Mike Gillis Re: Canucks "We're Going to be all Right"; Aquilini "2014 Canucks are NOT the REAL Canucks"

[oldnews]

I dont blame guys like Old News who want to believe in what they want to see. I can relate to thinking that way.............like back in the 1980s

When we perpetually had a 'little engine that could' team that could squeak into the playoffs and be the Cinderella special . Yet we rarely did and ended up going nowhere with mid level draft picks (and lousy uniforms too)

Our core is 34, 33 33 and 29 years old. They have won ONE playoff game in the last 3 years and probably wouldnt win another even if we made it this year.

Its delusional to think a core that old is just going to magically regain its 2011 form and be actual contenders. So , do we want to be Winnipeg ? Calgary? No.

Dump what we can and rebuild. Its called being honest with ourselves and caring about the franchise for the long term. We just had a good team for 13 years. We can handle not making the playoffs for a couple of years.

I really like the Colorado and Tampa mode of building. Make the playoffs but when you tank ,TANK to get the top 3 pick.

If you think cuddling up to nucknit or using multiple emoticons will help sell your 'plan' fill your boots.

I guess the genius in your plan is retaining the two 33 years olds, while shipping out an altogether ridiculous list of players....

Kesler, Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Hamhuis, Garrison, Bieksa, Edler and Luongo...

A couple of them 27 year olds - apparently that is now "aging" in today's NHL...

Why stop there?

Ironically you've retained the 29 year old Booth. What a genius exception to the rebuild.

And what about Richardson? The guy is pretty old.

[THERETOOL]

i don't see how we're going to be "all right" seeing as how we only have 22 games left and are currently sitting at 63 points.

even if you lowball and say 95 points will make it into the playoffs we still need to go 16-6. good luck with that

yeeaaaahhh .. but dont worry .. next year we will be awesome ... just trust mike gillis .. he's a genius

[DarthMelvin]

4/20....games won...injuries. ...management and owners say not to worry....lol even those injured were healthy didnt even produce. ...but hey dont want the playoff money its cool.

[BenDrinkin]

I think this injury-riddles season should make it easier for fans to accept us being sellers, and allow us to ship off players for picks. The writing is on the wall; this team is not competitive this season, so let's worry about next year.

[Baggins]

I think this injury-riddles season should make it easier for fans to accept us being sellers, and allow us to ship off players for picks. The writing is on the wall; this team is not competitive this season, so let's worry about next year.

Who exactly are we "selling"? Tanev? Booth? Gillis has recently reiterated he won't ask players to waive their ntc. Sellers tend to move players who are pending ufa's they don't intend to re-sign. That would be Albert, Santorelli and Diaz. You may as well keep drinking.

[Monty]

Gillis has recently reiterated he won't ask players to waive their ntc.

Asking players outright if they want to waive their NTC is one thing, asking an agent if he has any clients on the Canucks that would be willing to move is another.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Not to sound harsh but, It’s getting really ridiculous with people throwing out made up facts, pretending like they have a clue knowing what they are talking about.

They have won ONE playoff game in the last 3 2 years and probably wouldnt win another even if we made it this year.

Unless you want to count this year, where no teams have played a playoff game.

Also, If you’ve watched that many playoff series, you should easily understand that games in playoffs aren’t just won by the better team, so much luck is needed that can swing momentum and alter a series. What would the SJ series been like if Hansen didn’t miss the empty net in game two. It would have been a 1-1 series going back to California. Series is completely altered and no longer a cake walk.

Its delusional to think a core that old is just going to magically regain its 2011 form and be actual contenders. So , do we want to be Winnipeg ? Calgary? No.

You mean the jets who’ve missed the post season 12 out of the last 15 years (going back to Atlanta) they have picked in the top 10. (6 of them were #4 or better), and they are still fighting for a playoff spot going into year 16.

Calgary’s problem had nothing to do with holding on to Iginla a year or two too long. It had to do with 15 years of drafting and only getting 1 pick right in the first round. A pick who they later then traded and received nothing of future value in return (unless you consider stajan of any value)

Dump what we can and rebuild. Its called being honest with ourselves and caring about the franchise for the long term. We just had a good team for 13 years. We can handle not making the playoffs for a couple of years.

And here is the big kicker, what does a rebuild accomplish? Does it guarantee you a cup?

Where’s the Oilers, Toronto’s, Florida’s, Islander, Blue Jackets, and even Blues and Capitals

Or does all rebuilding accomplish, is the end result is hopefully build a team that consistently makes playoffs where you have a better chance to win the cup than if you consistently missed the playoffs. Unless you luck out and get sure thing draft picks (Kane, Toews, Crosby Malkin, Fleury), the teams that come out of a rebuild likely don’t result in a better team than we are currently icing (when healthy).

I don’t know if it was media or what that made everyone believe that rebuilding is this great thing that results in a sure cup, but rebuilding is not a good thing, Rebuilding is the last option a team has that consistently misses playoffs and has no other upcoming assets to improve the team, ie Calgary. So why would we go down that road right now, we have upcoming assets, we still can be a playoff team while we grow our prospect pool and slowing incorporate them into our lineup, Tanev, Stanton, Kassian, Lack, and somewhat Schroeder, are all starting points that are currently making an impact in the NHL. Add that with our pool of other prospects, Fox, Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Corrado. Why again would this team need to miss playoffs a few year to acquire more youth?

What does all this mean, if this team can consistently make the playoffs without mortgaging any future assets, than that is what this team should do. THAT is what the Detroit model is, who is in the same position we are, fighting for a final playoff spot, same spot they were in last year. Do they believe they can win the cup competing against the other top teams in the league even if they finished 8^th in the conference? You bet they do, but they are also bringing youth into their line up at the same time, giving them that experience to become solid NHL players. Just like the current Canucks line up is doing.

[pianoman13]

Getting sick of Daniel's replies

What do you want him to say?? Of course you can see he is frustrated... If it bugs you so much for some reason, then just dont listen to him.

[Aladeen]

Don't expect this team to base any decisions on what has happened in the first six weeks of 2014, no matter who miserable they were.

This guy is paid to write?

[etsen3]

He's right that these aren't the "real Canucks". Obviously we will bust the slump and we won't normally be this bad. Thing is, I doubt the "real Canucks" are good enough either.

[Baka]

Really apollo?

That nut job coach has something not a single member of your "pure talent" core does. A Stanley Cup ring.

The problem with talking out of your a$$ is that everything you say sounds like $#!+.

Coaches can be nut jobs and still win

See Ozzie Guillen. Utterly out of his mind but has won the World Series twice.

[70seven]

Are the Detroit Red wings "good enough". or should they trade away Datsyuk and Zetterberg for prospects and draft picks, and re-build because, "theyre not good enough"? SJ wasnt "good enough", but they made a couple moves and brought in some of their own youth, and now, theyre viewed as contenders again, with the same veteran core.

Detroit just started to involve their youngsters, and theyre begining to make a difference, while the core there is still in tact. THis is the route I believe the Canucks will take. They may make a move or two, specificly ones that may open up particular roster spots for next season, and possibly a significat one, but Id look to a free agent signing or two, while intergrading their young players in the lineup.

I can see the likes of Hansen and Booth getting moved, while possibly Edler at the high end of player movement, but I dont forsee any significant blow up unless a team comes knocking with a "no-brainer" type deal for a player who's willing to waive their NTC, and yes, unless its to their hometown, itd likely be to a strong contender. eg Kesler to Detroit or Chicago, which I dont think he's have any issue waiving.

[oeteman]

Extremely troubling to hear that the ownership feels the same way.

[Baggins]

Asking players outright if they want to waive their NTC is one thing, asking an agent if he has any clients on the Canucks that would be willing to move is another.

Asking a players agent is still asking to waive the ntc isn't it? He said he won't ask. He said he'll only consider the option at the players request.

"The Canucks GM says he doesn’t regret giving out so many NTC’s, he won’t ask players to waive them, but would listen if a player with a no-trade-clause asked to be traded. But Gillis also stated that no player has asked to be traded."

http://www.teamradio.ca/news/mike-gillis-on-henrik-hamhuis-and-no-trade-clauses/

That's from an interview 5 days ago.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I should leave it to you to pick your spots nicely when presenting an argument.

So you only name Flames prospects outside of the NHL but when you talk about the Canucks, you also conveniently include our roster players? That doesn't seem fair does it? LOL...way to pick and choose...

Yes Canucks do have the edge in numbers I admit, but we are really not much better. In fact its actually quite close. Time for you to take off your homer glasses...

You start off your post with this, then you do the exact same thing picking and choosing who you think is valuable or not.

I've posted this before but i'll do it again.

It really bothers me with people compare the Canucks current state to what the flames were 2 -4 years ago. Calgarys situation started years in the past with pour trading, retaining/ getting returns for assets and most importantly having an absolute terrible drafting record. Calgary has had a total of 14 first round pick between 1998 and 2012 (15 year span). As Burke has clearly stated this year when he fired Feaster, you HAVE to get the first round picks right. Lets take a look at the flames past first round choices.

98 Fata (6^th overall)

99 Saprykin (11^th overall)

00 Brent Krahn (9^th overall) He played a total of 1 NHL game

01 Kobasew (14^th overall)

02 Nystrom (10^th overall) Played 3 season with the flames then left as a free agent

03 Phaneuf (9^th overall)

04 Chucko (24^th overall) They had the 19^th overall and decided to trade back to 24^th -canucks drafted Schneider at 26^th

05 Pelech (26^th overall) He played a total of 7 NHL games

06 Irving (26^th overall) He played a total of 13 NHL games

07 Backlund (26^th overall) They had the 19^th overall and decided to trade back to 26^th

08 Nemisz (25^th overall) They had the 17^th (Jake Gardiner) overall and decided to trade back to 25^th

09 Erixon (24^th overall) They had the 20^th overall and decided to trade back to 24^th

10 Traded the 13^th overall to PHX for Jokinen

11 Bartschi (13^th overall)

12 Jankowski (21^st overall) They had the 14^th overall and decided to trade back to 21^st

As an example lets break down the Jankowski pick let’s look who Calgary missed on -

14^th-Zemgus Girgensons

15^th-Cody Ceci

16^th-Tom Wilson

17^th-Tomas Hertl

18^th-Teuvo Teravainen

19^th-Anderi Vasileveski

20^th-Scott Laughton

Other notables picked after 21^st; Olli Maata (22^nd), Malcon Subban (24^th) Brendan Gaunce (26^th)

People love to look at a year in Canucks history where we may have missed out on star players when we picked a bust right before. Well that’s what the flames did consistently year over year. Then the picks that they did get somewhat of a decent player (Nystrom/Kobasew) the either let go for nothing (free agency) or traded for a weak return. They really only got 1 pick right in that 15 year span and that was Phaneuf but again the return they got for him was extremely weak as only 1 player in that trade remains with the team today.

Flames were completely forced into a rebuid, they were not getting UFA's and they had zero young assets. It’s easy to point out the Iginla deal and compare that aging core to the Sedins but in reality that franchise was destined to fail. You can’t go over a 15 year span having only got 1 of your first round picks right, especially when you’re not a go to destination for UFA’s. You need that talent coming into the system from somewhere and when you’ve lost out on trades and draft picks for that length of time, all your valuable assets will dry up and you are left with where the flames are today a complete rebuild with a shallow prospect pool.

Canucks are far from that forced rebuild that the flames were in. We still have a top team in the league. It may not look like it considering our last 20 games but when heathly this team has shown they are a top team. We also do have the prospect pool whether you want to dismiss them as quality or not. Our teams draft history in all rounds has been substantailly better than the flames, we've also had far more success picking up undrafted talent, So for "Oldnews" to mention those players that you dismissed so fast, he has good reasoning for adding them our prospect pool list, we've have a better success record.

[aGENT]

Extremely troubling to hear that the ownership feels the same way.

I'm quite relieved (though not surprised) myself.

Ownership and management have a hell of a lot better handle on the situation than a bunch of misguided, reactionary, bi-polar, blinded-by-emotions fans who have a complete and utter lack of foresight or long term objectives in a very complicated, closed system that they can evidently hardly begin to ascertain.

They both knew this year was a crap shoot. Why would they be surprised that it's turned out exactly like one (particularly with the injuries we've had)? The real fun begins at the deadline and will likely get FAR more interesting in the summer.

[Jetliner]

I think we need to give this core a chance when everyones healthy n burrows doesnt hav that jaw protector hanging in front of his mouth. If we go on a 5 game losing streak when everyone healthy then we pull the plug and start a micro rebuild. Prob involve trading one of our top 3 dman or kesler. Personally I would like to see the sedins gone. No matter how good they r in the regular season, they cant carry us to the cup

[CanucksJay]

You're struggling with your facts CanucksJay and the parameters (as was clearly stated - under 25).

An actual source here as apparently you need some help with them.

http://www.hockeydb....0000432010.html

Giordano was 25.

Bouwmeester was 25.

Phaneuf was dealt to the Leafs.

Pardy was 25.

Prust was dealt to the Rangers.

So, to clarify once again - the Flames had Backlund, Brodie and Bouma under the age of 25.

You can add Nigel Dawes who was shipped to Atlanta, or Brett Sutter who'd go on to play 4 more games as a Flame if it pleases you.

If you'd think adding Bouwmeester and Giordano equalizes that gap between the franchises, I think you'd be looking through bullcrap stained glasses. Pardy went on to play 30 more games with the Flames.

Ironically, four years later, Bouwmeester, one of the guys you're hoping to include in that list of youth, is dealt as part of an aging core in the Flames actual 'rebuild'. Imo, that's about how strong your analogy is.

The thing is - if in those four years that transpired they'd actually managed to come up with a prospect or two to work into their lineup, things may not have been so bleak.

If you think the state of these organizations is "quite close" I'd say you're about as in tune with reality as your GM Feaster was.

MY GM? Sorry but my team is Vancouver and I despise the flames. Regardless, I can still see a lot of our moves are similar to the flames and call it as I see it. Contrary to your beliefs, You don't have to be a yes man to the organization to be a fan.

I'm sorry but u set the parameters for under 25 which made your argument more convenient. Yet u named lack on the canucks who is 26. I think having a roster player who is 25 and under is similar enough to under 25 in that they are just entering their prime. If you want to argue semantics to eliminate them from your list to make your argument seem stronger, by all means but really... Stop living in denial

[aGENT]

MY GM? Sorry but my team is Vancouver and I despise the flames. Regardless, I can still see a lot of our moves are similar to the flames and call it as I see it. Contrary to your beliefs, You don't have to be a yes man to the organization to be a fan.

I'm sorry but u set the parameters for under 25 which made your argument more convenient. Yet u named lack on the canucks who is 26. I think having a roster player who is 25 and under is similar enough to under 25 in that they are just entering their prime. If you want to argue semantics to eliminate them from your list to make your argument seem stronger, by all means but really... Stop living in denial

To be anything like the Flames we'd have to be clinging to 2011 for ANOTHER 5 years and selling off any and all prospect depth for those 5 years.

As the organization has already switched gears to building for the future (while retaining core vets and remaining competitive) as of last summer with the Schneider Trade, I see little chance of heading down that same path.

[oldnews]

To be anything like the Flames we'd have to be clinging to 2011 for ANOTHER 5 years and selling off any and all prospect depth for those 5 years.

As the organization has already switched gears to building for the future (while retaining core vets and remaining competitive) as of last summer with the Schneider Trade, I see little chance of heading down that same path.

Making too much sense and adding too much actual context, while highly reasonable, probably isn't going to crack through the thicknes nevertheless - (nor will enlarging the obvious) - this guy is fixed on his poopoo delusion.