[Discussion] Why Don't We Recreate 2011?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Ever since the 2011 Finals loss to the Bruins, the media and management in Vancouver have always been about slightly retooling and rebuilding the Canucks to be a tougher breed of players. It has almost been a stigma or voodoo to try and emulate that dominant team for whatever reason. They were one of the best teams the league has seen in a while, most GF and GA, two of the best forwards in the league at the time, some very good defencemen, great depth, a monstrous powerplay and a great goalie. I doubt Vancouver will see a powerhouse like that again. Since the 2011 loss, there's been plenty of restructuring to try and make the team tougher, but my question is, why don't we try and emulate the 2011 success?

 

In today's NHL, where speed and skill are trumping toughness big-time, that trend that we had in 2011 is coming back. I'm certain that the 2010-2011 and even 2011-2012 Canucks would have won a Cup if it had been 5 years later. Here is a video of every single goal scored in the 2011 season:

 

 

Watching this, it's obvious what we had that were our main success points:

1) The Sedins - absolutely dominant every single game, amazing horizontal passing, they still had great speed and Daniel had a lethal shot.

2) Great two-way 2nd line center in Kesler

3) Amazing speedy depth. Watching Samuelsson, Raymond, Torres, Hansen and Burrows skate rings around the other teams in all these goals is pretty impressive

4) Gritty guys who can score. Burrows, Torres, Malhotra, Higgins and Lapierre. These bottom-6 guys who can score big goals is what it takes to win in the playoffs.

5) Great puck moving defencemen. We had Ehrhoff and Edler for most of the season. Bieksa and Salo contributed a fair bit and even Hamhuis could skate well at the time.

6) Booming point shots that got through. The number of point shots or tips in front from the blueline in these goals ins unreal. Ehrhoff was the best, Edler was pretty good, Hamhuis and Bieksa on their game could all do it and of course Salo was one of the best in the league in his prime.

7) Deadly powerplay. I suppose this really is a combination of the above points, in particular the Sedins' passing and the point shots. We never had a big body in front to screen goalies, but you can put anyone in front of the net and you're going to score goals with those point men and down-low passing. Recipe for success

8) One of the league's best goalies in Luongo, and a damn good backup in Schneider

9) A good playoff coach. Say what you want about AV but he got the most offensively and defensively out of every single player. One of the best coaches to coach in the NHL.

 

Obviously, the Canucks of today are far from the 2010-2011 Canucks, but what would it take to get us back to this style of play? Let's have a look and see what we have in the pipeline, and most importantly, where they'll sit in 3-5 years time when they're in the prime and we're wanting to contend for the Cup again:

 

1) Pettersson and Dahlen: No, not the Sedins, but if we try hard enough we could emulate the Sedins' success through these two Swedes and really brew their chemistry in the SHL. I doubt either score 100 points ever, but in their prime if they can skate well, playmake well and score goals the way Daniel did, it'll be as good as it gets.

2) Two-way center in Horvat. I'm sure that in Horvat's prime, he'll be as good if not better than 40-goal, 70 point Kesler.

3) Speedy depth: We've already got this with Boeser, Granlund and Baertschi, not to mention Goldobin. Plenty of speed and skill there.

4) Gritty guys who can score: I don't see much of this in our future, but they can always be supplemented by UFAs. Virtanen and Gadjovich are in the pipeline but who knows how much they'll be able to score at the NHL level.

5) Puck moving defencemen: This is where we're in a bit of trouble. Yes, we have Juolevi who can maybe emulate 2011 Edler's success. We have Hutton and Stecher who are some nice skating D-men and hopefully can hit 40+ points in their prime. My concern is that we don't have a 2011 Ehrhoff. We don't have a 2011 Sami Salo. Gudbranson might replace 2011 Bieksa, but we need those top puck moving guys who can bomb shots from the point to generate offence that way. Watching the goals above, Ehrhoff was one of our MVPs and generated so much offence from the blueline out of absolutely nothing. I'm not sure if Juolevi is that guy, but when we had Edler and Ehrhoff in their prime as 50 point D-men, they were deadly. This is the biggest hole I think we need to address. 

6) Point shots: Like I said before, we don't have anyone in our system with a decent point shot. Wiercioch has a bomb but he's a fringe NHLer right now. Let's hope Juolevi's been working on his, but we need at least a few deadly point shots. Stecher can really hammer it if he works on it and Hutton often shoots wide so I really hope we can generate shots through these guys.

7) Powerplay: I think with Pettersson, Dahlen, Boeser and Horvat in their primes we'll have some fantastic powerplay forwards. We really need some elite defencemen to round this out. Juolevi on the PP will be a nice touch but we're still missing that booming slapshot. 

8) Goalie: I'm not too concerned by this. Demko is one of if not the best young goalie in the league. Nilsson and Markstrom are both wildcards who will serve as a good backup to Demko when he's in his prime in 5 years time.

9) Coach: This will really depend at the time, but hopefully we've struck gold with Green. Otherwise we can always sign a guy who gets canned later.

 

 

 

TL;DR - I say we try and emulate the 2011 Canucks, and we're not far off really. We just need some good depth gritty guys who can score (role players like Higgins, Lapierre, Torres), and most importantly, defencemen who can shoot the puck well from the point, skate well and produce 40-50 points in their prime. Knock the 2011 taboo, they were the best team in the league for a reason, let's get back to playing that way and we'll win a Cup in 3-5 years time.

 

[Nucker 67]

I enjoyed your summary, and I agree that the Canucks still need a top notch puck-moving D. Maybe they get him at next year's draft (Rasmus Dahlin). I really like what Benning has done so far, he's covering all of the bases by bringing in players (prospects) that have speed and skill, he's drafted two very good goalies, the Juolevi pick will pay off, and I love the Gadjovich pick. Would've been nice to land Makar this year, but who knows, maybe Rathbone becomes a star  Okay, it's a stretch, but you never know.

 

[ILL BILL NECRO]

Speed, Skill and defenceman who can score? My god why has nobody thought of this before.... 

[Ferlands_Head]

Not taking anything away from the 2011 squad but they were way too reliant on the power play. They were a great team but not the best 5 on 5.

 

They also seemed a bit fragile mentally. Almost getting reverse swept by Chicago was embarrassing. 

 

We lacked the depth to roll 4 lines.

 

We had a great 1st line. Ryan Kesler basically was the 2nd line. Usually played with scrubs like Raymond and Higgins. 3rd line was good with Lappy Hansen n Torres. 4th line was non existent. 

 

 

 

[logic]

1 minute ago, Gudbransons_Elbow said:

Not taking anything away from the 2011 squad but they were way too reliant on the power play. They were a great team but not the best 5 on 5.

 

They also seemed a bit fragile mentally. Almost getting reverse swept by Chicago was embarrassing. 

 

We lacked the depth to roll 4 lines.

 

We had a great 1st line. Ryan Kesler basically was the 2nd line. Usually played with scrubs like Raymond and Higgins. 3rd line was good with Lappy Hansen n Torres. 4th line was non existent. 

 

 

 

noob. Raymond and Higgins were both legit middle 6 players on any team in the league during 10-11

[Chris12345]

Well for starters they lost....

[ItsMillerTime]

John Shorthouse seemed to be a lot more excited maybe we get him to do that.

[Hectic]

Love the thread. But one thing that Canucks fans seem to forget about is this: Anything can happen in the playoffs. 

 

Yes, we tried to make some changes after 2011 to try and get tougher (example being Hodgson for Kassian trade.. bad example though since there were other reasons for the deal), but at the end of the day, my point is that anything can happen in the playoffs. 

 

Nashville shut out Chicago in the United Centre.. both games. Toronto almost took Washington to game 7.. and OT almost every game. Ottawa almost made the cup finals.. again they took the Pens to OT. 

 

 Canucks lost Hamhuis, Samuelsson, and Raymond to injury, and Kesler wasn't 100% (but again.. most players aren't.. because anything can happen in the playoffs!). We were terrible on the road in the series vs Boston.. but who could have predicted that? Of course there's 20/20 hindsight that some fans probably had at the beginning of the season, where they probably wanted us to fire AV because we lost to Chicago twice in a row. All I'm saying is that in the NHL, despite what some of us may think, there's so much parity that any team can win on any given night. Same thing in the playoffs. One this is for sure though.. The Avs are going to be brutal this year. Or maybe they'll make the playoffs.. anything can happen!*

 

So moral of the story is that I agree that the Canucks should try to build a team similar to the 2011 team which is looks like we are trying to do. But instead of tanking and trying to get a better pick, I strongly feel that the best way to build the team is to make the playoffs because the young players improve because of that experience. And once making the playoffs it's a toss up. 

 

*Except the Avs making the playoffs. Anything can happen, except the Avs making the playoffs. 

[luckylager]

10 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Well for starters they lost....

My sentiments exactly.

 

Because that team just wasn't good enough.

 

and riots

[Katobaron]

26 minutes ago, ILL BILL NECRO said:

Speed, Skill and defenceman who can score? My god why has nobody thought of this before.... 

Snarky sarcastic fan base?

 

Check!

[Grape]

51 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

even Hamhuis could skate well at the time.

 

Hamhuis was an elite skater until recently, especially with his edge work, so I wouldn't say "even" Hamhuis could skate well.

[189lb enforcers?]

Rather it be 2003

 

[Putgolzin]

I agree generally.

I disagree with the "great playoff coach" bit. Loved AV, still do. But he wasn't a great coach come playoff time.

He tries so hard to defend a lead that we watched Chicago come from behind in 3 consecutive series (we eventually won the third one) before watching the same thing happen with Boston. 

[Ferlands_Head]

42 minutes ago, logic said:

noob. Raymond and Higgins were both legit middle 6 players on any team in the league during 10-11

Ok I took it too far when I called them scrubs lol. What I meant was they don't belong on a contending team's top 6. Raymond had 2G in 24 games in the playoffs and Higgins 4 in 25. Barely even middle 6 production. 

[Riviera82]

35 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Well for starters they lost....

Yes. That and the fact they never came close before or after that 1 season.

 

From my point of view that edition of the Canucks were not really built for the playoffs, and I say that because legitimate contenders in this day and age make more than a single deep run in their life-cycle. The problem as I see it is that too many of the Canucks premier players were at their best during the regular season and didn't have that "extra gear" consistently enough during the postseason. 

 

So yes, why dont we recreate 2011? Just this time do it with players who are at their best when the games mean the most.

[Putgolzin]

7 minutes ago, Riviera82 said:

Yes. That and the fact they never came close before or after that 1 season.

 

From my point of view that edition of the Canucks were not really built for the playoffs, and I say that because legitimate contenders in this day and age make more than a single deep run in their life-cycle. The problem as I see it is that too many of the Canucks premier players were at their best during the regular season and didn't have that "extra gear" consistently enough during the postseason. 

 

So yes, why dont we recreate 2011? Just this time do it with players who are at their best when the games mean the most.

Good points.

As they were improving each year I kept comparing them to earlier Detroit seasons and saying they still didn't have that machinery-like dominating and crushing. Towards the end of the 2011 regular season the Canucks finally had it. They just couldn't keep it going through the playoffs...

[Riviera82]

1 minute ago, nzan said:

Good points.

As they were improving each year I kept comparing them to earlier Detroit seasons and saying they still didn't have that machinery-like dominating and crushing. Towards the end of the 2011 regular season the Canucks finally had it. They just couldn't keep it going through the playoffs...

That's right. Even Toews said that his Blackhawks were going to expose the Canucks for what they really were in that first round in 2011. They ended up losing as we all know but I think we were successfully exposed anyways. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I agree that the 2011 weren't a perfect team AT THAT TIME and that era, because unfortunately the playoffs were dominated by physical play. The 2010-2013 era was really dominated by strong physical play. The cups the Bruins, Kings and Blackhawks all won during that time were fueled through great two-way top centers, hot goalies and very big gritty forwards. The Kings were relentless physically. The Bruins were obviously all goons. Even when the Blackhawks won their first cups, they had loads of beef in their lineup with Byfuglien, Bickell etc. playing major roles.

 

I think since then, the league has changed a lot. We saw it plenty last year. It's due to slight, subtle rule changes, the way the games are reffed and "controlled" and most importantly, the evolution of young players being more NHL-ready right out of junior. The league is becoming much faster and skill is dominating now for these reasons IMO. Whether that's fueled by the league management or what viewers wants is hard to say, but there's an undeniable trend towards skill and away from toughness. We saw that in the last two playoff years. Pittsburgh dominated just about every team and they barely have a tough guy in their lineup. Their skill really took over and their young speedy kids helped them win cups, not to mention two generational centers and a red-hot goalie. Meanwhile the gritty, slower teams really struggled to even make the playoffs.

 

I'm adamant that the 2011 Canucks would have won a couple of cups if they were playing today, purely because of the trend in the league. It's a shame we've always been a year or two off, but this is what it is now. Who knows what the trend will be in another 3-5 years time, but one can only assume it'll be towards skill and speed even moreso. Kids are bigger these days, faster, and break into the league with more skill than previously. 

 

With that in mind, I think if we really focus again on the powerplay, speed and puck moving defencemen who can get heavy shots through traffic, we'll have a new powerhouse on our hands. If we're going to beat better teams like the Leafs, Oilers, Flyers and Jets etc., it'll be through the opportunistic powerplay just the way the 2011 Canucks did it. You don't see big hits or retribution fights anymore. You see dominant powerplays bury teams. This is what we need the most work on in the future, and for me it all starts with decent offensive defencemen who can skate, shoot and pass well.

 

How do we get there? I'd make a trade if I were JB. Throw a 20-something year old winger to a team going to the playoffs for an A-grade defensive prospect. We need to make a Drouin-for-Sergachev like trade.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

I personally think we were that close in 2010....Sundin was JUST getting into speed (Much as it pains for me to say about an ex-Leaf - hey I still cheered Paul Henderson when he scored those goals for Team Canada in 1972 ), IMHO, he was one of our better forwards that post-season.  If not for that errant Mitchell brain fart......

 

Unfortunately, as cliche' as it sounds....sometimes the margin between defeat & winning is just that small...

[WeneedLumme]

11 minutes ago, Riviera82 said:

Yes. That and the fact they never came close before or after that 1 season.

 

From my point of view that edition of the Canucks were not really built for the playoffs, and I say that because legitimate contenders in this day and age make more than a single deep run in their life-cycle. The problem as I see it is that too many of the Canucks premier players were at their best during the regular season and didn't have that "extra gear" consistently enough during the postseason. 

 

So yes, why dont we recreate 2011? Just this time do it with players who are at their best when the games mean the most.

Yes, with the way the game is officiated in the playoffs, a team that is heavy on skill but light on grit, one that relies on a power play that seldom sees the ice in the playoffs, has a real uphill battle to the Cup. The Canucks need more Lindens and Ohlunds, playoff warriors who will dig deeper when it really matters (he'll play on crutches!).

 

That's the reason why JB focuses on character, because the character kids are the ones who, like Bo, will put in whatever work it takes to exceed everybody's expectations, and who you just know, will not disappear when the going gets tough.

 

Those kids, JB's mid to late round draft picks who are always captains of their teams - if one of them gets a shot in the playoffs due to injuries, how big a shock is it going to be if they come up big? Not that much, those are the types of guys who do that.

 

And look at Jake - I was as disappointed as anyone when JB didn't pick Ehlers or Nylander, but it was immediately obvious why he picked Jake. Jake is built for the playoffs, and if he turns into a Raffi Torres with better hands, he absolutely will not be a waste of a high draft pick.