[RUMOUR] Carolina looking to make major moves

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

They can achieve the same thing without adding Poolman and being forced into LTIR.  

 

Taking your example but excluding Poolman.  Carolina is at 83M and trade Pesce for Beauvillier 50% retained.  It puts them at 81M which is 2.5M under the cap.   Adding Poolman does nothing other than force them into LTIR and prevents them from banking cap space and limit recall options.  

 

Beauvillier is not worth Pesce even at 50% retained and it makes the deal even worse for Carolina by adding Poolman and forcing them into LTIR.  

 

New Beau is easily worth Pesce. Plus, in this idea, we retain and add Rathbone and more. The Canes should be adding. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, BigTramFan said:

Let's not propose any trades, since VAN already has all the best players!

 

How many empties are we talking?

[BigTramFan]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

[Elias Pettersson]

21 minutes ago, mll said:

They can achieve the same thing without adding Poolman and being forced into LTIR.  

 

Taking your example but excluding Poolman.  Carolina is at 83M and trade Pesce for Beauvillier 50% retained.  It puts them at 81M which is 2.5M under the cap.   Adding Poolman does nothing other than force them into LTIR and prevents them from banking cap space and limit recall options.  

 

Beauvillier is not worth Pesce even at 50% retained and it makes the deal even worse for Carolina by adding Poolman and forcing them into LTIR.  

 

Sure, of course that trade works for Carolina but it doesn’t work for Vancouver as it puts them over the cap and over the LTIR limit. Trades have to work both ways for them to happen. If Carolina is making the trade with Vancouver then they have to figure out a way for both teams to be cap compliant, not just one team.

 

In this particular example, this trade wouldn’t work for Vancouver regardless with Beauvillier at 50% retained because by trading Poolman the Cancuks then lose the LTIR benefit of being over the cap by $2.5 million.  Only way this trade works for both teams is if they traded the same salary back each way.  So basically it would have to be Beauvillier at full pop plus picks/prospects for Pesce.  That doesn’t help Carolina though as they would still need to clear cap to acquire both Tarasenko and Deangelo. 

 

Only way a Pesce trade to Vancouver would work is if Vancouver were able to trade one of Beauvillier, Garland or Myers to another team.  I’d be fine with trading Garland plus a sweetener to clear the cap needed to bring in Pesce.  

[mll]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sure, of course that trade works for Carolina but it doesn’t work for Vancouver as it puts them over the cap and over the LTIR limit. Trades have to work both ways for them to happen. If Carolina is making the trade with Vancouver then they have to figure out a way for both teams to be cap compliant, not just one team.

 

In this particular example, this trade wouldn’t work for Vancouver regardless with Beauvillier at 50% retained because by trading Poolman the Cancuks then lose the LTIR benefit of being over the cap by $2.5 million.  Only way this trade works for both teams is if they traded the same salary back each way.  So basically it would have to be Beauvillier at full pop plus picks/prospects for Pesce.  That doesn’t help Carolina though as they would still need to clear cap to acquire both Tarasenko and Deangelo. 

 

Only way a Pesce trade to Vancouver would work is if Vancouver were able to trade one of Beauvillier, Garland or Myers to another team.  I’d be fine with trading Garland plus a sweetener to clear the cap needed to bring in Pesce.  

 

It's trading Beauvillier at 50% retained the issue not Poolman - because you are moving out only ~2M when need 4M to fit Pesce.

 

Trading Poolman is actually a benefit as it allows them to get out of LTIR but a negative for Carolina.  Poolman is cap neutral on the day of the trade - he impacts prospective cap space though because it forces whichever team has him on their books to operate in LTIR.   

 

Poolman's LTIR doesn't create cap space as it's on both sides of the equation:  [regular roster + Poolman's LTIR] <=  [83.5M + Poolman's LTIR].  

 

All it does is change regular cap space into LTIR cap space.  It's always more beneficial to have regular cap space rather than LTIR cap space, because unused regular cap space can be banked while unused LTIR cap space is forfeited.  Also there are recall limitations in LTIR.  

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by mll

[DownUndaCanuck]

As good as Carolina are, if they're losing Pesce they'll want a RD back. Necas and Skjei, Aho, Teravainen are due raises next year (or at least Necas will get paid big time) and they have 3M in cap space. I wonder if there's a deal around Erik Karlsson or even Myers (who obviously comes off the books next year so facilitates their extensions nicely). They're solid down the middle but could use depth wingers/scorers, even with Svechnikov coming back.

 

Beauvillier + Myers (50% retained) + 1st for Pesce

 

or

 

1st + 2nd (way down the line) + Beauvillier for Pesce

Then Carolina flip the picks plus their own 1st or 2nd for Karlsson with some big retention

 

I doubt they'd make a play for Karlsson with so many contracts expiring next year and some guys due big raises so they'll be in cap troubles for sure next year. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Sounds like Carolina are set to acquire De Angelo again for 50% of his cap somehow, just throwing a random former 7th round pick to Philly. Writing's on the wall for Pesce, surely a trade will be made before training camp. Burns will surely play top pairing minutes again, no signs of slowing down, De Angelo will surely be their 2nd pairing defenceman and Chatfield and Coughlan mop up the bottom pairing minutes.

 

If they're acquiring TDA then maybe there's no room there for Karlsson. I wonder if there's a Hronek-like deal available then, just throw them a first and 2nd or prospect for Pesce. We'll be in trouble with the cap but can sort that out later, just hand some team Beauvillier for nothing.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Pesce for Nylander straight up should be on the cards for both teams.

[KirkSave]

19 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Pesce for Nylander straight up should be on the cards for both teams.

On paper this seems like a great deal as both teams address a weakness. The only issue I see is Carolina is very thrifty with their contracts and if Nylander is legit looking to land  deal worth 9-10 million, I see that as a major deterrent as Carolina would not make the deal to simply use Nylander as a rental and would not put that money down on a player who has skill but little will. 

 

If the Leafs are smart, they will try and keep Nylander and move out Marner in order to re-sign Willy and add a goalie. This is a trade I would float to Anaheim's brass- who are clearly rebuilding.

 

Toronto acquires: Gibson (M-NTC, waives to go to Toronto for a chance to play on a winning team) & Henrique (solid forward depth on an expiring deal who can play C)

 

Anaheim acquires: Marner & Murray 

 

Toronto then signs a 1 year show me deal again with Samsonov and they roll  1A, 1B goalie tandem, knowing Gibson's injury proneness. They also use Marner's cap space to offer Nylander a deal more to his liking.The core 4 is dead. Long live the overrated 3!! Now that's the Bees Knies

[stawns]

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Pesce for Nylander straight up should be on the cards for both teams.

Yeah, so many better deals out there for Carolina than Vancouver could  make.

[coryberg]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Yeah, so many better deals out there for Carolina than Vancouver could  make.

And should make.

[stawns]

19 minutes ago, coryberg said:

And should make.

Id love to have pesce in Van and would be fine paying a decent price, bug they don't have the pieces to outbid anyone I don't think

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Pesce for Nylander straight up should be on the cards for both teams.

How exactly are Carolina going to fit Nylander under the cap?

[Gawdzukes]

18 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

McDonough might be an NHL player one day, but he won't help CAR right now. And they are in win now mode.

 

 

Bang on with everything you said. Also I don't know if people we're watching at the end of last year but McDonough sucked pretty bad. He's slow as molasses and looked far worse than Gaudette. He's a big nothing burger unless he improves vastly from where he left off. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Bang on with everything you said. Also I don't know if people we're watching at the end of last year but McDonough sucked pretty bad. He's slow as molasses and looked far worse than Gaudette. He's a big nothing burger unless he improves vastly from where he left off. 

And McDonough will be 24 in November. He either contributes to the big club this coming season or he’s not an nhl player. 

[Gawdzukes]

33 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And McDonough will be 24 in November. He either contributes to the big club this coming season or he’s not an nhl player. 

He didn't look any better than Kravstov. AHLer for life if he keeps playing.