[Proposal] Sneak in another defenceman before the season starts?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Got to commend Allvin for acquiring a couple of decent, gritty, PK-worthy defencemen in Cole, Soucy and even Irwin, but I can't help but think it's a bit risky throwing Soucy into a top-4 role when he's only played 16 minutes last year on Seattle's bottom pairing, and we're putting a lot of trust in an older, slower Cole. I think they'll do great, but I worry about our left side. Hughes is going to log big minutes for sure sadly. Last year he at least had OEL eating around 20-21 minutes of poorly-played time to take some heat off Hughes, but now he's just got a former 3rd pairing guy in Soucy, and then who...Rathbone, Irwin or Hirose playing around what, 13-15 minutes? Hughes is going to be up at 25+ minutes easily and we really don't want him to break down later on in the season.

 

We need a solid, ideally defensive-first, shutdown LD who can play 20 minutes comfortably, eat some big shutdown minutes off Hughes, kill penalties while he's at it but mostly be a good backup for us. 

 

Looking around the league, there have been obvious proposals for Hanifin and Pesce, but obviously these deals are hard to make. Acquiring Pesce would mean Cole could play 19-20 minutes as the 2LD and Soucy bumped down to his natural, more comfortable spot as 3LD (and could pair nicely with Myers actually). Hanifin would be the absolute perfect 2LD - plays well in a shutdown role, could play with Hronek and make a very solid pairing, but you know Calgary wouldn't trade to a divisional rival and there's rumours that he doesn't want to play in Canada anyway.

 

That doesn't leave many other options out there - we don't need anyone elite, but just someone who can play 20+ minutes on the left side. Two names which come to mind are Nick Leddy and Samuel Girard, and maybe Sanheim.

 

St Louis are a mess right now, their cap structure is dreadful, they have a lot of long-term 6M deals, no vision of retooling or rebuilding really, I think they'll be stuck in mediocre no-man's land for a while. Not sure what they're trying to do really but we could surely help them out. They have enough defencemen over there. What they lack is any scorers really. I know Leddy is 32, bit older and he's not massive but he plays a tough, gritty game and can comfortably play 20+ minutes. He's on a 4M deal for around 3 more years. I wonder what it'd take to acquire him - if it'd be as simple as a Beauvillier/Garland (with retention) + prospect (Woo, Rathbone?) swap, or if they'd want a pick out of it? Beauvillier straight-up (plus maybe a defensive prospect) gives them some real cap flexibility next off-season, they can re-sign him if they like or let him walk and take the 4M cap space.

 

Colorado are also interesting, with Byram about to burst onto the scene, Girard has always been maybe the odd man out over there on defence. Nice, compact 5M long-term deal for a younger guy, he's not that physical but can skate and pass well obviously. He'd surely cost a bit more and they want some help scoring. With Landeskog done for the year, I wonder if there's a straight-up Boeser-for-Girard deal out there?

 

We've gotten a lot more balanced this off-season but personally I'd rather we go heavy on defence and thin out our forwards (especially with guys like Podkolzin and Hoglander waiting in the wings) so I'd jump all over one of these deals. They're pretty similar cap-wise and are almost a lateral winger-for-defenceman move which makes both teams better. Both St. Louis and Colorado have good replacements for Leddy or Girard anyway and need scorers up front to replace those they've lost.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

You are not going to see any lateral trades involving a winger for D-man straight up.  A $5M defenceman is more valuable than any $5M winger we currently have (Kuzmenko the sole exception).  In any case, all the names you mentioned have a reputation for being very durable.  That's a big plus.  Otherwise, the names you've mentioned are either undesirable or unrealistic.

 

Girard has been a consistent LD option on a Colorado blueline that was completely ravaged by injuries last year.  Yes, he'd be the third pairing with Johnson/Kermit, but someone's gonna get hurt.  Makar has injury issues.  Byram has serious injury issues.  Josh Manson was really hurt, and he might not be ready following offseason surgery.  I know it looks like Colorado is overloaded on defence, but I guarantee you no Avs fan said that in 2023.  In any case, Colorado also needs to decide what to do with Devon Toews after this year.  If he leaves, they need Girard.

 

Leddy is not a defensive defenceman.  He's a puck-mover through and through, and that creates a few problems by pairing with Hronek.  Hronek himself is a guy who typically carries the puck out of his zone, so there's no reason in having two guys who play the same way.  Secondly, Leddy's not that good of a defender.  You'd be forcing Hronek to pick up the slack defensively, which is the opposite of what you're proposing.  Nick Leddy doesn't have a lot of trade value right now.  He struggled in Detroit, and now he's struggling again in St. Louis.

 

 

Travis Sanheim is not going to be traded.  The Flyers absolutely need their blueline to be better this year, and all eyes will be on Sanheim.  He is their #1 defenceman.  They might have a stud in Cam York but he's not their first option yet.  The only way you could get Sanheim (assuming he waives his NTC) is if you offered them a strong D-man in return.  Like Hronek.  It doesn't make sense for either side.

 

Noah Hanifin is the exact same issue.  He's Calgary's #1 option and he is probably going to get paid like one this summer.  My guess is he goes to an American team that's just lost some defensive depth and needs a replacement: Detroit.

[Warhippy]

The issue is, people will be looking at named individuals.  if you want to throw down a shot in the dark you need to be looking at the younger 19-23 year old freshman or sophomore types.  the 5-6 or even 7-8 that have all that potential but haven't actually played int he league.

 

the issue with this league is that defensive defensemen are actually easy enough to find.  Good ones a bit harder but serviceable ones fairly easily.  But they don't get played.  At all.  The onus on the blue line over the past 2 decades has been an endless march towards producing points.  But scoring goals doesn't prevent scoring goals which is why so many actually good defensemen don't get minutes.  

 

Look at the last 15 years of cup winners.  The stand outs that don't have that end all be all draft top 3 duo of players or HoF 1st ballot types like Chicago, Tampa, Pittsburgh have those defensive defensemen.  St Louis.  LA.  Vegas.  Boston.  

 

Try poaching from teams that have that surplus.  Look for a solid kid that has size and weight but can skate.  That's literally all we need is someone that can make one single pass.  Protect a net and move a stick easily while not being a lumbering oaf on skates.  We need a Willie Mitchell type and that should be easy to find but it's actually changing the mindset of an ownership and management group to get that player that can be transformed in to the perfect back end partner for a rover/offensive D like Hughes or Hronek

[J-Dizzle]

Retain on Myers to Florida and nab Montour? 

[Warhippy]

Here's some ideas for LHD that I was speaking of

 

Tyler Kleven- Ottawa

Daemon Hunt-Minnesota

Valtteri Pulli-San Jose

Evan Nause-Florida

John Ludvig-Florida

Griffin Mendel-Carolina

 

All of these are options I'd consider for sure as they fit the mold of larger/heavier LHD that can skate that fit the 23 and under age group and could be had for a smaller price due to being buried under the depth charts of not being spoken of in circles as they are not point producers.

[Citizen Erased]

Personally, I would rather add veteran depth that could be cheaper, like Alex Edler.

 

Younger guys need a lot of playing time to develop.

[higgyfan]

4 minutes ago, Citizen Erased said:

Personally, I would rather add veteran depth that could be cheaper, like Alex Edler.

 

Younger guys need a lot of playing time to develop.

I'm with you on this, although I'm not sure that Eddie can take on the minutes like he used to.  I prefer

a veteran that can play the minutes and hold the fort for a couple of years.  A guy like Brenden Dillon

Jets got him for a 2nd pick) would be perfect. I don't know what it would take to get him, or even if
the Jets would be willing to let him go.  There would have to be no $ exchange for either team. Maybe

Something like Bear with $250 retained + McDonough?

 

The Canucks have 3 promising LD prospect developing; 2 of which are solid defensive players that

can play physical.  Truscot 21yrs and Petterrson 19yrs.  The other player is Kudryavstev, who is

considered a 2-way, hard to play against type player 19yrs.  We will still have to wait a couple of

years before we see any of these guys in the NHL.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

I'm with you on this, although I'm not sure that Eddie can take on the minutes like he used to.  I prefer

a veteran that can play the minutes and hold the fort for a couple of years.  A guy like Brenden Dillon

Jets got him for a 2nd pick) would be perfect. I don't know what it would take to get him, or even if
the Jets would be willing to let him go.  There would have to be no $ exchange for either team. Maybe

Something like Bear with $250 retained + McDonough?

 

The Canucks have 3 promising LD prospect developing; 2 of which are solid defensive players that

can play physical.  Truscot 21yrs and Petterrson 19yrs.  The other player is Kudryavstev, who is

considered a 2-way, hard to play against type player 19yrs.  We will still have to wait a couple of

years before we see any of these guys in the NHL.

Brenden Dillon would be my choice.  We may go after him next summer but it would be nice to have him now. I’d do Garland for Dillon.  Winnipeg will lose him for free anyways and we get Garland off the books.  It’s a fair trade for both teams. 

[Citizen Erased]

2 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I'm with you on this, although I'm not sure that Eddie can take on the minutes like he used to.  I prefer

a veteran that can play the minutes and hold the fort for a couple of years.  A guy like Brenden Dillon

Jets got him for a 2nd pick) would be perfect. I don't know what it would take to get him, or even if
the Jets would be willing to let him go.  There would have to be no $ exchange for either team. Maybe

Something like Bear with $250 retained + McDonough?

 

The Canucks have 3 promising LD prospect developing; 2 of which are solid defensive players that

can play physical.  Truscot 21yrs and Petterrson 19yrs.  The other player is Kudryavstev, who is

considered a 2-way, hard to play against type player 19yrs.  We will still have to wait a couple of

years before we see any of these guys in the NHL.

Edler wouldn’t have to take on a lot of minutes, as he would be a depth defenceman. Maybe a 6 or 7, depending on the injury situation.

[Citizen Erased]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Brenden Dillon would be my choice.  We may go after him next summer but it would be nice to have him now. I’d do Garland for Dillon.  Winnipeg will lose him for free anyways and we get Garland off the books.  It’s a fair trade for both teams. 

I’m not opposed to Dillon either. I think he can log more minutes than Edler, but I’m not sure there’s room for him at this time. I think having Edler as a number 6 or 7 makes more sense than Dillon, who I see as a number 4 or 5 on this team. Having said that, if they take Garland off our hands, I would be happy to and make room for Dillon.

[higgyfan]

2 minutes ago, Citizen Erased said:

I’m not opposed to Dillon either. I think he can log more minutes than Edler, but I’m not sure there’s room for him at this time. I think having Edler as a number 6 or 7 makes more sense than Dillon, who I see as a number 4 or 5 on this team. Having said that, if they take Garland off our hands, I would be happy to and make room for Dillon.

I was going with the OPs idea of having a 2nd LD that can play alongside Hronny and shave

minutes off Hughes toi.

 

Hughes   Cole

Dillon  Hronny

Soucy  Myers (sign Bear if Myers is traded).

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Quite like the idea of Dillon as well, he's older at 32 but just 1 year left at under 4M. Makes our defence older but also a lot bigger and tougher and he can easily play 20+ minutes. Again, depends on what Winnipeg want to do. Logan Stanley is 25, didn't play much last year but surely he's really close to top-4 minutes and they probably expect Dillon to leave once his contract is done, so might as well get something for him? Beauvillier for Dillon would be a nice lateral swap in terms of cap and value - they get a younger guy they can plug in and maybe re-sign cheaply. He's a pretty decent PKer too which always helps.

[KKnight]

7 hours ago, higgyfan said:

I was going with the OPs idea of having a 2nd LD that can play alongside Hronny and shave

minutes off Hughes toi.

 

Hughes   Cole

Dillon  Hronny

Soucy  Myers (sign Bear if Myers is traded).

 

One things for sure is that D corps is much tougher to play against. 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Quite like the idea of Dillon as well, he's older at 32 but just 1 year left at under 4M. Makes our defence older but also a lot bigger and tougher and he can easily play 20+ minutes. Again, depends on what Winnipeg want to do. Logan Stanley is 25, didn't play much last year but surely he's really close to top-4 minutes and they probably expect Dillon to leave once his contract is done, so might as well get something for him? Beauvillier for Dillon would be a nice lateral swap in terms of cap and value - they get a younger guy they can plug in and maybe re-sign cheaply. He's a pretty decent PKer too which always helps.

This type of thinking is exactly why CDC fans are ridiculed for overhyping everyone we try to get rid of in trade proposals.  How on earth is that a lateral trade?  If Beauvillier plays the same way he played with New York and Vancouver last year, we're going to let him walk in free agency.  He has negative trade value right now.  There's a reason he got completely chased off the first and second lines - he's just not that good.  You say he's a good PKer?  Beauvillier?  He's not a penalty killer.  He hasn't played over 30 minutes of PK time in over three years.  His 5v5 defence is shit.  And you want to trade him for Dillon, who has had a great season and is a massive piece of trade bait?

 

Look at it this way.  Winnipeg isn't going to entertain this type of trade until they figure out what type of team they're working with.  If WPG does well at the halfway point, they're keeping Dillon.  He's the exact type of player that a team wants in the playoffs - a big, strong, defensive dude who probably would've fit right into Vegas' blueline last season.  If WPG does poorly... he is going straight to a cup contender with salary retained.  We are probably not going to be up there with those contenders.  He's an impending UFA.  If Winnipeg throws in the towel and becomes sellers, they are going to sell to the highest bidder.  What's the price you're willing to pay for 3 months of Brenden Dillon?

 

You mentioning Logan Stanley makes me think you haven't followed the Jets closely at all.  The guy completely lost his job to Dylan Samberg last year.  Completely.  He didn't play because he was getting scratched to oblivion in favour of his teammates.  Expecting a guy who couldn't hold onto a third pairing role to suddenly get bumped up to top-4 minutes is absurd.

 

Anyone who thinks these players hold lateral trade value... I don't even know what to say.  Everyone wants a Dillon on their team.  Nobody wants a Beauvillier.

 

 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

52 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

This type of thinking is exactly why CDC fans are ridiculed for overhyping everyone we try to get rid of in trade proposals.  How on earth is that a lateral trade?  If Beauvillier plays the same way he played with New York and Vancouver last year, we're going to let him walk in free agency.  He has negative trade value right now.  There's a reason he got completely chased off the first and second lines - he's just not that good.  You say he's a good PKer?  Beauvillier?  He's not a penalty killer.  He hasn't played over 30 minutes of PK time in over three years.  His 5v5 defence is shit.  And you want to trade him for Dillon, who has had a great season and is a massive piece of trade bait?

 

Look at it this way.  Winnipeg isn't going to entertain this type of trade until they figure out what type of team they're working with.  If WPG does well at the halfway point, they're keeping Dillon.  He's the exact type of player that a team wants in the playoffs - a big, strong, defensive dude who probably would've fit right into Vegas' blueline last season.  If WPG does poorly... he is going straight to a cup contender with salary retained.  We are probably not going to be up there with those contenders.  He's an impending UFA.  If Winnipeg throws in the towel and becomes sellers, they are going to sell to the highest bidder.  What's the price you're willing to pay for 3 months of Brenden Dillon?

 

You mentioning Logan Stanley makes me think you haven't followed the Jets closely at all.  The guy completely lost his job to Dylan Samberg last year.  Completely.  He didn't play because he was getting scratched to oblivion in favour of his teammates.  Expecting a guy who couldn't hold onto a third pairing role to suddenly get bumped up to top-4 minutes is absurd.

 

Anyone who thinks these players hold lateral trade value... I don't even know what to say.  Everyone wants a Dillon on their team.  Nobody wants a Beauvillier.

 

 

 

Obviously this is why we haven't made a similar trade already, but keep in mind Beau is 26 years old and Dillon is in a contract year as a 32 year old. He might have a couple of good years left whereas Beauvillier could be an NHLer and maybe 10-20 goal scorer for what, 5 more years?

[Canucks Curse]

Myers bonus paid today ?

do we see a trade soon 

[Bobby James]

20 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Brenden Dillon would be my choice.  We may go after him next summer but it would be nice to have him now. I’d do Garland for Dillon.  Winnipeg will lose him for free anyways and we get Garland off the books.  It’s a fair trade for both teams. 

That feels like a solid trade. While a Dman may have more value then a winger right now, the Jets need players who are signed. This way they got a good winger locked in for a while longer still

[TopChed]

Realistically what's the point? We have callup fodder. Could we sign anyone better? HiRosey, Wolly,  G Breezy, Woourns, Merlin (M Irwin), Mega Jules, Boney R, Flip God247. 

 

Need some sort of opportunity for a callup no? Sure we could get a guy for 750K or whatever league min is but why? We have a bunch of guys fighting for that spot taking the carrot away would be no bueno!

Edited September 1, 2023 by TopChed

[Ted Lasso]

Love the idea of another top 4D, and think our best bet is a young, no-name shutdown D with wheels, that has the IQ to pair with Hughes. 
 

Maybe they only project to be a 3rd pair D in the NHL, so the acquisition cost is low. We’ve discussed Korczak from Vegas…wonder if there are others like him.

 

[Ted Lasso]

It’s possible Juulsen can be that guy for us, if he can stay healthy. He’s a smooth skater with good vision. 

 

If we can find that chemistry with Hughes, we could push Cole and Soucy down, as the OP suggests.