[Discussion] Hard to move Contracts

[J.I.A.H.N]

Hi all this is not a trade proposal, but I want to see if my reasoning works

 

I posted this on HF Boards to see if I could get some other team's fans to respond...…..

 

I noted, that I thought we had 3 contracts that were hard to move, and asked if they had any value

 

There were Baertschi, Sutter and Eriksson

 

The short answer was...………..

 

Baertschi has some value at the TDL if uninjured...……………...value was suggested as a 2nd

Sutter had a little value, but it was suggested to add if you wanted better

Eriksson was pretty much a negative value...….which we all knew

 

In the case of Sutter, I suggest using DiPietro as a sweetener, to ensure a decent return of a 2nd...………..

 

It is here that I was wondering that the addition of a 2nd tier type prospect, might allow us to get rid of an expendable and redundant player

 

My thought process is one of which I feel that Sutter will bring back very little return by himself, and not be enticing enough by himself to make

other teams have interest in him. The goal in my idea, was that trading Sutter, and DiPietro, although diminishes our prospect base by a player,

allows us to pick up that prospect later, b using their 2nd.

 

In addition, the moving of Sutter allows us the luxury of adding another player via free agency (In my case I want either Dzingel or Ferland), and as 

Sutter has no real value to speak of, we would be gaining the potential value of Dzingel or Ferland later on, when one of Podkolzin or Hglander is ready.

 

This is just a example of why and how, some of our older veteran could be moved...…..

 

What I would like to know, is that a logical way to do it.

(The assumption I am making is that either Dzingel or Ferland has more value 2 or 3 years down the road if traded)

 

Thoughts?

[Glug Datt]

yup that's how you do it.. I don't think it's rocket science

 

the issue is finding someone who needs one of the 2.. ie who could really use an oft-injured over paid 3C, or a decent goalie prospect.. and has room on the roster.. and cap space.. and is willing to part with a pick or something useful.. 

 

I believe if it was that easy, JB would have accomplished it already.. unless he really values what Sutter brings to the table at this point

[YEGCanuck]

If it was my decision I would rather take a 7th round pick than add an asset in order to move Errickson. Naturally this assumes we can identify a serious dance partner.

[coastal.view]

if it was my decision

i'd assume that the nucks will not win the cup this year

and i'd try to have sutter and baer recapture value by playing before considering moving them

maybe trade deadline moves could be valuable

knock another year and bonus payment off ericksson and move him around this time next season (or buy him out)

 

we have to move some bodies but we have a number of others i'd prefer to demote

rather then pay assets to move the players mentioned

demote loui, schaller, gaudette, bailey, goldobin, the 5 young dmen (fat, raf, bris, saut, teves)

call gaudette back up after roussell is on ltir

 

i think that gets the roster to 23 and some salary room

even with brock signed

[Dungass]

I think Tanev and possibly Sutter are moveable, but it wouldn't be cheap on our end.  Tanev still has SOME value, but I think a team would probably want some sort of sweetener to eat his whole contract for the year.  Getting a team to take all of Sutter for the next two years just isn't on.  We would have to retain a good portion of his salary to have any thoughts of moving him.

[Crabcakes]

Guys like Sutter and Baertschi need the opportunity to show that they have value.  They need to play and then Benning can decide if they either have value to the team or have value as trade pieces.  

 

If you're talking about freeing up cap space for the beginning of the season, keep in mind that Cap Friendly is showing 17 forwards and 12 D so 8 players on the NHL list will be either traded or sent to Utica.  Roussel will be on LTIR until December.

1. Roussel LTIR $3M
2. Schaller $1.9
3. Gaudette $916
4. Bailey $700
5. Briesbois $697
6. Sautner $675
7. Teves not yet signed
8. Rafferty not yet signed

So there's $7.888M right there on top of the 5.5 listed already.  Total $13.3M to sign Goldy and Boeser which is more than enough.

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Guys like Sutter and Baertschi need the opportunity to show that they have value.  They need to play and then Benning can decide if they either have value to the team or have value as trade pieces.  

 

If you're talking about freeing up cap space for the beginning of the season, keep in mind that Cap Friendly is showing 17 forwards and 12 D so 8 players on the NHL list will be either traded or sent to Utica.  Roussel will be on LTIR until December.

1. Roussel LTIR $3M
2. Schaller $1.9
3. Gaudette $916
4. Bailey $700
5. Briesbois $697
6. Sautner $675
7. Teves not yet signed
8. Rafferty not yet signed

So there's $7.888M right there on top of the 5.5 listed already.  Total $13.3M to sign Goldy and Boeser which is more than enough.

you nailed it. We're fine.

 

The irony with Sutter and Baer is if they play well enough to become tradable we might as well keep them. I do think both are more than capable of having rebound years. If they do, we're going to be fairly deep as well. 

 

I do hope by some miracle or temporary GM insanity that we move on from Loui. I do think he can contribute but I just don't want the negativity thats going to go with him suiting up here again. We almost never hear boo's at Rogers for our own guys and I don't want that to be a thing. 

[flickyoursedin]

The Tanev, Sutter and Granlund types should have been moved well before the deadline last year. Before they all got hurt. Benning has painted himself into a corner by not being able to find deals for these players. Now Granlund walks for nothing and we’re looking at worse value for our players. I get Granlund wouldn’t have gotten much but it’s just bad asset management. I’ve liked a lot of what this drafting team has done in the middle rounds of the last 3-4 drafts. Names like Keppen, Madden, Dipietro, Rathbone, Tryamkin, Gaudette and Jasek all coming in rounds 3 and later. The wild hopes of the playoffs the last couple years has halted the rebuild by making Benning hold onto players he should have traded. Now those players still on the roster are devalued and messing up the cap situation for the future moves.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

The Tanev, Sutter and Granlund types should have been moved well before the deadline last year. Before they all got hurt. Benning has painted himself into a corner by not being able to find deals for these players. Now Granlund walks for nothing and we’re looking at worse value for our players. I get Granlund wouldn’t have gotten much but it’s just bad asset management. I’ve liked a lot of what this drafting team has done in the middle rounds of the last 3-4 drafts. Names like Keppen, Madden, Dipietro, Rathbone, Tryamkin, Gaudette and Jasek all coming in rounds 3 and later. The wild hopes of the playoffs the last couple years has halted the rebuild by making Benning hold onto players he should have traded. Now those players still on the roster are devalued and messing up the cap situation for the future moves.

so the premise here is Jim was just too lazy or stupid to try to get picks? 

[Crabcakes]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you nailed it. We're fine.

 

The irony with Sutter and Baer is if they play well enough to become tradable we might as well keep them. I do think both are more than capable of having rebound years. If they do, we're going to be fairly deep as well. 

 

I do hope by some miracle or temporary GM insanity that we move on from Loui. I do think he can contribute but I just don't want the negativity thats going to go with him suiting up here again. We almost never hear boo's at Rogers for our own guys and I don't want that to be a thing. 

I think it's bizarre that Benning has been unable to reach Loui.  Is he one of these guys who goes fishing in the middle of nowhere for a month every summer?  I think Sundin used to do that in Sweden.  Maybe I've missed something or they're just keeping it under wraps.  I agree, this whole thing smells bad and is no good for the team.

[flickyoursedin]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

so the premise here is Jim was just too lazy or stupid to try to get picks? 

No it’s that in the last couple years of the rebuild come deadline we were close so he stayed pat thinking we could make it in. When he should have been capitalizing on our older vets with value that weren’t going to be a part of the future core. Kind of like what the NYR did.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

I think it's bizarre that Benning has been unable to reach Loui.  Is he one of these guys who goes fishing in the middle of nowhere for a month every summer?  I think Sundin used to do that in Sweden.  Maybe I've missed something or they're just keeping it under wraps.  I agree, this whole thing smells bad and is no good for the team.

I guess he must be very po'd with his situation here. It bothers me that he felt he had to move his family, I hope we don't find out later that its because they were getting hassled. 

 

There's an idea floating around on the board that there's a way to loan him to a Euro club and have the cap saved on our side. That seems ideal from a fan pov but I doubt Aquilini cares much for it 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

No it’s that in the last couple years of the rebuild come deadline we were close so he stayed pat thinking we could make it in. When he should have been capitalizing on our older vets with value that weren’t going to be a part of the future core. Kind of like what the NYR did.

well Sutter was walking wounded all year. Tanev was too. There were reports of Jim getting lowball offers for Tanev, and I'm glad he didn't do that because we'd have to pay a ton to replace him for this year. 

 

We never had the assets to do what NYR did. None of our guys were ever going to return multiple 1sts. 

[Crabcakes]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess he must be very po'd with his situation here. It bothers me that he felt he had to move his family, I hope we don't find out later that its because they were getting hassled. 

 

There's an idea floating around on the board that there's a way to loan him to a Euro club and have the cap saved on our side. That seems ideal from a fan pov but I doubt Aquilini cares much for it 

You know, based on what fans did to the Lucic family and their church I wouldn't be surprised if they were getting grief.  

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess he must be very po'd with his situation here. It bothers me that he felt he had to move his family, I hope we don't find out later that its because they were getting hassled. 

 

There's an idea floating around on the board that there's a way to loan him to a Euro club and have the cap saved on our side. That seems ideal from a fan pov but I doubt Aquilini cares much for it 

Melnyk’s favourite Ottawa area MLA isn’t visiting Vancouver is she? 

[BigCountry18]

Eriksson is the only guy we should be looking at moving at this point. We need the depth from Sutter based on the durability of our bottom-6 centres. Baertschi was on pace for almost 50 points last season until the 2 freak injuries, none of which were his fault (puck breaking his jaw & blindside hit from behind). He's our most skilled player other than Petey, no way we should just trade him for an unknown, especially when we're finally trying to be competitive.

[smithers joe]

i believe they will retain 1 mil per year of lou's

cap hit and move him to a team that can use the cap hit but not having to pay more than 2 mil a year. 

apparently green really likes sutter and the way he plays when he’s healthy. 

we need a healthy tanev for this season. maybe trade at deadline. maybe i’m an optimist but that is what i think. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

4 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i believe they will retain 1 mil per year of lou's

cap hit and move him to a team that can use the cap hit but not having to pay more than 2 mil a year. 

apparently green really likes sutter and the way he plays when he’s healthy. 

we need a healthy tanev for this season. maybe trade at deadline. maybe i’m an optimist but that is what i think. 

I agree we don't trade everybody, and Sutter is a multi talented person, albeit in the lower 3/4 lines, but he can play wing and center, take FO's, and penalty kill. Probably a good guy to keep around

 

Baertschi, is a decent winger that is getting crowded out (Miller and Pearson) both will play 1/2 LW, before Baertschi, with both Leivo and Goldobin, having small chances to up stage him, and that is before Rousell and down the road Hoglander. So, IMO, sure.....let him play short term, but long term, his days are numbered. IMO, if he can climb up the ladder in the early part of the year, then we move him at the TDL. Our problem has always been not moving guys when we should. On Baertschi, we should, if we can.

 

As for Eriksson, I have never heard of that one Joe. So we pay his July1st Bonus (Done), then we retain !M of salary per for the remainder of his contract. It sound feaseable

Yeah, he is worth 2M per year...……...hmmm!

 

Someone mentioned Tanev, and IMO, I think he should be moved at the TDL, if we can keep him healthy...….Great player, Time has come. I would play him 3rd set, if we could, with less minutes against high end players...………….I wonder if Green could do that?

 

Again, I don't think they should all be moved, but???????

[kloubek]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you nailed it. We're fine.

 

The irony with Sutter and Baer is if they play well enough to become tradable we might as well keep them. I do think both are more than capable of having rebound years. If they do, we're going to be fairly deep as well. 

Exactly this.  We would get nothing for either - yet both were solid at their roles when healthy.  Sutter came back a lesser player for sure, but I think with the extra healing and off-season there is a more than reasonable possibility one or both of these guys will once again be decent at their roles.

 

Whether we keep them or not?  One may argue that Sutter plays too close a role to Beagle, or that Baertschi may not be the playoff-style guy we need in our top 6 - though I imagine there is a debate to be had in both cases. Regardless, no point in moving players out now for nothing when they really can't go lower in value than they already are.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

Exactly this.  We would get nothing for either - yet both were solid at their roles when healthy.  Sutter came back a lesser player for sure, but I think with the extra healing and off-season there is a more than reasonable possibility one or both of these guys will once again be decent at their roles.

 

Whether we keep them or not?  One may argue that Sutter plays too close a role to Beagle, or that Baertschi may not be the playoff-style guy we need in our top 6 - though I imagine there is a debate to be had in both cases. Regardless, no point in moving players out now for nothing when they really can't go lower in value than they already are.

I agree somewhat on yours and Jim's comment. They make good sense, and realistically, it is the most plausible outcome.

 

Where I was going with this and why I made this post, was for the dialogue and discussion regarding that, and comparison of what would be better for the club

 

An example of this is...…..the question, Which move is best for the club

 

Sutter + DiPietro          for            a 2020 2nd + the ability to sign another UFA (say Dzingel or Ferland)