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[Firing] Burke Done in TO


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#181 Dogbyte

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

Luongo will be a leaf by Sunday.. if not I will eat my toque.


Even the pom pom on top?
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#182 Down by the River

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

I'd argue there's a much different dynamic at work here than when he was in Vancouver. Not comparable at all.

Vancouver ownership was hands off and not worried about marketing vs. 'building a winner'. We have been very fortunate with the Griffiths, even McCaw, and now Acquilini are 'hockey guys' with patience.

Rogers and Bell 1. Overpaid for MLSE for one reason. The synergies with their media business. I know this for a fact because I worked for a firm that represented one of the sides in the transaction and know the financial models inside out. 2. So therefore they need to 'market' the team and what sells the team after not making the playoffs for 8 years and after a lockout, making the playoffs. 3. How do they do that, address their biggest weakness next to center, goalie. 4. Make a splash and get fans excited to watch the game every night and sell the advertising....

Nonis is in a MUCH different position sir.


I agree with you that there is a different dynamic. It is also interesting that you had an inside perspective into the whole thing.

I think we are just talking about two different things. I think that, regardless of the ownership dynamic (hands off like the Aquilinis, or business strategists like the current MLSE group), Nonis still has his principles/philosophy, and is willing to follow those principles regardless of outside pressure.

Nonis was mentored by Burke and thus is not likely to have a radically different perspective, which is why I think that Nonis' replacing of Burke won't have a major impact on a trade for Luongo.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

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#183 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:50 PM

I agree with you that there is a different dynamic. It is also interesting that you had an inside perspective into the whole thing.

I think we are just talking about two different things. I think that, regardless of the ownership dynamic (hands off like the Aquilinis, or business strategists like the current MLSE group), Nonis still has his principles/philosophy, and is willing to follow those principles regardless of outside pressure.

Nonis was mentored by Burke and thus is not likely to have a radically different perspective, which is why I think that Nonis' replacing of Burke won't have a major impact on a trade for Luongo.


My point is, this is not 'normal' pressure. It is Rogers/Bell saying - You have no choice, You have to make that deal because we need the marketing biz. What better way to sell advertising around the leafs new season other than - We got a top ten goalie, cup finalist, vezina finalist, gold medal winner = tv ratings up = sell ads for more $ = good investment

These aren't hockey owners, they bought the company/leafs as a media play...need excitement to see that return...

These guys don't care when someone says I don't like long contracts, and MG is asking too much. You know what they say back?

Guess, what, we just paid x Billion for this franchise, I don't care about 30 ml bucks and giving up Gardiner...if it means I get 100 ml+ in revenues in the next 5 years from adverts.

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 09 January 2013 - 03:52 PM.

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#184 surtur

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

i bet if Lu goes to Toronto his jersey will set records with how fast they sell.
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#185 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

For those who remember the 98/99 fiasco..Somewhere right now, Mike Keenan is grinning.
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#186 NP-4815162342

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

Yes let's get kadri and gardiner who have no spot in our line-up much rather bozak +
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#187 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

TO's a team(flush with cash) that might take on a couple lousy deals, only to buy out-if they get some young stud prospects in a package. This would allow them to replenish the youth they'd send our way for Roberto.

This summer they'll be VERY active.
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#188 Dogbyte

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

I'd argue there's a much different dynamic at work here than when he was in Vancouver. Not comparable at all.

Vancouver ownership was hands off and not worried about marketing vs. 'building a winner'. We have been very fortunate with the Griffiths, even McCaw, and now Acquilini are 'hockey guys' with patience.

Rogers and Bell 1. Overpaid for MLSE for one reason. The synergies with their media business. I know this for a fact because I worked for a firm that represented one of the sides in the transaction and know the financial models inside out. 2. So therefore they need to 'market' the team and what sells the team after not making the playoffs for 8 years and after a lockout, making the playoffs. 3. How do they do that, address their biggest weakness next to center, goalie. 4. Make a splash and get fans excited to watch the game every night and sell the advertising....

Nonis is in a MUCH different position sir.


The MLSE is the biggest joke in sports. They should pull the trigger here even if it's for all the wrong reasons.
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#189 GarthButcher5

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:02 PM

hmmm, isn't Toronto short of one new loud mouth mayor that hates the media and has very little personality?

I don't think Burke would get Don Cherry's vote.
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#190 D-Money

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Quote from Nonis "we have a short time to make some key decisions...." "need to get the green light on decisions...." "decisions to make on certain players/contracts"

*cough* bet he wants to pull the trigger on Luongo (Burke didn't for the price).

Knowing Nonis in the past, he'll do a similar deal that brought Lui to Vancouver. Original deal was Auld,Bertuzzi and Allen for Krajicek, Lui and a pick. Look for Nonis to overpay (maybe Gardiner, Bozak, Kadri for Lui and Raymond with conditional picks both ways?).


We're not going to pry Gardiner out of them. Especially since they already moved Schenn.

Nonis severely underpaid in getting Luongo the first time. Now he's significantly older, and his GM is under the gun to move him. Why would he have to now severely overpay?
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#191 Ray Canuck

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:17 PM

It is naïve to think one issue (Lou) would trigger the firing.
I speculate that the goaltending issue may have been the final straw but hardly the sole reason.
It's not about hockey but $$$, Burke more than likely didn't fit the image MLSE would like to go forward with.
Nonis is a likeable guy, quiet and somewhat humble; a far easier sell to non-trad markets.....meaning the multi-cultural aspect of the GTA.
The Leafs are the most valuable team in the NHL, just think what a successful team would add to the coffers.
Building from the goal out is what Burke promised & failed miserably.
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#192 DeNiro

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

We're not going to pry Gardiner out of them. Especially since they already moved Schenn.

Nonis severely underpaid in getting Luongo the first time. Now he's significantly older, and his GM is under the gun to move him. Why would he have to now severely overpay?


Because it's not a severe overpayment?

People on here just undervalue Luongo big time. The fact is he's still a number 1 goalie and a top name player in the NHL.

Someone was using Rick Nash as a basis for a trade in another thread. He was traded for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, and a 1st round pick. Surely Luongo can get a couple prospects back in a trade. No matter how overrated they are on these boards.

Edited by DeNiro, 09 January 2013 - 04:20 PM.

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#193 Caboose

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:19 PM

Is that because you are a leaf fan or because you hate the leafs?


Leaf fan babe.

If Jake Gardiner is moved because the ownership pressured Nonis to move him I am done with this franchise.

Edited by Caboose, 09 January 2013 - 04:24 PM.

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#194 playboi19

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

"In Burke We Trust" - Leaf fans

LMAO!

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#195 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:29 PM

Don Taylor on the Team adamant that Burke was fired due to 'personal reasons'? Has Burke ever had personal reasons to be fired from TO? Doesn't make a lot of sense...to me it seems just having a poor playoff record, bad deals, and bad asset management (including lack of Luongo deal).


If Burke was to be fired for hockey reasons, then he would've been fired long ago.

Burke was hated by all the media there. (Notice that not one of them over there has come to his defense?) So when two media giants, who almost all those media guys work for, bought the team, a 'win for the media' over Burke there was upcoming.

But their hate was justified. Burke was abrasive and he banned a lot of them. Fine to do, IF you're winning.

Under Bell and Rogers, they obviously want somebody less antagonistic to fit in with their corporate agenda, which would be to have their brand be more easily accessed by the media outlets which they also own.

His antagonism likely 'got personal' often when somebody in the board room suggested that he do something that he didn't want to do.

imho His firing has nothing to do with Luongo or any other hockey-related reason. imho The timing is awful, but it likely indicated that the decision was made right away. Bringing in Carlyle mid-season was clearly an act of panic by a soon-to-be-fired GM. When they still didn't make the playoffs, that was that. MLSE should've just done it then, but MLSE has a tendency to do stupid-looking things.

Nonis is far less abrasive, of course, and is more likeable by the media. His robotic, vague non-answers will be a refreshing change from Burke's frack off approach.

But as far as a hockey move, this firing and the timing of it is ridiculous, and has continued ownership meddling written all over it.

Does Luongo want to be part of that?


PS. As far as i'm concerned, TO, the media and the fans have the franchise they deserve: A bloated blue corpse, to be forever gnawed at by hundreds of conniving rat reporters, held up by the strings of a fat pig puppetmaster ownership group who doesn't give a frack about hockey.
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#196 playboi19

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

Because it's not a severe overpayment?

People on here just undervalue Luongo big time. The fact is he's still a number 1 goalie and a top name player in the NHL.

Someone was using Rick Nash as a basis for a trade in another thread. He was traded for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, and a 1st round pick. Surely Luongo can get a couple prospects back in a trade. No matter how overrated they are on these boards.

The Columbus GM just sucks at negotiating, he screwed himself.
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#197 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:34 PM

Mike Gillis on Burke news: "I think it's terribly unfortunate. I know I was shocked when I heard the news. I wish Brian the best."
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#198 eretz canucks

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

What ppl are forgetting, is WE NEED CENTERMEN!!!

I'd do Luongo for Bozak, Kadri, 2013 first.
That's fairish.

Alternatively we trade for Gardiner and flip him or Edler to Philly for couturier!

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#199 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

At first I was extremely shocked, and I still am to an extent I just don't see why they would do it now as apposed to sooner.

But I think Nonis could do a solid job and hopefully he will step up and grab Lu like I think he will.
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#200 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

Mike Gillis on Burke news: "I think it's terribly unfortunate. I know I was shocked when I heard the news. I wish Brian the best."


I saw that too, I also saw Nonis say "We don't discuss pending transactions" when asked about Roberto, wonder if he is really going to step up and make a deal if he he hasn't already.
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#201 Down by the River

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

I saw that too, I also saw Nonis say "We don't discuss pending transactions" when asked about Roberto, wonder if he is really going to step up and make a deal if he he hasn't already.


Interesting that he used the term 'pending transaction'. A pending transaction would suggest that a deal is actually in place.
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OMG we could've had McKeown!

I think Virtanen was a terrible pick given that he's out for 6 months which will hinder his development. You don't pick someone at #6 under that circumstance, along with the fact that he was given a 3/5 IQ (aka he's dumb). 

God dammit Benning. WHY VIRTANEN? Terrible move.

Down by the River - Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young.


#202 DeNiro

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

The Columbus GM just sucks at negotiating, he screwed himself.


Maybe so. But I still think Luongo could fetch close to that package, especially if you think that was an underpayment for Nash.

He should be able to fetch us at least a roster player, a prospect, and a pick. That's a pretty standard trade package for a topplayer.
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#203 Pears

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:51 PM

What ppl are forgetting, is WE NEED CENTERMEN!!!

I'd do Luongo for Bozak, Kadri, 2013 first.
That's fairish.

Alternatively we trade for Gardiner and flip him or Edler to Philly for couturier!

Henrik
Kesler
Lapierre
Malhotra
Schroeder
Ebbett
Pinizzotto

That's solid depth at center so we don't exactly need more at that position, but one or two more wouldn't hurt.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

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#204 Pears

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

When I heard of Burke's firing I was basically like :blink: :o The only time I would've thought Burkie would be fired was at the end of the season if the Leafs missed the playoffs again.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#205 Markus Alexander Cody

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

:lol: Ah well.. Burke will find success somewhere else on another team. A team that needs to sell tickets or a team that needs a GM who is willing to make it a better team will hire him.
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#206 higgyfan

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:04 PM

If Burke was to be fired for hockey reasons, then he would've been fired long ago.

Burke was hated by all the media there. (Notice that not one of them over there has come to his defense?) So when two media giants, who almost all those media guys work for, bought the team, a 'win for the media' over Burke there was upcoming.

But their hate was justified. Burke was abrasive and he banned a lot of them. Fine to do, IF you're winning.

Under Bell and Rogers, they obviously want somebody less antagonistic to fit in with their corporate agenda, which would be to have their brand be more easily accessed by the media outlets which they also own.

His antagonism likely 'got personal' often when somebody in the board room suggested that he do something that he didn't want to do.

imho His firing has nothing to do with Luongo or any other hockey-related reason. imho The timing is awful, but it likely indicated that the decision was made right away. Bringing in Carlyle mid-season was clearly an act of panic by a soon-to-be-fired GM. When they still didn't make the playoffs, that was that. MLSE should've just done it then, but MLSE has a tendency to do stupid-looking things.

Nonis is far less abrasive, of course, and is more likeable by the media. His robotic, vague non-answers will be a refreshing change from Burke's frack off approach.

But as far as a hockey move, this firing and the timing of it is ridiculous, and has continued ownership meddling written all over it.

Does Luongo want to be part of that?


PS. As far as i'm concerned, TO, the media and the fans have the franchise they deserve: A bloated blue corpse, to be forever gnawed at by hundreds of conniving rat reporters, held up by the strings of a fat pig puppetmaster ownership group who doesn't give a frack about hockey.


So it stands to reason that the rat reporters, who are all jumping on the Luongo band wagon, will demand a trade. And, the pig puppetmaster ownership group will be hungry for the big playoff receipts that said goalie will bring. Works for Nucks!
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#207 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

Interesting that he used the term 'pending transaction'. A pending transaction would suggest that a deal is actually in place.


Yeah that is what I found interesting too, maybe he plans to finish it off if it isn't already finished.
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#208 elvis15

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

The Columbus GM just sucks at negotiating, he screwed himself.

He also had Nash demanding a trade, where Luongo isn't doing that. CBJ lost some value to get a deal done as a result, but still that's more than what was mentioned in return for Lu. We could get a portion of that type of return (picture a roster player, a prospect and a pick rather than 2 roster players a prospect and a pick).

Will Nonis give that up? If it's not all top end, then I think so, and I think they know Bozak isn't quite as good as he appears on paper so would be willing to trade him versus re-signing him.

What ppl are forgetting, is WE NEED CENTERMEN!!!

I'd do Luongo for Bozak, Kadri, 2013 first.
That's fairish.

Alternatively we trade for Gardiner and flip him or Edler to Philly for couturier!

Calm down. We could use a centerman to fill in either on the 2nd while Kes is out, or specifically for our 3rd, but we hardly need two (Bozak and Kadri, or one of them and Couturier).
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#209 *vInTaGe*

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

Weird timing, didn't see it coming.
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#210 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:26 PM

I think burke was a scapegoat and that MLSE was just tired of losing with no playoff revenue
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