BC Ferries isn't as prepared for the long weekend as they thought they'd be...

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, Gurn said:

About an hour and 35 minutes, gives time to unload, then load and go, on a 2 hr schedule.

Langdale to Horseshoe Bay is 40 minutes.

oh it's the queen of surrey lol.. coz i remember the queen of coquitlam used to run the naniamo route prolly why i keep thinking it's a 2 hr trip

[Ghostsof1915]

10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

is it 40mins from horseshoe bay to naniamo?? i swear it was almost 2hrs last time i went to pick up my kitty. coffee is ok but overpriced i'm happy with my mcd or timmy's coffee i'm not picky.

Horseshoe Bay to Departure Bay is 1 hour and 40 minutes. Maybe forgot the 1 hour.

 

https://www.bcferries.com/routes-fares/schedules/seasonal/HSB-NAN

Edited August 5, 2023 by Ghostsof1915

[Mike Vanderhoek]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

is it 40mins from horseshoe bay to naniamo?? i swear it was almost 2hrs last time i went to pick up my kitty. coffee is ok but overpriced i'm happy with my mcd or timmy's coffee i'm not picky.

The ship discussed is the Queen of Surrey, it is the main ship for the Langdale route being 40 minutes. It was pulled from that route. The Coquitlam piggybacks the route to offer more frequent sailings and the Cowichan makes up the difference on non Coquitlam operating days.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

9 hours ago, -DLC- said:

I'd rather tune out and be stuck in 9 hour traffic with hot garbage in the truck in front of me and burning mattresses on either side of my car.

That is Drance.....

[Ghostsof1915]

No surprise, mentioning Drance, kills the thread.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Well, here is the problem with crewing and long term planning consistency...........(this is actual fact!)

 

#1. The BC Ferry Corp has known for 20 years that there would be a shortage of engineers and deck officers. (This is known world wide, ir is not new news)

 

#2. The BC Ferry Corp has a policy of hiring part time workers that are "NOT GUARANTEED WORK". Yet, must be available if phoned for work. I do not know anyone who can actually stand by, and not work, just for the chance of a shift. I also question a government (Liberal or NDP) who would support  a policy where an employee would leave one job for another just at a chance of obtaining full time work with the ferries, leaving the other business' short for their shift to be filled. 

 

#3. The condition of some of these vessels has also been known for years, and as a ship ages, its repairs needed increase, meaning more and more down time. 

 

These are known issues.....................Both the Liberals and NDP are responsible for this. It is a Management plan that has not worked..........Plain and simple!

[bishopshodan]

4 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, here is the problem with crewing and long term planning consistency...........(this is actual fact!)

 

#1. The BC Ferry Corp has known for 20 years that there would be a shortage of engineers and deck officers. (This is known world wide, ir is not new news)

 

#2. The BC Ferry Corp has a policy of hiring part time workers that are "NOT GUARANTEED WORK". Yet, must be available if phoned for work. I do not know anyone who can actually stand by, and not work, just for the chance of a shift. I also question a government (Liberal or NDP) who would support  a policy where an employee would leave one job for another just at a chance of obtaining full time work with the ferries, leaving the other business' short for their shift to be filled. 

 

#3. The condition of some of these vessels has also been known for years, and as a ship ages, its repairs needed increase, meaning more and more down time. 

 

These are known issues.....................Both the Liberals and NDP are responsible for this. It is a Management plan that has not worked..........Plain and simple!

I was going to mention your second point.

 

All their job listing are 'casual' yet they keep mentioning that they have employee issues....

 

They are not offering solid jobs! as you say, most people cant sit around and wonder if they have work. 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by bishopshodan

[The Arrogant Worms]

9 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

I was going to mention your second point.

 

All their job listing are 'casual' yet they keep mentioning that they have employee issues....

 

They are not offering solid jobs! as you say, most people cant sit around and wonder if they have work. 

 

Washington State Ferries system is in even worse shape.

[Gurn]

10 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, here is the problem with crewing and long term planning consistency...........(this is actual fact!)

 

#1. The BC Ferry Corp has known for 20 years that there would be a shortage of engineers and deck officers. (This is known world wide, ir is not new news)

 

#2. The BC Ferry Corp has a policy of hiring part time workers that are "NOT GUARANTEED WORK". Yet, must be available if phoned for work. I do not know anyone who can actually stand by, and not work, just for the chance of a shift. I also question a government (Liberal or NDP) who would support  a policy where an employee would leave one job for another just at a chance of obtaining full time work with the ferries, leaving the other business' short for their shift to be filled. 

 

#3. The condition of some of these vessels has also been known for years, and as a ship ages, its repairs needed increase, meaning more and more down time. 

 

These are known issues.....................Both the Liberals and NDP are responsible for this. It is a Management plan that has not worked..........Plain and simple!

4 They went from 3 deckhands down to 2 on multiple smaller routes, with less engine room staff as well, so there is less chance of folk advancing.

5 They assumed people would stay until they turned 65

6 they broke contract language and laid off employees in a way that violated the collective agreement. This convinced a number of people to retire early, leaving them shorter of staff.

7- The hours of work are not great- take a look at the first sailings from each terminal, and subtract 15 minutes, to get most crew start times. Keep in mind that is start time, on board and at their actual job station. So subtract another 15- 20 minutes to get a coffee from the crew mess, hang up coats etc.

8 wage increases have not kept pace with inflation- I know many folk, in many jobs,  have the same issue but there it is.

[Gnarcore]

My complaint about BC Ferries is I can no longer ride on with minutes to spare on my motorbike. Have to be there 30 mins early now. 'It is not fair to the people in cars..' boo f**king hoo. I am on a motorbike..I am better than all those people in cars and deserve special treatment!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mostly joking. Happy with my 1/2 price fair and first on/off perks. I am usually early anyways :D

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

4 They went from 3 deckhands down to 2 on multiple smaller routes, with less engine room staff as well, so there is less chance of folk advancing.

5 They assumed people would stay until they turned 65

6 they broke contract language and laid off employees in a way that violated the collective agreement. This convinced a number of people to retire early, leaving them shorter of staff.

7- The hours of work are not great- take a look at the first sailings from each terminal, and subtract 15 minutes, to get most crew start times. Keep in mind that is start time, on board and at their actual job station. So subtract another 15- 20 minutes to get a coffee from the crew mess, hang up coats etc.

8 wage increases have not kept pace with inflation- I know many folk, in many jobs,  have the same issue but there it is.

Just to clarify a few things.......we might as well be right, when discussing this

 

#4..........Transport Canada has manning requirements, based on how many passengers are sailing on a ship. They normally run with a full compliment, but can go for a lesser certification that results in less people allowed on the ship, regardless if there is room for vehicles or passengers or not. But they can not legally run with less crew than is required by law. One reason is for emergency duties, such as a ship evacuation. Same goes for the duties on said emergency.....all stations "MUST" be manned. So if they have less crew, because of illness, traffic delays, etc....they still can sail, but not with a full ship of passengers. (this is the quick and dirty version just for clarification)

 

#5...........Man, you are right on this one! Because of the hiring practices on the ferries, they start by offering the crew needed 1.5 X , if everyone says no, that goes up to 2.0 X offered, if still no one, 2.5 X is offered, and finally 3X.....all to the same people on the list at every rate, and each time until filled. There are rumours that there are crew on some of the ships that have banked up to a million dollars in Over time. This is not, and I repeat not, a Union problem, this is a management problem, caused by hiring a minimum of full time workers, hence resulting in having to call back people on time off.

 

#6.............Imagine the Crewing and Human Resource Departments, that had their union right bargained away during contract negotiations, so that the union could retain the Officers inside the Union. The fact is that both the Union and Management are complicit, when it suits themselves. (Hey, I am a Union guy, but the back room deals suck the big one!)

 

#7.............Hours of work are a mariners hazard. Freighters, tugs, Coastguard, Navy, etc all work wonkie hours, for many reasons. Just as Doctors and Nurses, Truck Drivers, Train operators and Aircraft Pilots do...............it is the pain you pay.............(Trust me I know first hand!)

 

#8..............Welcome to "Working for the Man!" Reality sucks! And everyone is in the same boat...........well almost everybody!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by J.I.A.H.N

[Gurn]

7 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

#4..........Transport Canada has manning requirements, based on how many passengers are sailing on a ship. They normally run with a full compliment, but can go for a lesser certification that results in less people allowed on the ship, regardless if there is room for vehicles or passengers or not. But they can not legally run with less crew than is required by law.

They can, and have convinced Transport Canada to 'down grade' the requirements, by getting the classification of the area in which the ships sails lowered.

ie- what was once "home trade 3 waters" becomes 'sheltered waters" so  they go  from needing covered rafts to only needing an 'innner tube,  with a a bottom , and with out a canopy for all life rafts, and simultaneously dropping required deckhand complement from 3 to 2. Also replacing some of the older, small ships with the newer "Island class"; accomplished the same thing. Newer tech resulted in lesser crew size.

 One route they drilled a very small segment of the crew repeatedly for weeks, then used those crew to show transport Canada that a smaller crew size could still work the ship-but never gave the rest of the crew the 'extra training.

In Nanaimo they moved a 'drill crew' from ship to ship for the Transport Canada  SIC 16 drills- until an inspector caught on to why he was seeing the same crew on 3 different ships on 3 different days during the annual licensing drills.

On The Spirit class ships, many of the life rafts you see on the racks outside the ship are no longer valid/inspected for use- as they are not required for the passenger complement the ferry will actually carry.

Crew size- Spirit class example

A license 52 crew to carry 2,1000 passengers

B license 49 crew to carry 1,900 

C license 42 crew for        1,500

D license etc.

^ numbers approx as it has been decades since I served on the Spooks.

So they will run on a reduced license, and still appeal to transport Canada to get that number lowered further.

 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

38 minutes ago, Gurn said:

They can, and have convinced Transport Canada to 'down grade' the requirements, by getting the classification of the area in which the ships sails lowered.

ie- what was once "home trade 3 waters" becomes 'sheltered waters" so  they go  from needing covered rafts to only needing an 'innner tube,  with a a bottom , and with out a canopy for all life rafts, and simultaneously dropping required deckhand complement from 3 to 2. Also replacing some of the older, small ships with the newer "Island class"; accomplished the same thing. Newer tech resulted in lesser crew size.

 One route they drilled a very small segment of the crew repeatedly for weeks, then used those crew to show transport Canada that a smaller crew size could still work the ship-but never gave the rest of the crew the 'extra training.

In Nanaimo they moved a 'drill crew' from ship to ship for the Transport Canada  SIC 16 drills- until an inspector caught on to why he was seeing the same crew on 3 different ships on 3 different days during the annual licensing drills.

On The Spirit class ships, many of the life rafts you see on the racks outside the ship are no longer valid/inspected for use- as they are not required for the passenger complement the ferry will actually carry.

Crew size- Spirit class example

A license 52 crew to carry 2,1000 passengers

B license 49 crew to carry 1,900 

C license 42 crew for        1,500

D license etc.

^ numbers approx as it has been decades since I served on the Spooks.

So they will run on a reduced license, and still appeal to transport Canada to get that number lowered further.

 

 

Basically, what I said, but much better articulated..........I think it is important to have this discussion as it draws out the information that informs the rest of CDC.

 

Yup, I think your point is valid and only proves that BC Ferry management is responsible for this mess.

 

Unfortunately, GLOBAL News does not report the whole story and only the 15 second clip, which give the public just a little info, and sways the public to think it is a Union problem, which of course it is not.

 

Nope, this is all on management...........but GLOBAL will not report on that, so no one will really understand the entire issue.

 

Thanks Gurn for replying to my post......I hope people read it, so they can better understand the issue

 

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Yup, I think your point is valid and only proves that BC Ferry management is responsible for this mess.

Sadly- B.C. Ferries is not the only quasi government organization being run poorly.

 

someday, if you happen to be in a hospital, and have time to walk around a bit:

take a look at all the office doors, usually with fancy lettering on them, for people that seem to have nothing to do with patient care, house keeping, food supply or record keeping.

 

Our local rec center has multiple offices, filled with folk that don't fit in the space at municipal hall. Is it because Municipal hall is too small, or are there to many people?

Multiple school boards, hospital boards, regional districts, on and on.

 

 

Note it isn't just a government problem

Big Business is prone to massive mistakes and 'pork' as well.

 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

We really need to study how nations like Sweden, Norway, Finland do it. They have strong social programs, healthcare, daycare, and infrastructure. When I see videos on how nice the roads are, the fact that in winter they have crews that not only clear the roads, but the sidewalks and bike lanes as well. It's not a matter of the taxes (They are heavily taxed but I don't think much more than here.) It's just they seem to get a great bang for the buck. Plus they pay for university education, and speak multiple languages.

 

Is it because nothing is privatized, and they audit programs so well? They even manage their forests better. I'm not sure about now, but in the 1990's they employed twice as many people in forestry, and cut 1/2 the number of wood that we do here in BC. Is it selective logging? Just better management and no waste? They even have stronger defense industries than we do.

[Ghostsof1915]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

They can, and have convinced Transport Canada to 'down grade' the requirements, by getting the classification of the area in which the ships sails lowered.

ie- what was once "home trade 3 waters" becomes 'sheltered waters" so  they go  from needing covered rafts to only needing an 'innner tube,  with a a bottom , and with out a canopy for all life rafts, and simultaneously dropping required deckhand complement from 3 to 2. Also replacing some of the older, small ships with the newer "Island class"; accomplished the same thing. Newer tech resulted in lesser crew size.

 One route they drilled a very small segment of the crew repeatedly for weeks, then used those crew to show transport Canada that a smaller crew size could still work the ship-but never gave the rest of the crew the 'extra training.

In Nanaimo they moved a 'drill crew' from ship to ship for the Transport Canada  SIC 16 drills- until an inspector caught on to why he was seeing the same crew on 3 different ships on 3 different days during the annual licensing drills.

On The Spirit class ships, many of the life rafts you see on the racks outside the ship are no longer valid/inspected for use- as they are not required for the passenger complement the ferry will actually carry.

Crew size- Spirit class example

A license 52 crew to carry 2,1000 passengers

B license 49 crew to carry 1,900 

C license 42 crew for        1,500

D license etc.

^ numbers approx as it has been decades since I served on the Spooks.

So they will run on a reduced license, and still appeal to transport Canada to get that number lowered further.

 

 

Or we run into a disaster where a vessel will sink with lots of casulaties, and the inadequate safety and crew standards will be there for all to see.

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Or we run into a disaster where a vessel will sink with lots of casulaties, and the inadequate safety and crew standards will be there for all to see.

This is so true. However- out of sight out of mind.

 

After the Humboldt bus crash disaster, changes were made to the laws regarding training and hours of work for rig drivers.

After a few months of 'lobbying' from company owners, and after public attention had turned elsewhere-the government eased off on the rules.

 

Same thing after the Queen Of the North sank- tougher rules, got eased up within a few months.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

6 minutes ago, Gurn said:

This is so true. However- out of sight out of mind.

 

After the Humboldt bus crash disaster, changes were made to the laws regarding training and hours of work for rig drivers.

After a few months of 'lobbying' from company owners, and after public attention had turned elsewhere-the government eased off on the rules.

 

Same thing after the Queen Of the North sank- tougher rules, got eased up within a few months.

 

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.