At Number 10 Who do we take?

[xereau]

41 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

In a perfect world, I'd take ...

 

[YungWee]

4 hours ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Botch is that you? 

 

Down for this, or a scoring winger at 10.

[filthycanuck]

15 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

all depends on the return, like any deal. Rarely do 'sell high' situations come around but if one is out there I think Jim has to look at it if it gets us e..g, another 1st rounder or a top pairing potential RHD. 

Theres always a good team that underachieves in the playoffs because of goaltending, and heads to the season with an itchy trigger finger. That being said, 1 good year from Markstrom isnt gonna land a 1st rounder or a top D-man. Most likely a 3rd and a B level prospect, MAYBE a 2nd rounder,

[JM_]

17 hours ago, Alflives said:

Been watching a lot of game video on Zegras, and don't care for him.  Seems like a guy feeding off of Hughes.  I get the Hunter Shinkaruk vibe from him.  Perimeter guy, who doesn't like the dirty areas.  Not sure though, of course.  Just my opinion. 

 

man thats a scary thought. Shink is a good example of the risks at the draft. The back1/2 of that 2013 1st round is littered with cautionary tales.

 

Granlund gets a lot of crap on these boards but he's played 300 games, has 97 pts, Shink has 15 games, 2 points. 

 

I don't want us to draft another smaller-side, potential perimeter F at 10th. Lets leave that for later rounds. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[Canuck Surfer]

11 hours ago, hammertime said:

I was just speaking to who I think will be able to quickly make the jump to the NHL.

 

D are tough Its very rare that they make the jump in their D+1. I think Soderstrom is probably the closest to being NHL ready even more so than Byram. That being said much like Lavoi I also don't see him as a potential franchise player. More so that he probably has the most complete toolbox at this time. I still don't see him on an NHL roster next year though. If it's me and I'm targeting a D I'm going with Sieder he's definitely more of a project but with his size speed and shot he has that #1 D ceiling at worst he's a #5 we can use on special teams. 

Make or not in their D + 1 year?

 

Its about skills, elite athletes versus good ones, hockey sense. You can also look at stats, but its more about how their skills hold up against top competition. In D and forwards.  

True, it does normally just takes longer for D.

> First they simply take more punishment, hits being forechecked, blocking shots. Need to be thoroughly prepared physically.

> There is also no substitute for handling the puck against NHL pressure, speed and size.

> Nor defensively is there a substitute for having the balance and agility to shift with ultra elusive NHL players on the rush. Keep position to not get run over by big players.

 

But you can still scout who is composed with the puck, has that speed to track it. And if you don't have it, its easier to teach gap control. Or steering NHL puck handlers where you can deal with them? If you already have balance, edges, agility, strength, endurance. Compared to a D who are just big & can manhandle juniors.  Develop D by integrating them against increased competition levels, train for the duress. And scout for the actual attributes that will translate/

 

And when the guy is available that projects as the best player over the next ten years? You cannot take a forward with less speed and skill, just because they have NHL size now. If anything, when good D are available, waiting till next year makes the wait even longer...

 

Soderstrom, you are correct, is already playing well against older, better competition.  

 

 

[Tomatoes11]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

man thats a scary thought. Shink is a good example of the risks at the draft. The back1/2 of that 2013 1st round is littered with cautionary tales.

 

Granlund gets a lot of crap on these boards but he's played 300 games, has 97 pts, Shink has 15 games, 2 points. 

 

I don't want us to draft another smaller-side, potential perimeter F at 10th. Lets leave that for later rounds. 

We don’t need bottom 6 grinders with our 10th overall pick though. We can get those through every other mean like Benning loves to do for some reason. 

 

With our 10th we definitely should go for the highest ceiling without worrying about the bust too much. All things considered equal, of course you go for the safer pick, but usually it’s never equal in the boom factor.  Zegras was just referred to as the USA version of EP40. Even if he busts, that’s better than Granlund. At least there WAS hope.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Tomatoes11

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, YungWee said:

Down for this, or a scoring winger at 10.

I think the cost would include our #10 OA pick too.  

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

We don’t need bottom 6 grinders with our 19th overall pick though. We can those through every other mean like Benning loves to do for some reason. 

 

With our 10th we definitely should go for the highest ceiling without worrying about the bust too much. All things considered equal, of course you go for the safer pick, but usually it’s never equal in the boom factor.  Zebras was just referred to as the USA version of EP40. Even if he busts, that’s better than Granlund. At least there WAS hope.

my worry about him and a couple of the other US players is are people looking at the USNDP this year as the next shiny object to get some attention and are those guys getting valued too high? 

 

I'm high on Soderstrom because he's one of a handful of guys actually competing and doing well in a men's league. To me "BPA" is a right handed d that is proving himself in the SHL vs. maybe another smallish winger. 

 

But what I know about scouting fits in a thimble. Whatever happens I do trust Brackett and Benning, they've been getting better every year in identifying talent. 

[Canuck Surfer]

17 hours ago, Alflives said:

Been watching a lot of game video on Zegras, and don't care for him.  Seems like a guy feeding off of Hughes.  I get the Hunter Shinkaruk vibe from him.  Perimeter guy, who doesn't like the dirty areas.  Not sure though, of course.  Just my opinion. 

When I watched him, seemed he played a lot with Caulfield? I only watch so often but; I saw Z handling the puck in traffic, leading the rush, driving plays. He also stuck his nose in it, took penalties, competed for the puck. Caufield headed to the net & converted his plays. Z Did play PP on Hughes wing, which is not a bad thing. 

 

And he has more explosiveness, some junk, evasive agility than Shink. I'm not seeing that comparison.

 

The combines will be a good place to find out what's between the ears in interviews. The true athleticism in tests. See how hard players have been training? The scouts already know. But its interesting for their managers & public to get some reinforcement of what the scouts are saying. I recall Shinkaruk showing up for camp with peanut butter arms. Watching the way Zegras moves, I don't think you will see that. I usually make up my own amateur opinion, say between Boldy & Zegras, then?

 

I looked up two articles for you; 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/trevor-zegras-thriving-playing-with-jack-hughes-before-2019-draft/c-303960152 

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/04/07/trevor-zegras-scouting-report-2019-nhl-draft-8/

[Alflives]

23 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

When I watched him, seemed he played a lot with Caulfield? I only watch so often but; I saw Z handling the puck in traffic, leading the rush, driving plays. He also stuck his nose in it, took penalties, competed for the puck. Caufield headed to the net & converted his plays. Z Did play PP on Hughes wing, which is not a bad thing. 

 

And he has more explosiveness, some junk, evasive agility than Shink. I'm not seeing that comparison.

 

The combines will be a good place to find out what's between the ears in interviews. The true athleticism in tests. See how hard players have been training? The scouts already know. But its interesting for their managers & public to get some reinforcement of what the scouts are saying. I recall Shinkaruk showing up for camp with peanut butter arms. Watching the way Zegras moves, I don't think you will see that. I usually make up my own amateur opinion, say between Boldy & Zegras, then?

 

I looked up two articles for you; 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/trevor-zegras-thriving-playing-with-jack-hughes-before-2019-draft/c-303960152 

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/04/07/trevor-zegras-scouting-report-2019-nhl-draft-8/

Thanks Surfer.  I like what I read about Zegras, especially the mention of his grit.  He looked a bit too fancy in space to my liking, but (if he is a high compete guy) that is only a coaching issue, and not a character one. 

He's back on my list! 

[Tomatoes11]

23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

my worry about him and a couple of the other US players is are people looking at the USNDP this year as the next shiny object to get some attention and are those guys getting valued too high? 

 

I'm high on Soderstrom because he's one of a handful of guys actually competing and doing well in a men's league. To me "BPA" is a right handed d that is proving himself in the SHL vs. maybe another smallish winger. 

 

But what I know about scouting fits in a thimble. Whatever happens I do trust Brackett and Benning, they've been getting better every year in identifying talent. 

I prefer soderstrom too if byram doesn’t somehow drop to us. But Söderström has upside still. He isn’t like a totally safe pick. He might be a safer pick than Broberg and Harley but he can still be a top pairing D. Or like a Stralman. 

 

Another granlund, we definitely do not need. 

 

I am just against drafting players with low ceilings that high. Even if they don’t bust, do we really need another Beagle, Granlund, Schaller, or Schenn? 

 

Go for the higher ceiling regardless of their bust potential. We need to take some risks. 

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Make or not in their D + 1 year?

 

Its about skills, elite athletes versus good ones, hockey sense. You can also look at stats, but its more about how their skills hold up against top competition. In D and forwards.  

True, it does normally just takes longer for D.

> First they simply take more punishment, hits being forechecked, blocking shots. Need to be thoroughly prepared physically.

> There is also no substitute for handling the puck against NHL pressure, speed and size.

> Nor defensively is there a substitute for having the balance and agility to shift with ultra elusive NHL players on the rush. Keep position to not get run over by big players.

 

But you can still scout who is composed with the puck, has that speed to track it. And if you don't have it, its easier to teach gap control. Or steering NHL puck handlers where you can deal with them? If you already have balance, edges, agility, strength, endurance. Compared to a D who are just big & can manhandle juniors.  Develop D by integrating them against increased competition levels, train for the duress. And scout for the actual attributes that will translate/

 

And when the guy is available that projects as the best player over the next ten years? You cannot take a forward with less speed and skill, just because they have NHL size now. If anything, when good D are available, waiting till next year makes the wait even longer...

 

Soderstrom, you are correct, is already playing well against older, better competition.  

 

 

I'm so confused are you agreeing with me or giving me a lesson on NHL readiness and then agreeing with me after contradicting your own criteria? 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

I prefer soderstrom too if byram doesn’t somehow drop to us. But Söderström has upside still. He isn’t like a totally safe pick. He might be a safer pick than Broberg and Harley but he can still be a top pairing D. Or like a Stralman. 

 

Another granlund, we definitely do not need. 

 

I am just against drafting players with low ceilings that high. Even if they don’t bust, do we really need another Beagle, Granlund, Schaller, or Schenn? 

 

Go for the higher ceiling regardless of their bust potential. We need to take some risks. 

I think Benning already went for the safer d bet once in Juolevi, who I liked and still like as a pick. I do think the Soderstrom - Stralman comp is a good one, thats what I've seen him projected as, a very good #3d. At 10 if we actually got someone as good as Stralman I'd consider that a win for our future, given the cost of obtaining players like that now either in trade of free agency. 

 

But you make a good point, you don't want to limit the potential right off the bat. Its a tough one but my guess is the decision will be made easier by a player falling to us like last year. 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

41 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

my worry about him and a couple of the other US players is are people looking at the USNDP this year as the next shiny object to get some attention and are those guys getting valued too high? 

 

I'm high on Soderstrom because he's one of a handful of guys actually competing and doing well in a men's league. To me "BPA" is a right handed d that is proving himself in the SHL vs. maybe another smallish winger. 

 

But what I know about scouting fits in a thimble. Whatever happens I do trust Brackett and Benning, they've been getting better every year in identifying talent. 

There are some USDP guys who are putting up superb results this year. Caulfield approaching Kessel & Matthews by memory for all time goal scoring records, Jack Hughes over 2 points a game, And there is more of them. And its the forwards, from USDP and the WHL in Dach, Cozens, Krebs.Kacko in Finland. Its just where the players are this year!

 

Last year it was Dahlin in the SHL, OHL guys like Svechnikov with 40 goals in 44 games. Bouchard, Zadina in the Q. These were the guys making waves + year of the D Dobson, Boqvist, Quinn Hughes had already graduated to the NCAA, Ty Smith. So many good D! 

 

Europe is against men. USDP is a collection of best talent, supported by coaching and training programs. Plus they practice against top talent. They're turning out good players. It is what it is! 

[Canuck Surfer]

24 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I'm so confused are you agreeing with me or giving me a lesson on NHL readiness and then agreeing with me after contradicting your own criteria? 

No contradiction intended. Select the best skills, athletic ability.   BPA, not Soonest Player Available.

 

I did mention / agree, D often take longer to develop. I also agreed Soderstrom seemed to have a more mature game. Against that trend.

 

But its the skills I like.

 

Sorry for confusion. 

 

 

[250Integra]

On a random note, is there a reason why Alexis Lafreniere was not selected to Team Canada U-18 team?

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

There are some USDP guys who are putting up superb results this year. Caulfield approaching Kessel & Matthews by memory for all time goal scoring records, Jack Hughes over 2 points a game, And there is more of them. And its the forwards, from USDP and the WHL in Dach, Cozens, Krebs.Kacko in Finland. Its just where the players are this year!

 

Last year it was Dahlin in the SHL, OHL guys like Svechnikov with 40 goals in 44 games. Bouchard, Zadina in the Q. These were the guys making waves + year of the D Dobson, Boqvist, Quinn Hughes had already graduated to the NCAA, Ty Smith. So many good D! 

 

Europe is against men. USDP is a collection of best talent, supported by coaching and training programs. Plus they practice against top talent. They're turning out good players. It is what it is! 

I guess I'm old school, I put more value in the mens league experience for projecting a players real skill set. But I'd be happy to be surprised by a player from that group this year too. Just don't want more smurfs. 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, VancouverIteinSanDiego said:

a pure goal scorer that can finish! look at all those shots Goldy had that he just missed, if we had someone who could finish with a quick release, I know Travis Green wants more defensive minded, which is where if its true about Boldy that works for us 

THN thinks he’s got one if not the best shot in the entire draft.  Plus he skates like the wind for a big frame...and he’s got a chance to play as an 18 year old.  Scouts say he’s one of the best goal scorers they’ve ever seen in their system, which is pretty high praise given how the US is starting to push Canada the last few years with some of the highest picks in the first round.  This year both Canada and the US have three guys that should go in the top ten, maybe four for Canada but the quality of the players is pretty equal, maybe leaning towards the states given Hughes is considered the best prospect by 90% of the guys that count that rank them.  

 

On Boldy scouts say “Elite scorer with a great shot, and knows how to get into the scoring lanes.  Has elite hands in tight and unbelievable hand to eye corndination.  One of the best scorers I’ve ever seen in the NTDP and he’s just starting to tap into his size” 

 

Given we need another Boeser quality guy in the top six I wouldn’t be disappointed at all with this pick.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

 

That is a good neutral zone play defensively.  However, is his good positioning because of hockey IQ or poor skating.  The puck was turned over, so he was kind of stuck in the neutral zone, behind the play.  No turnover, and he's way behind the play.  I'm not sure about a guy who has skating issues.  Not everyone is Bo Horvat.  There are a lot more Jonah Gadjovic's than Horvats.