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Qur'an-Burning Pastor Terry Jones Denied Entry To Canada


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#1 Humble Rodent

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:42 PM

http://www.huffingto..._n_1958234.html


TORONTO - An anti-Muslim American pastor who earned an international reputation after burning copies of the Islamic holy text has been denied entry into Canada hours before he was to speak at a free speech rally in Toronto, organizers said Thursday.
Allan Einstoss said Terry Jones was turned back at the Michigan-Ontario border after being held there for several hours.
Einstoss decried the decision to keep Jones from attending a multifaith debate on freedom of speech, which was slated to take place in front of the Ontario legislature on Thursday evening.
He poured scorn on the official reason for the denial, saying it defied logic.
"In terms of checking for criminal records, I would make the assumption that's what they do on a daily basis," Einstoss said in a telephone interview.
Jones issued a statement Thursday night expressing "shock" at being refused entry.
"We consider this to be a grievous blow to freedom of speech. We hope that this is a lesson for the Canadians and the Americans for us to stand up, unite together, and protect our freedom of speech," the statement said.
According to Jones's statement, the rental car he was travelling in was thoroughly searched and protest placards were confiscated.
The statement said Jones and a travelling companion were refused entry based on an arrest in Michigan last year for refusing to pay a peace bond as well as a fine by the German government for using the title Doctor based on an honorary doctorate he received from a California university in 1993. Jones said he appealed both disputes and won but the statement indicated that border officials told him they needed more documentation in order to allow him to enter.
The Canada Border Services Agency declined to discuss Jones' case, saying it was against their policy to share details of any individual efforts to enter the country.
"Admissibility of all travellers seeking to enter Canada is considered on a case-by-case basis based on the specific facts presented by the applicant at the time of entry," the agency said in a statement.
Word that Jones had been turned back at the border spread rapidly through social media, drawing a slew of wide-ranging reactions.
Some touted the decision as an attack on freedom of expression, while others celebrated the fact that a man who commemorated the ninth anniversary of 9/11 by burning copies of the Qur'an at his church in Gainesville, Fla. would not have the opportunity to bring his message to Canadian soil.
"Yeah, Canada for standing up to hate & racism," read one Twitter post.
"I would've loved to check out the debate! But I'm glad Terry Jones isn't being let in," wrote another.
Others took a more nuanced position, arguing his hateful views of Muslims are not reason enough to bar him from the country.
Amin Elshorbagy, president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said Jones ought to have been allowed to air his views regardless of how extreme they may be.
"Personally I'm not really in favour of blocking or banning anybody," he said. "People have to be responsible for their own actions, but I definitely disagree with what he says and does."
Jones was scheduled to be the primary attraction at a multifaith debate on the film "Innocence of Muslims," whose negative portrayal of the Islamic prophet Mohammad has incited violent riots around the world. One skirmish claimed the life of the U.S. ambassador to Libya, along with three members of his staff.
Jones was slated to square off against Toronto imam Steve Rockwell, U.S.-based Muslim author Masud Ansari, and Sikh community leader Bikram Lamba. The event was also to feature a memorial to Cpl. Christopher Speer, a U.S. a medic killed in Afghanistan by Canadian war criminal Omar Khadr.
Einstoss said the event will go ahead as planned, but lamented Jones' absence from the proceedings. Interference from border officials, he said, has quashed an opportunity for a meaningful dialog on free speech.
"That's the government's choice, that's what they wanted," Einstoss said. "We could have had a nice civil evening, but that's their decision."
Jones is not the first public figure to be barred from the country because of his controversial views.
British member of parliament George Galloway, an outspoken supporter of the Palestinian people, was planning to visit Canada to make a series of speeches about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in March 2009.
Immigration Minister Jason Kenney pulled the welcome mat on him because of Galloway's alleged financial support to the Palestinian group Hamas, which the federal government considers a terrorist organization.
Galloway has said that Kenney's allegations caused him "18 months of hell'' and threatened his personal security. He lost his parliamentary seat in the 2010 election, only to be returned to office in a byelection earlier this year.
He has since sued the minister for $1.5 million.
Cases like Galloway's and Jones' seem poised to become more prevalent in the wake of a new immigration bill tabled in the House of Commons earlier this week.
Kenney's proposed legislation would give the government the right to turn people back from the border for public policy reasons, as well as the power to crack down on permanent residents and visitors for serious criminality.


As much as this guy is an idiot, and I don't really think that he cares about freedom of speech, I'm not sure how much I agree with not letting him in the country.
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#2 Dazzle

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:47 PM

http://www.huffingto..._n_1958234.html


TORONTO - An anti-Muslim American pastor who earned an international reputation after burning copies of the Islamic holy text has been denied entry into Canada hours before he was to speak at a free speech rally in Toronto, organizers said Thursday.
Allan Einstoss said Terry Jones was turned back at the Michigan-Ontario border after being held there for several hours.
Einstoss decried the decision to keep Jones from attending a multifaith debate on freedom of speech, which was slated to take place in front of the Ontario legislature on Thursday evening.
He poured scorn on the official reason for the denial, saying it defied logic.
"In terms of checking for criminal records, I would make the assumption that's what they do on a daily basis," Einstoss said in a telephone interview.
Jones issued a statement Thursday night expressing "shock" at being refused entry.
"We consider this to be a grievous blow to freedom of speech. We hope that this is a lesson for the Canadians and the Americans for us to stand up, unite together, and protect our freedom of speech," the statement said.
According to Jones's statement, the rental car he was travelling in was thoroughly searched and protest placards were confiscated.
The statement said Jones and a travelling companion were refused entry based on an arrest in Michigan last year for refusing to pay a peace bond as well as a fine by the German government for using the title Doctor based on an honorary doctorate he received from a California university in 1993. Jones said he appealed both disputes and won but the statement indicated that border officials told him they needed more documentation in order to allow him to enter.
The Canada Border Services Agency declined to discuss Jones' case, saying it was against their policy to share details of any individual efforts to enter the country.
"Admissibility of all travellers seeking to enter Canada is considered on a case-by-case basis based on the specific facts presented by the applicant at the time of entry," the agency said in a statement.
Word that Jones had been turned back at the border spread rapidly through social media, drawing a slew of wide-ranging reactions.
Some touted the decision as an attack on freedom of expression, while others celebrated the fact that a man who commemorated the ninth anniversary of 9/11 by burning copies of the Qur'an at his church in Gainesville, Fla. would not have the opportunity to bring his message to Canadian soil.
"Yeah, Canada for standing up to hate & racism," read one Twitter post.
"I would've loved to check out the debate! But I'm glad Terry Jones isn't being let in," wrote another.
Others took a more nuanced position, arguing his hateful views of Muslims are not reason enough to bar him from the country.
Amin Elshorbagy, president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said Jones ought to have been allowed to air his views regardless of how extreme they may be.
"Personally I'm not really in favour of blocking or banning anybody," he said. "People have to be responsible for their own actions, but I definitely disagree with what he says and does."
Jones was scheduled to be the primary attraction at a multifaith debate on the film "Innocence of Muslims," whose negative portrayal of the Islamic prophet Mohammad has incited violent riots around the world. One skirmish claimed the life of the U.S. ambassador to Libya, along with three members of his staff.
Jones was slated to square off against Toronto imam Steve Rockwell, U.S.-based Muslim author Masud Ansari, and Sikh community leader Bikram Lamba. The event was also to feature a memorial to Cpl. Christopher Speer, a U.S. a medic killed in Afghanistan by Canadian war criminal Omar Khadr.
Einstoss said the event will go ahead as planned, but lamented Jones' absence from the proceedings. Interference from border officials, he said, has quashed an opportunity for a meaningful dialog on free speech.
"That's the government's choice, that's what they wanted," Einstoss said. "We could have had a nice civil evening, but that's their decision."
Jones is not the first public figure to be barred from the country because of his controversial views.
British member of parliament George Galloway, an outspoken supporter of the Palestinian people, was planning to visit Canada to make a series of speeches about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in March 2009.
Immigration Minister Jason Kenney pulled the welcome mat on him because of Galloway's alleged financial support to the Palestinian group Hamas, which the federal government considers a terrorist organization.
Galloway has said that Kenney's allegations caused him "18 months of hell'' and threatened his personal security. He lost his parliamentary seat in the 2010 election, only to be returned to office in a byelection earlier this year.
He has since sued the minister for $1.5 million.
Cases like Galloway's and Jones' seem poised to become more prevalent in the wake of a new immigration bill tabled in the House of Commons earlier this week.
Kenney's proposed legislation would give the government the right to turn people back from the border for public policy reasons, as well as the power to crack down on permanent residents and visitors for serious criminality.


As much as this guy is an idiot, and I don't really think that he cares about freedom of speech, I'm not sure how much I agree with not letting him in the country.


C'est la Differences of Canadian free speech laws vs American free speech.
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#3 theminister

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:49 PM

That's too bad.

That would have been awesome to go to.
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#4 Niloc009

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:07 PM

Oh, darn. I'm so disappointed.
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#5 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:53 PM

If you have a jerk at your front door, it should be your right not to let him into your house.

Same principle.
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#6 Tearloch7

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:55 PM

We should have let him in and then never let him leave .. charge him for hate crimes ..
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#7 Lancaster

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:57 PM

If you have a jerk at your front door, it should be your right not to let him into your house.

Same principle.


Except it's not private property. It's like saying you won't let someone into a public park simply because you don't agree with his opinions (whether they're stupid or not is irrelevant).
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#8 DarthNinja

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:07 PM

Except it's not private property. It's like saying you won't let someone into a public park simply because you don't agree with his opinions (whether they're stupid or not is irrelevant).


According to the Government of Canada, Canadian Border Services as well as the Canadian Forces, Canada is private property.
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#9 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:11 PM

Thrilled that we turned him away!

It's not free speech to burn copies of a religious text that is different than your own. It's no different than destroying a flag; this is not free speech but an offensive act that should be condemned to the highest degree.
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#10 DarthNinja

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:24 PM

Thrilled that we turned him away!

It's not free speech to burn copies of a religious text that is different than your own. It's no different than destroying a flag; this is not free speech but an offensive act that should be condemned to the highest degree.


While I concur with you 100%, this was not the reason given for his denial of entry, rather, it was stated as being related to some prior criminal charges against him. Of course it could be that Canada is simply being 'diplomatic' about the real reason he is not wanted on this side of the 49.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

11477626583_2368927097.jpg     49997_b70e6ae14ce1652fa11bd1dda624afd1.g   7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

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#11 Mountain Man

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:34 PM

I fail to see his freedom of speech being withheld. The way he acts is being put in check.

At what point did he figure all these wonderful things he has done magically disappear?

A spade is a spade, just because you made it look like a club recently does not make it less of a spade.
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#12 Standing_Tall#37

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:41 PM

The real reason he wasn't allowed in is because he's right freedom of speech is very important. However his freedom of speech directly infringes on the freedom of religion. It isn't right to walk on human/Canadian rights.
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#13 elvis15

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:41 PM

Except it's not private property. It's like saying you won't let someone into a public park simply because you don't agree with his opinions (whether they're stupid or not is irrelevant).

According to the Government of Canada, Canadian Border Services as well as the Canadian Forces, Canada is private property.

Even if it wasn't, we sure do own the gate he'd have to go through to get into that park.

C'est la Differences of Canadian free speech laws vs American free speech.

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#14 Mountain Man

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

The real reason he wasn't allowed in is because he's right freedom of speech is very important. However his freedom of speech directly infringes on the freedom of religion. It isn't right to walk on human/Canadian rights.


Exactly, and his willingness to burn a book that he had probably never read but other people like it. Because the hokey pokey dance to get to the man at the gate is a little different. How very Christian of him .

I wish society could have people to supervise numptys like him.
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virtus junxit mors non separabit.

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#15 Grapefruits

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

---------

Edited by zero-ONE-three, 12 October 2012 - 01:08 PM.

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#16 Twilight Sparkle

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:03 PM

good. that guy is a lunatic. plain and simple
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#17 :D

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:15 PM

I'd be more apathetic if I weren't so lethargic.
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#18 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

While I concur with you 100%, this was not the reason given for his denial of entry, rather, it was stated as being related to some prior criminal charges against him. Of course it could be that Canada is simply being 'diplomatic' about the real reason he is not wanted on this side of the 49.


Free speech rally was the reason he was heading North which is why I brought it up. regardless of the premise for sending him back I'm thrilled that the authorities did.
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#19 kurtis

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:48 PM

Hes a nut job.
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#20 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:06 AM

Good for Canada.
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#21 Jaimito

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:24 AM

if he can burn a bible, then let him in as price of admission.
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#22 taxi

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:45 AM

The real reason he wasn't allowed in is because he's right freedom of speech is very important. However his freedom of speech directly infringes on the freedom of religion. It isn't right to walk on human/Canadian rights.


How so? How does his burning of a Koran stop other people from reading it?
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#23 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:48 AM

The Qur'an mentions Jesus 25 times, while Muhammad just 3 times.

It would appear that the only true 'Christian' in history was Jesus. Nobody since has acted like him.

(Even though he did murder several people out of anger as an adolescent and did not ressurect them. Hey, maybe he was crucified to atone for those sins, and not for the sins of all mankind. Hmmm.)
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#24 Jai604

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:14 AM

:picard:

Freedom of speech my ass.
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#25 J.R.

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

Not really upset that dill-hole wasn't let in but these people are aware it's the year 2012, right? They could simply have him attend the debate via Skype or something. Sure it would lose a little in the process but there's ways around this if they're not complete imbeciles.
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#26 Wetcoaster

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:53 AM

Canada is a lot more serious than the U.S. does when it comes to criminal charges. While the U.S. will let Canadians cross with certain charges, Canada will not with Americans.

Even minor criminal charges will give border services the right to refuse him entry, and I say good for them.

That is not correct.

Canada and the US treat criminal acts, charges and convictions differently due to differing statutory language - Canada under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (IRPA) and the US under the Immigration and Nationality Act as well as policy under the respective immigration legislation. Some crimes that would result in your inadmissibility to the US would not bar your admission to Canada and vice versa.

To consider admissibility to Canada, Canadian officials assess the crime according to Canadian laws (the process is referred to as "criminal equivalencing"). They look at the nature of the offence, how long ago the act took place and whether any sentences were imposed. Simply because a crime was misdemeanour offence in the United States does not mean it is automatically considered an equivalent less serious summary conviction offence in Canada. In Canada our crimes are classed as summary, indictable or "hybrid" (i.e. they can be proceeded with summariiy or by indictment at the discretion of the Crown). The US generally classes crimes as misdemeanours (less serious) and felonies (more serious).

Also some crimes in the US are not equivalent to crimes under our Criminal Code as they would fall within provincial regulatory offences - e.g. many offences under US securities law which in Canada are governed by provincial legislation and therefore outside the ambit of our Criminal Code which means it does not bar admission to Canada.. By the same token some provincial regulatory offences if they involve "moral turpitude" such as under our various securities acts would bar admission to the US.

In Canada if a crime is a pure summary conviction (and not a "hybrid") offence and you have only been convicted of one such crime, then it is not a bar to admission. A conviction for possession of a small amount of marijuana for personal use would not bar the admission of US citizen to Canada as it is a summary offence but the same conviction would bar a Canadian from entering the US.

Canada recognizes that if a person has been pardoned or received an absolute or conditional discharge (and the conditions have been satisfied) from the court, then the conviction is no longer a bar to admission. US court dispositions that are considered non-convictions for the purposes of the US criminal inadmissibility include deferred adjudication, conditional discharge, suspended sentence, dismissed charges & nolle prosequi.

Also if a specified period of time has passed since conviction for certain classes of offences (including some serious indictable offences), then that criminal inadmissibility ceases to have any effect on admission to Canada. This is referred to as "deemed rehabilitation".
http://www.canadavis...bilitation.html

Under US immigration if you are criminal inadmissible that inadmissibility is in effect continuously unless your are able to obtain a waiver from US immigration authorities so diversion, suspended sentences and discharges have no effect. Canada has a similar provision to the US waiver process (called "individual rehabilitation") but it only applies to the most serious of criminal offences.
http://www.canadavis...bilitation.html

And by policy the strict rules on inadmissibility may be eased by policy as is the case with a conviction for impaired driving which renders a person inadmissible to Canada but not do so under US immigration law. This policy was put in place in February 2012 and took effect on March 1, 2012:

A public policy was recently approved with respect to the entry of foreign nationals (FNs) who are inadmissible on A36(2) criminality grounds. Specifically, the policy allows the grant of a one-time fee exemption for a Temporary Resident Permit (TRP) for certain offences, including offences such as driving while impaired (also known as driving under the influence (DUI)).

...


As of March 1, 2012 the public policy exemption would apply to an FN to whom a TRP is being issued at a port of entry (POE) or a visa office abroad, who is inadmissible solely on the grounds of “criminality” under section 36(2) of IRPA, and who:
  • was convicted of an offence and received no term of imprisonment as part of the sentence imposed; and
  • has had no other convictions or committed any other acts that would render the person inadmissible.
http://www.cic.gc.ca.../2012/ob389.asp

The treatment of specific crimes may differ between Canada and the US as to inadmissibility - sometimes it works in favour of the person seeking entry and sometimes it does not.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 12 October 2012 - 10:58 AM.

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#27 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:27 AM

Could've just posted the last sentence there, bud.
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#28 Wetcoaster

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:18 PM

Could've just posted the last sentence there, bud.

And you could have continued to be ignorant and ill-educated.

Education is a good thing, eh bud?

You are prime example of why I seldom post at CDC any longer.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 12 October 2012 - 12:18 PM.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#29 Sharpshooter

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:32 PM

Could've just posted the last sentence there, bud.


Or you could have simply just read the last sentence and kept quiet.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
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#30 Humble Rodent

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:45 PM

You don't see single line westcoaster posts really
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