TheGuardian_

What Are Your Thoughts of What A Rebuild Is?

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It would be interesting to see what fans beleive a rebuild should be, I tried to do a poll but it kicked me back out to here.

 

IMO the Canucks are only doing what any team not needing to rebuild would do, draft players that might make the team, the same as any of the teams mentioned, some of their drafted players make the team.

 

Let's examine what the Canucks are doing to see if it is any different than what lets say Columbus, Nashville or Chicago is doing now.

 

Each of those team have drafted players over the last three years that are now in their line ups, each of those is not in the same situation as the Canucks they are playoff teams drafting higher or missing the first round all together.

 

Each of those teams have more younger playing in the last 3 years than the Canucks.

 

The Canucks have signed more UFA's than most teams, is that rebuilding or replacing?

 

Most of the above mentioned teams have traded to get "star" level impact players, the Canucks don't have one playing yet.

 

 

Edited by TheGuardian_
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sit.  wait. watch.

 

on a more serious note.  we need a duchene like player for LW and a quality rhd. whether that be dahlin or perhaps a Trouba.  someone with offensive generation who can pair up with juolevi or be better then him.  we have some decent quality players this year but lack the high end guys we need.

Edited by Rush17

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12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

It would be interesting to see what fans beleive a rebuild should be, I tried to do a poll but it kicked me back out to here.

 

IMO the Canucks are only doing what any team not needing to rebuild would do, draft players that might make the team, the same as any of the teams mentioned, some of their drafted players make the team.

 

Let's examine what the Canucks are doing to see if it is any different than what lets say Columbus, Nashville or Chicago is doing now.

 

Each of those team have drafted players over the last three years that are now in their line ups, each of those is not in the same situation as the Canucks they are playoff teams drafting higher or missing the first round all together.

 

Each of those teams have more younger playing in the last 3 years than the Canucks.

 

The Canucks have signed more UFA's than most teams, is that rebuilding or replacing?

 

Most of the above mentioned teams have traded to get "star" level impact players, the Canucks don't have one playing yet.

 

 

When you've got two players with a combined 21 million towards the cap, you're kind of forced to play younger cheaper players. They're also forced to move out secondary/support players every offseason to stay under the cap. Both have 6 years remaining and are not getting younger. Kane should still have some very good years left, but wouldn't be surprised to see Toews begin declining in a couple years. That contract could look even worse with 3 years remaining. 

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10 minutes ago, canucklehead80 said:

When you've got two players with a combined 21 million towards the cap, you're kind of forced to play younger cheaper players. They're also forced to move out secondary/support players every offseason to stay under the cap. Both have 6 years remaining and are not getting younger. Kane should still have some very good years left, but wouldn't be surprised to see Toews begin declining in a couple years. That contract could look even worse with 3 years remaining. 

$21mill against the cap?

Ohh you are referring to the Hawks. 

Edited by gurn

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7 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

There should never be a rebuild.  Never.  Ever.  If you are in a position where you basically need to fire everyone and start from scratch - that implies years and years of horrendous mismanagement (and a complete inability to judge players or think-ahead). 

 

It should never get that far.  You should never have management that's that far removed from reality.  It should never get to the point where you need a rebuild.  You should have seen the problems coming literally years in advance (and done something about it).

 

So, yeah, a rebuild is irrefutable evidence that your management has been horrifically incompetent for a very, very long time.  That's what a rebuild is.

I think there is plenty of proof these last few years that your bolded has been the case with the Canucks. Maybe not for a very long time, but the late Gillis years and several moments in Benning's tenure have set the Nucks back to where they are now, and have been these last few years.

Edited by Blue Jay 22

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26 minutes ago, gurn said:

$21mill against the cap?

Ohh you are referring to the Hawks. 

20 mil for the Canucks for 3 players, 22 million in salary.

 

IMO those teams are re-tooling and there is a difference although it can be similar. Again I believed a Canucks re-tool 4 years ago would have looked like Horvat to replace Kesler and then the next two drafts to replace the Sedins although that would have required the team not improve from their 6th place finish and drafted different players or more and daring work.

 

All teams will need to replace their "core" players at some time usually every 10 years or so, Detroit got lucky in that they had better European scouts and snagged their next core in late round draft picks while trading away their 1rst round picks for established NHL star players. Pittsburgh will hit a wall in the next 4 years as they don't have the "next one's" unless they start trading their vets like Malkin, Benning is just waiting until he is 34 to sign him to a huge retirement contract I am sure:lol:.

 

IMO in 2013 the team needed to start re-tooling, looking to replace core players by 2015 the team needed to start a rebuild and each year that goes by without improvement will require more of scorched earth approach and without marked improvement adds another 3 to 4 years to a return to cup contention or waiting until the good teams get old and stupid. 2021 to 2022 now. Or 5 years after the Sedins retire.

Edited by TheGuardian_
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24 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

our rebuild will be when pettersson, dahlin, gaudette, lind, gadjovich, juolevi, virtanen, boeser and demko, are ready to take over the leadership and mantle of the team. those rebuilding pieces are not ready to do that yet. it will probably take 2 more years before these players are ready for prime time. 

the sedins, edler, ericksson, gagner, vanek, dorsett, horvat, granlund, baertschi, sutter and markstrom are trying to be competitive until the the building pieces are ready. 

I admire your optimism that all those players will be NHLer's or some, star players. Surely some will make it but none can be considered as NHL players yet even Boeser is just starting out and has a high upside.

 

Nothing to do with the quote, but what the Nucks seem to be doing is trying to build upon a crumbling foundation already in place and using old hockey standards of it taking at least 5+ years to rebuild/re-tool. That notion has been nullified by the way the game is played (regular season) now with more junior and college players, the good one's, being able to step into the NHL and have an impact immediately.

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You need to acquire new talent and if it's young talent you need to develop it properly.  

 

So, you can rebuild your prospect pool through draft and trade 

 

but

 

you also need to ensure that the NHL / AHL levels are healthy places for young players to have opportunity to grow without being asked to do too much.  You need waves of players - not just a glut of draft picks over a 3 year span.  Good leadership and coaching is also important. 

 

That also tranfers to Junior, college and overseas players not being thrust into the pros too soon.

 

In short - most of rebuilding is an organizational goal relevant for all clubs at any stage.  The difference would be not moving future assets for rentals.  Rather, selling rentals for futures.

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33 minutes ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

I think there is plenty of proof these last few years that your bolded has been the case with the Canucks. Maybe not for a very long time, but the late Gillis years and several moments in Benning's tenure have set the Nucks back to where they are now, and have been these last few years.

I think Giilis was starting the re-tool/rebuild, his unpopular but bold trade for Horvat to replace Kesler, that trade is still one of the biggest deals on draft day in the last two decades or more. Gillis players are now some of the new corner stone, so far, of the franchise, Tanev (2010), Horvat (2013), Hutton (2012) all these players played in the NHL coming out of junior or college, I wonder what he would have done in 2014? Larkin?

 

Benning had a killer 2014 draft with the exception of JV so far BUT he had the advantage of the Boston scouting reports to draw upon and the Canuck European Scouts. Just abut all the picks that year should end up in the NHL even if not with the Canucks.

Edited by TheGuardian_

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2 minutes ago, shazzam said:

Unfortunately the rebuild has not started yet. Learn from what Toronto did recently. Clean house

Clean house and get lucky with the lottery  ...

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6 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

you also need to ensure that the NHL / AHL levels are healthy places for young players to have opportunity to grow without being asked to do too much.  You need waves of players - not just a glut of draft picks over a 3 year span.  Good leadership and coaching is also important. 

I agree but you also have to get those player into the NHL, I keep going back to TO before the Shanaplan, they had killer AHL teams but the players just didn't get a shot.

And this time around TO did hire the best out there they even gave up a draft pick to get Lamorello. Edmonton did close to the same thing.

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1 minute ago, shazzam said:

Unfortunately the rebuild has not started yet. Learn from what Toronto did recently. Clean house

Except they didn't - Kadri, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner, Reilly, Komarov... most of those are guys in their mid to late 20s or early 30s who have long ties to the team. 

 

The Leafs jettisoned Kessel, Phaneuf and some riff raff but they kept a solid group of players.

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