iinatcc Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 How about 8 years for 3 mil / year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, iinatcc said: How about 8 years for 3 mil / year? I hope you are not being serious. The best we can hope for is the Canucks sign him to a 3 year bridge deal and then re-sign him to an 8 year contract. That way we will have him locked up for the next 11 years until he is 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Rick Blight said: I hope you are not being serious. The best we can hope for is the Canucks sign him to a 3 year bridge deal and then re-sign him to an 8 year contract. That way we will have him locked up for the next 11 years until he is 33. It really depends on canucks future cap. It's not just about term, we want to be able to afford a team.. If canucks could get bo at 8 years for 3/year, we'd take that an run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 14 minutes ago, pluralsight said: That was in November. 8 months ago. there are newer convos as well. that is just the first one i found. he said that as late as 2 or 3 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: It really depends on canucks future cap. It's not just about term, we want to be able to afford a team.. If canucks could get bo at 8 years for 3/year, we'd take that an run. You don't seriously think there is even a remote possibility that they could get him for $3M a year though. I really doubt that Bo's contract is going to handcuff the Canucks in terms of being able to manage their salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, iinatcc said: How about 8 years for 3 mil / year? We don't have David Poile on staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 42 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: You don't seriously think there is even a remote possibility that they could get him for $3M a year though. I really doubt that Bo's contract is going to handcuff the Canucks in terms of being able to manage their salary cap. No, i really doubt he goes for 3. but cap hit and reasonable term is more important than only worrying about maxing out his term. What's more valuable to you? 8 years locked up at 5.3/year of 3 years at 4.5/year and then 8 years at 10/year Winning teams need to have impact players signed below market value, this happens by gambling long term. If we lock Bo up at 5.3 for 8 years. In years 4-8 we are going to have a steal of a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Winning teams need to have impact players signed below market value, this happens by gambling long term. If we lock Bo up at 5.3 for 8 years. In years 4-8 we are going to have a steal of a contract. Maybe. And maybe not. The guys who have signed multi-year deals in the $5-5.5 range for the last year have almost all proven a lot more than Horvat: Mika Zibanejad 24 C, RW July 25, 2017 Standard 5 $26,750,000 $5,350,000 Tomas Tatar 26 LW, RW July 21, 2017 Standard 4 $21,200,000 $5,300,000 Colton Parayko 24 D July 20, 2017 Standard 5 $27,500,000 $5,500,000 Ondrej Palat 26 LW July 14, 2017 Standard 5 $26,500,000 $5,300,000 Jaccob Slavin 23 D July 12, 2017 Standard 7 $37,100,000 $5,300,000 Tyler Johnson 26 C July 10, 2017 Standard 7 $35,000,000 $5,000,000 Dmitry Orlov 25 D June 30, 2017 Standard 6 $30,600,000 $5,100,000 Jonathan Drouin 22 LW June 15, 2017 Standard 6 $33,000,000 $5,500,000 Hampus Lindholm 22 D October 27, 2016 Standard 6 $31,500,000 $5,250,000 Rasmus Ristolainen 21 D October 11, 2016 Standard 6 $32,400,000 $5,400,000 Tyson Barrie 25 D July 31, 2016 Standard 4 $22,000,000 $5,500,000 Mike Hoffman 26 LW, C July 27, 2016 Standard 4 $20,750,000 $5,187,500 Danny DeKeyser 26 D July 26, 2016 Standard 6 $30,000,000 $5,000,000 Brayden Schenn 24 C, LW July 25, 2016 Standard 4 $20,500,000 $5,125,000 Jaden Schwartz 24 LW July 15, 2016 Standard 5 $26,750,000 $5,350,000 Some of those deals are already steals. But Horvat isn't in the same league yet as Palat, Parayko, Johnson, Lindholm, etc. And it's not an absolute that he ever gets to that level either. So why should we pay him at the rate established for better players? What if he just ends up an average 2nd line center, like Jordan Staal? What if he gets some injury trouble, and regresses? Lots of gambles there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, D-Money said: Maybe. And maybe not. The guys who have signed multi-year deals in the $5-5.5 range for the last year have all proven a lot more than Horvat: Mika Zibanejad 24 C, RW July 25, 2017 Standard 5 $26,750,000 $5,350,000 Tomas Tatar 26 LW, RW July 21, 2017 Standard 4 $21,200,000 $5,300,000 Colton Parayko 24 D July 20, 2017 Standard 5 $27,500,000 $5,500,000 Ondrej Palat 26 LW July 14, 2017 Standard 5 $26,500,000 $5,300,000 Jaccob Slavin 23 D July 12, 2017 Standard 7 $37,100,000 $5,300,000 Tyler Johnson 26 C July 10, 2017 Standard 7 $35,000,000 $5,000,000 Dmitry Orlov 25 D June 30, 2017 Standard 6 $30,600,000 $5,100,000 Jonathan Drouin 22 LW June 15, 2017 Standard 6 $33,000,000 $5,500,000 Hampus Lindholm 22 D October 27, 2016 Standard 6 $31,500,000 $5,250,000 Rasmus Ristolainen 21 D October 11, 2016 Standard 6 $32,400,000 $5,400,000 Tyson Barrie 25 D July 31, 2016 Standard 4 $22,000,000 $5,500,000 Mike Hoffman 26 LW, C July 27, 2016 Standard 4 $20,750,000 $5,187,500 Danny DeKeyser 26 D July 26, 2016 Standard 6 $30,000,000 $5,000,000 Brayden Schenn 24 C, LW July 25, 2016 Standard 4 $20,500,000 $5,125,000 Jaden Schwartz 24 LW July 15, 2016 Standard 5 $26,750,000 $5,350,000 Some of those deals are already steals. But Horvat isn't in the same league yet as Palat, Parayko, Johnson, Lindholm, etc. And it's not an absolute that he ever gets to that level either. So why should we pay him at the rate established for better players? What if he just ends up an average 2nd line center, like Jordan Staal? What if he gets some injury trouble, and regresses? Lots of gambles there... I"m assuming Bo continues his progression. Like i said, getting players below market value long term is the key and that involves a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Rick Blight said: I hope you are not being serious. The best we can hope for is the Canucks sign him to a 3 year bridge deal and then re-sign him to an 8 year contract. That way we will have him locked up for the next 11 years until he is 33. Well at the risk of sounding absurd that what I signed him at NHL 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, D-Money said: Maybe. And maybe not. The guys who have signed multi-year deals in the $5-5.5 range for the last year have almost all proven a lot more than Horvat: Some of those deals are already steals. But Horvat isn't in the same league yet as Palat, Parayko, Johnson, Lindholm, etc. And it's not an absolute that he ever gets to that level either. So why should we pay him at the rate established for better players? What if he just ends up an average 2nd line center, like Jordan Staal? What if he gets some injury trouble, and regresses? Lots of gambles there... And of course those players have proven more, all those forwards are older. . If you do a bridge deal and breaks out like Scheifele did last year. guess what, we are on the hook for a lot more money, which means less room to sign other talent on the team. I'm confident enough to offer Bo 5.3 range long term and reap the benefits. Worst case scenario, he does turn into an average 2nd line center, guess what those players cost? 4.5-5 million. So really worst case, we are slightly over paying a second line center, not much of a gamble if you ask me. But the reward could be huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_Days Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'd say the best comparables to Bo on that list are - Zibanejad: Both play center, Ziba has proven more then Bo at the NHL level, but Bo is younger and has had better 1st three years then Ziba had. Parayko: Not a center, but a D, both difficult positions to play. Both have finished the 1st three years of their ELC. Horvat lead the Canucks in goals and points (20G, 52P), wasn't lining up next to any superstars and was on one of the lower scoring teams in the league. Is also a good two-way player. Parayko has put up good numbers for a D, while fighting to get time on 1st pp unit against Shattenkirk, Pietrangelo. Both players have the potential to be cornerstone pieces of their teams in the next couple of years. If Canucks are doing a long-term deal with Bo (anything 4 years or over) expecting us to sign him for less then $5million a year is beyond hopeful. Only way I see him getting less then that is on a 1-2 year bridge deal. I'd be very happy if we could re-sign him for 5+ years at anywhere between $5-6million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 All singing = 10x Horvat skill and so no to sign for anyth 52 minutes ago, D-Money said: Maybe. And maybe not. The guys who have signed multi-year deals in the $5-5.5 range for the last year have almost all proven a lot more than Horvat: Mika Zibanejad 24 C, RW July 25, 2017 Standard 5 $26,750,000 $5,350,000 Tomas Tatar 26 LW, RW July 21, 2017 Standard 4 $21,200,000 $5,300,000 Colton Parayko 24 D July 20, 2017 Standard 5 $27,500,000 $5,500,000 Ondrej Palat 26 LW July 14, 2017 Standard 5 $26,500,000 $5,300,000 Jaccob Slavin 23 D July 12, 2017 Standard 7 $37,100,000 $5,300,000 Tyler Johnson 26 C July 10, 2017 Standard 7 $35,000,000 $5,000,000 Dmitry Orlov 25 D June 30, 2017 Standard 6 $30,600,000 $5,100,000 Jonathan Drouin 22 LW June 15, 2017 Standard 6 $33,000,000 $5,500,000 Hampus Lindholm 22 D October 27, 2016 Standard 6 $31,500,000 $5,250,000 Rasmus Ristolainen 21 D October 11, 2016 Standard 6 $32,400,000 $5,400,000 Tyson Barrie 25 D July 31, 2016 Standard 4 $22,000,000 $5,500,000 Mike Hoffman 26 LW, C July 27, 2016 Standard 4 $20,750,000 $5,187,500 Danny DeKeyser 26 D July 26, 2016 Standard 6 $30,000,000 $5,000,000 Brayden Schenn 24 C, LW July 25, 2016 Standard 4 $20,500,000 $5,125,000 Jaden Schwartz 24 LW July 15, 2016 Standard 5 $26,750,000 $5,350,000 Some of those deals are already steals. But Horvat isn't in the same league yet as Palat, Parayko, Johnson, Lindholm, etc. And it's not an absolute that he ever gets to that level either. So why should we pay him at the rate established for better players? What if he just ends up an average 2nd line center, like Jordan Staal? What if he gets some injury trouble, and regresses? Lots of gambles there... Exact ^ Horvit has proved nothing to compare to the above superstars and would be ripping off Aqa taking more than 3M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said: All singing = 10x Horvat skill and so no to sign for anyth Exact ^ Horvit has proved nothing to compare to the above superstars and would be ripping off Aqa taking more than 3M ...You know when you think you are making a good point, and someone wholeheartedly backs you up - but the quality of their post makes you want to rethink your original position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, pluralsight said: That was in November. 8 months ago. So let me get this straight. You request a source. He gives you a source. And now you're saying it was 8 months ago seemingly implying that it's somehow expired even though it was during the season? Did you even want a source to begin with? lol If you have the source, please link it. All I see is an interview in November saying they want to sign him long term, but with the way things are going it definitely sounds like they've changed their stance. And where's your source that they've changed their stance then?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 hours ago, D-Money said: Mika has put up similar offense to what Horvat did last year for multiple years now. Plus his underlying numbers are significantly better. Still think Horvat isn't worth more than $5 mil. If he's seeking more than that on a long term deal, I'd prefer a 2-year bridge deal around $4.5. Don't forget about Bo's intangibles. He's undoubtedly the future captain and has become a huge source of motivation and inspiration for his teammates I'd guess. That has some sort of value for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_Days Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 57 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said: All singing = 10x Horvat skill and so no to sign for anyth Exact ^ Horvit has proved nothing to compare to the above superstars and would be ripping off Aqa taking more than 3M err...superstars? Ziba - Horvat has had a much, much better 1st three years of his career then Ziba had. Ziba is nowhere near a superstar, he was on pace for 55-ish points this season, while playing on 1st unit and having wings such as Kreider, Nash, Buchenvich, Hayes vs Baertschi, Hansen, Megna... Tatar - Guy struggles to reach 50 points every year, isn't known for his two-way play and plays a position (wing) which is far easier to play and find players for. Next. Parayko - Horvat hasn't proven anything? Exactly what has Paprika proven then? Both just finished their ELC's. Derp. Palat - First guy who has proven a lot, far from superstar though. He signed a good deal that most people think is relatively fair to both parties...also a wing (Premium on centers and defense dontcha know) Slavin - See; Parayko, Horvat. Finished ELC, arguably has proved less then either. Johnson - Has he proven more then Horvat? Undoubtedly. Is he a superstar? No. Is Horvat trending in the right direction? Yes. Is Johnson? Many would argue no. Drouin - Another player who completed his ELC. Has had personality/commitment issues. Plays wing and put up slightly more points then Horvat on a stacked Tampa offense. Lindholm - Another ELC graduation. Very nice conract in terms of $$$ and term. Ristolainen - First player on here whom you could argue is a superstar as of right now (or very very close to it) He had one really good year under him when Buffalo extended him, they took a risk, it's paid off very well so far. Sounds awfully similar to Horvat. Schwartz/Schenn/Hoffman - Wouldn't call any of them superstars, all very good players, but for most part they are mostly 60-ish point players who are 2-4 years older then Horvat and all play an inferior position of winger. Saying he would be ripping "us"? off is equivalent to saying all these players are ripping their teams off. If you honestly think Horvat is worth no more then $3million, go back to NHL16 and keep handing out those contracts champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, pluralsight said: Based on recent interviews with Linden and Benning, the Canucks prefer a short term deal. And considering it's taken this long to negotiate a contract, I would say Bo's camp is on the opposite end of the spectrum, aka the long term. that is my read of the situation as well tracking this agent's record shows a trend towards longer term contracts for players in bo's position the canucks have always appeared to want a bridge type deal with bo and that would be done already if both sides wanted the bridge deal approach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, Glory_Days said: err...superstars? Ziba - Horvat has had a much, much better 1st three years of his career then Ziba had. Ziba is nowhere near a superstar, he was on pace for 55-ish points this season, while playing on 1st unit and having wings such as Kreider, Nash, Buchenvich, Hayes vs Baertschi, Hansen, Megna... Tatar - Guy struggles to reach 50 points every year, isn't known for his two-way play and plays a position (wing) which is far easier to play and find players for. Next. Parayko - Horvat hasn't proven anything? Exactly what has Paprika proven then? Both just finished their ELC's. Derp. Palat - First guy who has proven a lot, far from superstar though. He signed a good deal that most people think is relatively fair to both parties...also a wing (Premium on centers and defense dontcha know) Slavin - See; Parayko, Horvat. Finished ELC, arguably has proved less then either. Johnson - Has he proven more then Horvat? Undoubtedly. Is he a superstar? No. Is Horvat trending in the right direction? Yes. Is Johnson? Many would argue no. Drouin - Another player who completed his ELC. Has had personality/commitment issues. Plays wing and put up slightly more points then Horvat on a stacked Tampa offense. Lindholm - Another ELC graduation. Very nice conract in terms of $$$ and term. Ristolainen - First player on here whom you could argue is a superstar as of right now (or very very close to it) He had one really good year under him when Buffalo extended him, they took a risk, it's paid off very well so far. Sounds awfully similar to Horvat. Schwartz/Schenn/Hoffman - Wouldn't call any of them superstars, all very good players, but for most part they are mostly 60-ish point players who are 2-4 years older then Horvat and all play an inferior position of winger. Saying he would be ripping "us"? off is equivalent to saying all these players are ripping their teams off. If you honestly think Horvat is worth no more then $3million, go back to NHL16 and keep handing out those contracts champ. Havent played NHL since my SNES wore out and couldnt play '94 multi player any more so I guess im not a champ either Who are you quoting with the "us" as im sure i said Aqa? I guess I should have explained my motive after my reply... I disagree that any of those players have proven "a lot" more than Horvat even when most of them have played longer as well. That said, i probably should have just come out and said it and that is my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Wow.... people suggesting 3mil per year for Bo in a thread where Zibanejad gets 5.3mil and has comparable numbers...... Am I the only one trying to figure out the logic in this?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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