aGENT Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: He's not likely going to be the impact top 6 powerforward ala Todd Bertuzzi that we were all hoping for. A realistic expectation for him would more likely be a third line energy guy that can hopefully pot 15-20 goals one day. People were expecting Bertuzzi? That's all some of us were Weber hoping for. A 40'ish point Jannik Hansen with size-esque, middle player would be fantastic IMO. And certainly still within reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Virtanen playing with Gaunce and Pelletier on his first shift. Virtanen talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said: I don't understand how you can say this with so much certainty though...Nylander might be at the same stage of his development as Virtanen is. Virtanen's ceiling may just not be as high as Nylander. For all we know Nylander is just getting started. Agreed and to add to this I would rather bet on the player that has shown steady progression to continue improving than one that has shown very little growth in his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said: I don't understand how you can say this with so much certainty though...Nylander might be at the same stage of his development as Virtanen is. Virtanen's ceiling may just not be as high as Nylander. For all we know Nylander is just getting started. I'm not declaring him a finished project. He'll almost certainly continue to improve. I don't know how you can argue he hasn't had a better development path and hence is further ahead. I thought that's what most of you were complaining about? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, canuckledraggin said: Virtanen playing with Gaunce and Pelletier on his first shift. Virtanen talk. Its a big game for Utica as well, so lets hope the above guy was right and Virtanen does have some "clutch" quality to his play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Just now, J.R. said: I'm not declaring him a finished project. He'll almost certainly continue to improve. I don't know how you can argue he hasn't had a better development path and hence is further ahead. I thought that's what most of you were complaining about? Lol "Closer to being a finished product" is what you said. I just don't understand how you can tell anyone what Nylander's ceiling is right now. Nylander is on pace for almost 60 points in a checking role as a rookie. For all we know he could be a 75-90 point centerman/winger in his prime. He's showed that improvement his whole career. Virtanen on the other hand has gotten worse year over year, at best stagnated. What evidence is there to suggest he'll get that much better when his history suggests his development has stalled/regressed...he might be closer to his ceiling than Nylander is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, J.R. said: People were expecting Bertuzzi? That's all some of us were Weber hoping for. A 40'ish point Jannik Hansen with size-esque, middle player would be fantastic IMO. And certainly still within reach. After he was drafted the expectations were much higher than another Jannik Hansen type. Expectations have fallen considerably since he was drafted. I don't know how anyone can say management didn't mess up when we chose a Hansen type player over players that will likely be point per game players in their careers. I like Hansen alot, but to ignore this teams desperate need for scoring like that just doesn't make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Just now, DeNiro said: After he was drafted the expectations were much higher than another Jannik Hansen type. Expectations have fallen considerably since he was drafted. I don't know how anyone can say management didn't mess up when we chose a Hansen type player over players that will likely be point per game players in their careers. I like Hansen alot, but to ignore this teams desperate need for scoring like that just doesn't make sense. Wasn't Hansen drafted in a round that doesn't even exist anymore? Surely expectations for a sixth overall pick must be higher than Hansen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 If all jake amounts too is a Hansen it's a big failure with what was left on the board 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said: "Closer to being a finished product" is what you said. I just don't understand how you can tell anyone what Nylander's ceiling is right now. Nylander is on pace for almost 60 points in a checking role as a rookie. For all we know he could be a 75-90 point centerman/winger in his prime. He's showed that improvement his whole career. Virtanen on the other hand has gotten worse year over year, at best stagnated. What evidence is there to suggest he'll get that much better when his history suggests his development has stalled/regressed...he might be closer to his ceiling than Nylander is. I didn't tell anyone what Nylander's ceiling was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: After he was drafted the expectations were much higher than another Jannik Hansen type. Expectations have fallen considerably since he was drafted. I don't know how anyone can say management didn't mess up when we chose a Hansen type player over players that will likely be point per game players in their careers. I like Hansen alot, but to ignore this teams desperate need for scoring like that just doesn't make sense. A Hansen with size who can physically intimidate teams I'll take on my team any day, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, J.R. said: A Hansen with size who can physically intimidate teams I'll take on my team any day, thanks. Hey I'd take that player too. Not with a 6th overall pick though, maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick. Either way, it didn't address our real needs, which is lack of scoring. It's nice grinding it out and getting "moral victories", but all that really matters is what's on the scoreboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, J.R. said: A Hansen with size who can physically intimidate teams I'll take on my team any day, thanks. Yeah who wouldn't but not at sixth overall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Hey I'd take that player too. Not with a 6th overall pick though, maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick. Either way, it didn't address our real needs, which is lack of scoring. It's nice grinding it out and getting "moral victories", but all that really matters is what's on the scoreboard. You sell Hansen far too short. Never mind if he added 30'ish pounds of muscle. Yeah who wouldn't but not at sixth overall Seriously, have you guys even looked at historic 6th overall picks? Edited February 8, 2017 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: After he was drafted the expectations were much higher than another Jannik Hansen type. Expectations have fallen considerably since he was drafted. I don't know how anyone can say management didn't mess up when we chose a Hansen type player over players that will likely be point per game players in their careers. I like Hansen alot, but to ignore this teams desperate need for scoring like that just doesn't make sense. As long as were living in hindsight. What if we passed on consensus BPA Virtanen local born PF the likes of which this team and fan base was/is screaming for and he went on to have success somewhere else and we were stuk with puny Ehlers getting pushed around everywhere looking like Mason Raymond. You never know how things are gonna play out. We drafted the guy that fit our biggest need at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, J.R. said: Seriously, have you guys even looked at historic 6th overall picks? This pick is controversial because of who was picked after him without the use of hindsight, not because of his position at 6OA. But I'm sure you knew that already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Hey I'd take that player too. Not with a 6th overall pick though, maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick. Either way, it didn't address our real needs, which is lack of scoring. It's nice grinding it out and getting "moral victories", but all that really matters is what's on the scoreboard. So you would have passed on Horvat too then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, J.R. said: You sell Hansen far too short. Never mind if he added 30'ish pounds of muscle. Seriously, have you guys even looked at historic 6th overall picks? Hansen is a great player, I already said that. You can't be happy taking a player with a career high 39 points 6th overall though. I could care less what the historical 6th overall picks did. Sean Monahan scored 30 goals in his second season and was drafted 6th overall a year before Virtanen. Benning is supposed to be a master scout and he passed on two players that would currently be leading our team in points. That can't be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky mitts Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 The problem i had with the pick also at the time is you never saw elite potential in jake , a potential very good player but not elite potential which nylander and ehlers had displayed at the time of the draft , not just in regards to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Hansen is a great player, I already said that. You can't be happy taking a player with a career high 39 points 6th overall though. I could care less what the historical 6th overall picks did. Sean Monahan scored 30 goals in his second season and was drafted 6th overall a year before Virtanen. Benning is supposed to be a master scout and he passed on two players that would currently be leading our team in points. That can't be ignored. How many goals and assists does Tkatchuk have, another 6th overall pick? The expectations for a sixth over all pick should be high. Calgary, like you say DeNiro, are building their next core of forwards around such picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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