference between how the regular season is officiated and how the playoffs are officiated.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Torts was correct in saying the core was "stale".   It's ancient history now.   Ferland schooled that team.   Brown showed him what to do. 

I myself should heed this advice.  I try & refrain from talking about Jim Benning (unless it relates to a specific topic question) from now on.  Understood.

[alt kilgore]

31 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Barkov has 16 points in 20 games.

 

And his line has had the shutdown role throughout... he is the reason why Mathews and Marner did nothing in the Toronto series.

 

He contributes defensively hugely... and he has been a part of a lot of Florida goals, even if he didn't get an assist.

 

I think he has contributed as much as Tkachuk when you look at total effort at both ends... and he hasn't taken a lot of stupid penalties which led to Vegas goals, which you can't say for Tkachuk.

I was going to react to Drakrami's post too.  I was going to say that, if you watch the games, you'd have to say that Barkov has absolutely outplayed Tkachuk.  But Tkachuk is a master at not doing much all game, but quick to see an opportunity in front of the net to tap the puck in after players  like Barkov have done most of the work.

[Elias Pettersson]

This would be the reason why I would be okay to sign Milan Lucic as the 13th forward.  I'd even be okay to bring Zack Kassian back just for the Florida games...

 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

50 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It might have been one of the Sedins better series.   Just think about that.   Like it or not, the Sedins did have a hard time translating their game in the post-season, but for sure they were a huge part of getting there.   It's truly too bad they didn't peak a little earlier when the WCE express was doing their thing.   

 

They might be the only Hall of Famers I can think of other than Cam Neely who took that long to get going.  And Cam got there a year quicker.  Cam Neely, who was developing so slowly the Canucks gave up on him, hit his stride a year earlier than the Sedins (two years earlier if we count the lost lockout year...which we should).  If they had been good I think we get by Minnesota in 2003 even with Cloutier doing his thing.  I was happy for Ronning at least...

[IBatch]

44 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Pietrangelo did not engage a Florida player, he just stood next to him.

 

Tkachuk then came up behind Pietrangelo and grabbed him in a headlock in a deliberate attempt to injure his neck... he reacted to that.

Maybe someone should pin the "Good Friday Massacre".      Vegas won't back down to those shinanagans.   But at the same time it's nothing to get too hot blooded over either.    Teams used to do so much worse.   And as aside, very few fights end in concussions, it's the other crap that does, usually hits....   Cheap shots.   Wish these guys would just settle their stuff, and get on with it, but can't blame Florida for doing whatever they can to keep the series going either.   

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

He just gets paid to follow the bidding of those like Jeremy Jacobs to be honest. 

Yep also no backbone.

[Dr. Crossbar]

These playoffs have been awesome. I don't mind either team really.

 

I've been rooting for the Panthers after they bounced the Leafs and stunned Boston. That made me REALLY happy. Plus Bob's run was amazing up until the final. Really, the Panthers looked unbeatable. 

 

I do think a team in Vegas is good for hockey, exciting, and I understand why expansion teams in today's era can't suck for years on end. I get it. 

 

But to think Vegas has been to the final twice in the team's first six years and is on the verge of a Cup conjures huge conflicting mixed emotions as a Canucks fan given all that we've endured. It doesn't feel right. In principle, it's not. 

 

But ... for me ... it comes down to this ... and it doesn't have anything to do with Vegas. It's about us.

 

Vancouver needs to win a Cup as soon as humanly possible. Enough already! This fanbase and city deserves a winner and to win sooner than later. Not in ten years, not another 15 years ...

 

A freakin' SAP. 

 

 

 

 

 

Go Panthers! 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

26 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Yep also no backbone.

He was smart enough to change the requirement to remove him from that position.  I *THINK* it now requires a "super majority" vote of the board of governors to replace him.  He's one slimy individual (imho).

[NewbieCanuckFan]

45 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

They might be the only Hall of Famers I can think of other than Cam Neely who took that long to get going.  And Cam got there a year quicker.  Cam Neely, who was developing so slowly the Canucks gave up on him, hit his stride a year earlier than the Sedins (two years earlier if we count the lost lockout year...which we should).  If they had been good I think we get by Minnesota in 2003 even with Cloutier doing his thing.  I was happy for Ronning at least...

Gave up on him *AND* a future (1987) first round pick (3rd overall).  Take a good look at who else was available that year (other than the player Boston picked - who played 1400+ games at the NHL level) - a guy that was local boy that played in the WHL.  Course with Ron Delorme being one of the amateur Western Scouts .....

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4739

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

This would be the reason why I would be okay to sign Milan Lucic as the 13th forward.  I'd even be okay to bring Zack Kassian back just for the Florida games...

Zack already has beat the brakes of him. DIdn't make a difference. 

 

Tkachuk will never change. He is the same breed as Marchand. They thrive in the dirt and are desirable players because of it. Put up huge points, play physical and get opposition off their game. 

[Kevin Biestra]

41 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Gave up on him *AND* a future (1987) first round pick (3rd overall).  Take a good look at who else was available that year (other than the player Boston picked - who played 1400+ games at the NHL level) - a guy that was local boy that played in the WHL.  Course with Ron Delorme being one of the amateur Western Scouts .....

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4739

 

Heh, imagine if we had Sakic AND Neely basically in addition to everyone else in 1994.

 

Oh well, at least Barry Pederson was a good player even with his shoulder problems.  Boston Barry Pederson was pretty much a guaranteed Hall of Famer before his shoulder went on him.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

28 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Heh, imagine if we had Sakic AND Neely basically in addition to everyone else in 1994.

 

Oh well, at least Barry Pederson was a good player even with his shoulder problems.  Boston Barry Pederson was pretty much a guaranteed Hall of Famer before his shoulder went on him.

As badly as the Tiger Williams trade turned out (Vaive ending up having multiple 50 goal seasons for the Leafs), I think people underrate what "The Tiger" brought to the club.  I mean, the club still lost a ton of games but they didn't go willingly for the most part.  He tried to put a sense of pride into the uniform (heh, even those ugly "V" uniforms).  That to me has value.  You have to learn to walk before you can run.  

[Kevin Biestra]

14 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

As badly as the Tiger Williams trade turned out (Vaive ending up having multiple 50 goal seasons for the Leafs), I think people underrate what "The Tiger" brought to the club.  I mean, the club still lost a ton of games but they didn't go willingly for the most part.  He tried to put a sense of pride into the uniform (heh, even those ugly "V" uniforms).  That to me has value.  You have to learn to walk before you can run.  

 

The Tiger Williams trade was what Benning tried to do and failed at.  Rick Vaive was a 50 goal scorer and Bill Derlago a 40 goal scorer.  But without Tiger Williams there's a good chance we never had the 1982 run.

 

No run to the final and I think we would have been lamenting trading away two emerging 50 goal scorers a couple years apart for aging vets.  But we went to the final and all of Vaive's and Derlago's goals never really got the Leafs anywhere in the postseason.  I'm glad for the trade.  Tiger riding his stick alone is probably more 40 years later than anything Leafs fans have to remember from Vaive or Derlago, never mind the Cup run.  And I liked Vaive and Derlago...and Murray Bannerman and Brent Ashton who we also traded away around then as they were about to turn into great NHLers.

 

Go to the Cup final and they're good moves.  Make moves like that and then still miss the playoffs every year and you're Jim Benning.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

The Tiger Williams trade was what Benning tried to do and failed at.  Rick Vaive was a 50 goal scorer and Bill Derlago a 40 goal scorer.  But without Tiger Williams there's a good chance we never had the 1982 run.

 

No run to the final and I think we would have been lamenting trading away two emerging 50 goal scorers a couple years apart for aging vets.  But we went to the final and all of Vaive's and Derlago's goals never really got the Leafs anywhere in the postseason.  I'm glad for the trade.  Tiger riding his stick alone is probably more 40 years later than anything Leafs fans have to remember from Vaive or Derlago, never mind the Cup run.  And I liked Vaive and Derlago...and Murray Bannerman and Brent Ashton who we also traded away around then as they were about to turn into great NHLers.

 

Go to the Cup final and they're good moves.  Make moves like that and then still miss the playoffs every year and you're Jim Benning.

He shut-down a still in his prime Lanny McDonald (ok, Brodeur & Captain Video's stiffling defensive strategy had helped in that).  No easy task *AND* scored that overtime goal in game two.

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

He shut-down a still in his prime Lanny McDonald (ok, Brodeur & Captain Video's stiffling defensive strategy had helped in that).  No easy task *AND* scored that overtime goal in game two.

 

People don't believe it but Tiger scored more career goals than Henrik Sedin.  The guy was a legit player and an NHL all star as well.  Aside from being the all time NHL penalty minute leader with a bullet.  He was much more in the vein of Rick Tocchet / Bob Probert than Tony Twist / Basil McRae.

[bishopshodan]

11 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

People don't believe it but Tiger scored more career goals than Henrik Sedin.

By one goal. Had to look it up. 

But wow, I didn't know that. We could for sure use a guy like that on the squad. 

Henriks got a about 550 more assists though 

Edited June 12, 2023 by bishopshodan

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

By one goal. Had to look it up. 

But wow, I didn't know that. We could for sure use a guy like that on the squad. 

Henriks got a about 550 more assists though 

Totally different era. Not sure if Tiger could keep up with the speed of 4th liners. No one will argue his toughness.

But back then you could literally just fight and you'd get regular minutes.

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Heh, imagine if we had Sakic AND Neely basically in addition to everyone else in 1994.

 

Oh well, at least Barry Pederson was a good player even with his shoulder problems.  Boston Barry Pederson was pretty much a guaranteed Hall of Famer before his shoulder went on him.

This^.