Alflives Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Judging by posts like this nobody gets what goes into managing a team.. he turned over the roster in under three years. If that's not rebuilding I don't know what is. And what do you expect the guy to say!?!? We are not competing ever year!?!? Any good Gm will say they are going to compete. Ugh this fan base is intolerable He didn't turn over the central players of the previous core. All JB did was manage around that old core. Now, he is actually moving out pieces of the old core. He was retooling, not rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Alflives said: He didn't turn over the central players of the previous core. All JB did was manage around that old core. Now, he is actually moving out pieces of the old core. He was retooling, not rebuilding. If you don't know what really happened over the last many years you never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ39 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Benning has been slowly rebuilding since he got here.. Our goalies and D men are in pretty good shape for the future. He's done a great job building the forward prospect pool and bringing in young guys who are NHL ready. He knows what he's doing, blowing up the team isn't always the best thing to do. But most Canucks fans are always going to criticize what management is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 53 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Judging by posts like this nobody gets what goes into managing a team.. he turned over the roster in under three years. If that's not rebuilding I don't know what is. And what do you expect the guy to say!?!? We are not competing ever year!?!? Any good Gm will say they are going to compete. Ugh this fan base is intolerable Before you get your panties in knot...my post was not 'slagging'JB,and I totally understand that he cannot concede to the public that his team has given up...What is evident,though,is the' rebuilding while trying to make the playoffs' mantra is toast..We are not competing to be 'wildcard fodder' anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 27 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: Before you get your panties in knot...my post was not 'slagging'JB,and I totally understand that he cannot concede to the public that his team has given up...What is evident,though,is the' rebuilding while trying to make the playoffs' mantra is toast..We are not competing to be 'wildcard fodder' anymore. Same mantra bud, just because he traded a guy we would have lost for nothing.. And a ufa who increased his value nicley doesn't mean anything has changed.. They will still try every year to make the playoffs, like any professional team should. As JB said today.. They've known for a long time what has been needed.. But they will not rush things for the sake of pleasing fans who demand an overnight turnaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweathog Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Benning has quietly done an amazing job building our team for the future. Our future D, which was a major cause for concern less than 2 years ago, is now a strength. (And that's not even counting drafting the best dman in a deep draft last summer) Our goaltending is set with Demko. Our forward prospects just got deeper, and will be even deeper after the entry draft. The future, which looked so bleak when Gillis got fired, seems a lot brighter thanks to Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Baggins said: He's been rebuilding all along. Don't know why so many have trouble understanding that. I think Botchford has the correct view in today's Province, which is that Benning has turned 180 degrees, not that he has been "rebuilding all along". I realize that CDC contains a lot of fans who want to believe in their team but a team that is genuinely rebuilding does not sign UFA like Miller, Vrbata, and Eriksson or trade away draft picks for guys who can help the team now. Here is the first part of Botchford's article. [start quote] BEST FLIP The retool is dead. Long live the rebuild. Benning essentially said he’s spent enough time trying, mostly unsuccessfully, to squeeze the most out of the Sedins final years, and the veterans who once surrounded them. He has seen the light, and suggested, finally, he is ready to do a 180 on the path he wanted to take when he first got into office and has the constitution required to gut this pig. It’s easy to say this week. The team fell so far out of the playoff race, trading veterans was a no brainer. But this organization has changed the goal posts before and is currently staring at $20 million in cap space heading into next season Does this front office have the resolve it will take to pass on chasing expensive, over-the-hill free agent anchors, pursuing the second wild card spot yet again? Are they really ready, in their heart of hearts, to embrace an all-in rebuild? “I think that’s where we’re at as an organization,” Benning explained. “I think I’ve been patient with a lot of these players. “They kind of went through and were part of those real good Canuck teams. “Now, we need to shift our focus and get this next group of players up and going that we’re going to be competitive and win with.” That’s one new mission statement. [end of quote] The question is, Can Benning pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, TheOgRook said: Same mantra bud, just because he traded a guy we would have lost for nothing.. And a ufa who increased his value nicley doesn't mean anything has changed.. They will still try every year to make the playoffs, like any professional team should. As JB said today.. They've known for a long time what has been needed.. But they will not rush things for the sake of pleasing fans who demand an overnight turnaround. Who said anything about demanding an 'overnight turnaround'.?..It wasn't me....!...Things have changed,you won't see any big UFA signings like we did with Eriksson last off season (that's not looking so good right now)...We are now 'officially'a rebuilding team..It's not pretty,but you have to a step back,before you move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 15 minutes ago, JamesB said: I think Botchford has the correct view in today's Province, which is that Benning has turned 180 degrees, not that he has been "rebuilding all along". I realize that CDC contains a lot of fans who want to believe in their team but a team that is genuinely rebuilding does not sign UFA like Miller, Vrbata, and Eriksson or trade away draft picks for guys who can help the team now. Here is the first part of Botchford's article. [start quote] BEST FLIP The retool is dead. Long live the rebuild. Benning essentially said he’s spent enough time trying, mostly unsuccessfully, to squeeze the most out of the Sedins final years, and the veterans who once surrounded them. He has seen the light, and suggested, finally, he is ready to do a 180 on the path he wanted to take when he first got into office and has the constitution required to gut this pig. It’s easy to say this week. The team fell so far out of the playoff race, trading veterans was a no brainer. But this organization has changed the goal posts before and is currently staring at $20 million in cap space heading into next season Does this front office have the resolve it will take to pass on chasing expensive, over-the-hill free agent anchors, pursuing the second wild card spot yet again? Are they really ready, in their heart of hearts, to embrace an all-in rebuild? “I think that’s where we’re at as an organization,” Benning explained. “I think I’ve been patient with a lot of these players. “They kind of went through and were part of those real good Canuck teams. “Now, we need to shift our focus and get this next group of players up and going that we’re going to be competitive and win with.” That’s one new mission statement. [end of quote] The question is, Can Benning pull it off. I am not a fan of Botchford,but I agree with this..Benning has had the "OK" to rip it down...I believe that he was somewhat hamstrung by the 'serving two masters at once'program..They tried it,it didn't work...I think that the rapid decline of the Sedins this year, pretty much forced the decision.(which is a good thing). I think Benning can pull it off..The bigger question is whether Francesco Aqualini thinks he can pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOgRook Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 15 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: Who said anything about demanding an 'overnight turnaround'.?..It wasn't me....!...Things have changed,you won't see any big UFA signings like we did with Eriksson last off season (that's not looking so good right now)...We are now 'officially'a rebuilding team..It's not pretty,but you have to a step back,before you move forward. 30 minutes ago, JamesB said: I think Botchford has the correct view in today's Province, which is that Benning has turned 180 degrees, not that he has been "rebuilding all along". I realize that CDC contains a lot of fans who want to believe in their team but a team that is genuinely rebuilding does not sign UFA like Miller, Vrbata, and Eriksson or trade away draft picks for guys who can help the team now. Here is the first part of Botchford's article. [start quote] BEST FLIP The retool is dead. Long live the rebuild. Benning essentially said he’s spent enough time trying, mostly unsuccessfully, to squeeze the most out of the Sedins final years, and the veterans who once surrounded them. He has seen the light, and suggested, finally, he is ready to do a 180 on the path he wanted to take when he first got into office and has the constitution required to gut this pig. It’s easy to say this week. The team fell so far out of the playoff race, trading veterans was a no brainer. But this organization has changed the goal posts before and is currently staring at $20 million in cap space heading into next season Does this front office have the resolve it will take to pass on chasing expensive, over-the-hill free agent anchors, pursuing the second wild card spot yet again? Are they really ready, in their heart of hearts, to embrace an all-in rebuild? “I think that’s where we’re at as an organization,” Benning explained. “I think I’ve been patient with a lot of these players. “They kind of went through and were part of those real good Canuck teams. “Now, we need to shift our focus and get this next group of players up and going that we’re going to be competitive and win with.” That’s one new mission statement. [end of quote] The question is, Can Benning pull it off. Sorry but you lost most of us at Botchturd wrote this article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, JamesB said: I think Botchford has the correct view in today's Province, which is that Benning has turned 180 degrees, not that he has been "rebuilding all along". I realize that CDC contains a lot of fans who want to believe in their team but a team that is genuinely rebuilding does not sign UFA like Miller, Vrbata, and Eriksson or trade away draft picks for guys who can help the team now. Here is the first part of Botchford's article. [......] The question is, Can Benning pull it off. I think its quite clear that Benning has been rebuilding all along. People complain that trading draft picks ect are a waste and so on. But with basicaly nothing to work with besides the last Gillis draft he has done quite well. Flipping 2nd and 3rd picks ect for players drafted in the last couple years has worked out well because we have several players developed enough to actually play now with Horvat and the Sedins ie Granlund, Baertschi, Gudbranson. Obviously some misses too like Vey, Clendening and Pedan. However its a better success rate than expected out of those picks in the draft. It also doesnt hurt anything to sign players like Vrbata and Miller. They take some pressure off our young players and we don't turn our prospect system into a wasteland like Edmonton. We still ended up with picks in the top end at the draft and outlr players actually play like they are expected to compete and win. It is pretty obvious when you look at "rebuilding" teams that go full tank ie Edmonton, Colorado, Buffalo ect that its hard to teach the kids to win afterwards. They just learned how to make a paycheck and can't always get back to the compete side of things afterwards. Obviously you need some star players but that isn't the only thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 4 hours ago, JamesB said: I think Botchford has the correct view in today's Province, which is that Benning has turned 180 degrees, not that he has been "rebuilding all along". I realize that CDC contains a lot of fans who want to believe in their team but a team that is genuinely rebuilding does not sign UFA like Miller, Vrbata, and Eriksson or trade away draft picks for guys who can help the team now. ... We have signed UFAs to replace other veterans we've moved from the previous core, and he's only really traded picks for young players who can be part of the future of the team. He recognized early on that we still need help with the transition, and as he's tried to gain assets by moving older players, he's tried to either keep pieces of the core that can help bring in the new leaders of our future core or at least keep the team in games most nights. Miller helped bring Markstrom along, Vrbata filled a desperate need for scoring, Eriksson at least has been strong in his two way game even if he has yet to help carry the top 6. The first two particularly were pretty short term moves, reasonable term even if a bit expensive, while Eriksson can be a veteran presence past the Sedins, but they all cost us nothing but cap space. The fact remains he's slowly been moving out older players and moving younger players in. If that's not a type of rebuild, to the point where he's turned over most of the roster, then I don't know what is. If he'd gotten a return for Vrbata and Hamhuis, would we have been having this same discussion last year? Would we feel like it was such a change to see Burrows and Hansen moving this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, elvis15 said: We have signed UFAs to replace other veterans we've moved from the previous core, and he's only really traded picks for young players who can be part of the future of the team. He recognized early on that we still need help with the transition, and as he's tried to gain assets by moving older players, he's tried to either keep pieces of the core that can help bring in the new leaders of our future core or at least keep the team in games most nights. Miller helped bring Markstrom along, Vrbata filled a desperate need for scoring, Eriksson at least has been strong in his two way game even if he has yet to help carry the top 6. The first two particularly were pretty short term moves, reasonable term even if a bit expensive, while Eriksson can be a veteran presence past the Sedins, but they all cost us nothing but cap space. The fact remains he's slowly been moving out older players and moving younger players in. If that's not a type of rebuild, to the point where he's turned over most of the roster, then I don't know what is. If he'd gotten a return for Vrbata and Hamhuis, would we have been having this same discussion last year? Would we feel like it was such a change to see Burrows and Hansen moving this year? Well said Elvis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 10 hours ago, Baggins said: He's been rebuilding all along. Don't know why so many have trouble understanding that. Exactly what my thoughts are. We've reached the next, necessary phase - beginning to shed more of the old core and ntcs that have been handcuffing our leap forward. Next phase of the rebuild, Edler and the Sedins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 To me, the destinction between the "rebuild/retool while competing for a playoff spot" and the new "full rebuild" from this deadline week is JB made moves that make us worse this season, for long term benefit. His previous moves have been more "to help the team today and into the future". And I agree there is a difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 23 hours ago, Alflives said: Twins, Edler, Tanev, Burr, and Hansen all (until this TDL) are left over from the old core group - led by the twins. Kesler was part of the old core, who demanded a trade. JB was (until this TDL) retooling around the old core. Now he is rebuilding. At 27 I wouldn't really include Tanev in the "old core" label. He's really current core. He was a rookie, not a core player, for the 2011 cup run. Guess you don't remember the part about Kesler asking for a trade because he didn't want to go through a rebuild. He wanted to compete for the cup instead. Benning moved the old core out slowly for the reason I already stated - no prospect pool. It's also the reason he made trades for guys like Vey, Etem, Baertschi, and Granlund. You move everybody out at once and who replaces them all when you have no prospect pool? I suppose the Skille's and Bartkowski's of free agency. No Alf, he hasn't been retooling around the old core. He's been phasing the old core out and replacing them with youth while building a up prospect pool. I don't know about you but when a team starts moving older players out and replacing them with young guys it sounds suspiciously like a rebuild to me. There's 3 core guys left from the 2011 cup run and two will retire here. In the first two years traded Kesler, Garrison, Bieksa, and bought out Booth and Higgins. Tried to move Vrbata and Hamhuis. Let Hamhuis walk after acquiring the much younger Gudbranson. But hey, we're not rebuilding......well not until Burrows (who many wanted bought out last year because he was untradeable) and Hansen get traded. Give your head a shake. We've been rebuilding all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Baggins said: At 27 I wouldn't really include Tanev in the "old core" label. He's really current core. He was a rookie, not a core player, for the 2011 cup run. Guess you don't remember the part about Kesler asking for a trade because he didn't want to go through a rebuild. He wanted to compete for the cup instead. Benning moved the old core out slowly for the reason I already stated - no prospect pool. It's also the reason he made trades for guys like Vey, Etem, Baertschi, and Granlund. You move everybody out at once and who replaces them all when you have no prospect pool? I suppose the Skille's and Bartkowski's of free agency. No Alf, he hasn't been retooling around the old core. He's been phasing the old core out and replacing them with youth while building a up prospect pool. I don't know about you but when a team starts moving older players out and replacing them with young guys it sounds suspiciously like a rebuild to me. There's 3 core guys left from the 2011 cup run and two will retire here. In the first two years traded Kesler, Garrison, Bieksa, and bought out Booth and Higgins. Tried to move Vrbata and Hamhuis. Let Hamhuis walk after acquiring the much younger Gudbranson. But hey, we're not rebuilding......well not until Burrows (who many wanted bought out last year because he was untradeable) and Hansen get traded. Give your head a shake. We've been rebuilding all along. Even TL, on the radio earlier today (or late last night) didn't use the word 'rebuild'. Management is still refusing to openly state they are doing anything more than 'retool'. We shall see this summer if their actions are ones of retooling (signing another older UFA to term, like Errikson, to supplement the old core) or actions of rebuilding (trading away more of the old core, like Edler) I still don't 100% trust this management group to rebuild, while we have the Twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 3/1/2017 at 11:55 AM, xereau said: Jim's tactic is picking up discarded high forward picks oozing with potential, while a D corps matures. Some will be hits, some will be misses, but one thing is for sure, they will come together right around the same time as our D starts to dominate again. Back end out, is the strategy. nicely put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 On 3/1/2017 at 2:45 PM, Alflives said: He didn't turn over the central players of the previous core. All JB did was manage around that old core. Now, he is actually moving out pieces of the old core. He was retooling, not rebuilding. What kesler wasn't the old core? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbriggs Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 22 hours ago, JamesB said: I think Botchford has the correct view in today's Province, which is that Benning has turned 180 degrees, not that he has been "rebuilding all along". I realize that CDC contains a lot of fans who want to believe in their team but a team that is genuinely rebuilding does not sign UFA like Miller, Vrbata, and Eriksson or trade away draft picks for guys who can help the team now. Here is the first part of Botchford's article. [start quote] BEST FLIP The retool is dead. Long live the rebuild. Benning essentially said he’s spent enough time trying, mostly unsuccessfully, to squeeze the most out of the Sedins final years, and the veterans who once surrounded them. He has seen the light, and suggested, finally, he is ready to do a 180 on the path he wanted to take when he first got into office and has the constitution required to gut this pig. It’s easy to say this week. The team fell so far out of the playoff race, trading veterans was a no brainer. But this organization has changed the goal posts before and is currently staring at $20 million in cap space heading into next season Does this front office have the resolve it will take to pass on chasing expensive, over-the-hill free agent anchors, pursuing the second wild card spot yet again? Are they really ready, in their heart of hearts, to embrace an all-in rebuild? “I think that’s where we’re at as an organization,” Benning explained. “I think I’ve been patient with a lot of these players. “They kind of went through and were part of those real good Canuck teams. “Now, we need to shift our focus and get this next group of players up and going that we’re going to be competitive and win with.” That’s one new mission statement. [end of quote] The question is, Can Benning pull it off. The answer is Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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