[Signing] Canucks sign Micheal Ferland

[Silver Ghost]

Leafs fan and repoeters: "Man, at best your team, that has been bottom of the league for 4 years, will be a 1st round exit! Geez, get to work improving!"

 

Everyone else: "We appreciate the Stanley Cup Favorite experts on choking and $&!#ting the bed in the first round giving us the heads up. Doesnt your GMvstill have "priority one" to get done after he is now finished gutting your depth?"

Edited July 13, 2019 by Silver Ghost

[Silver Ghost]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I almost feel bad for the scribe (if it wasn't just meaningless hockey talk and not terribly consequential).

 

He actually has to work that hard to tell himself that Trevor Moore is enough to counter the roster losses, the cap crunch, the lack of depth, the dwindling prospect pool.....

 

I have a good friend - a longtime Leafs fan - under no illusions that Dubas is some kind of kid-genius.  On the other hand, I had a work acquaintance - long-time Leafs fan - that literally had a  meltdown, crying in the workplace, after the Bruins bullied them for the third straight time.

 

That market doesn't need reassuring fluff imo - they need to dig in, get real, get critical - and I mean constructive criticism - not Van-media style mindless sideline wanking.

 

They are giving Dubas the soft-soap pass again - scapegoating their coach - and not really forming expectations that they actually build the depth - and the harder to play against elements - that it takes to be successful in the playoffs.  One Tyson Barrie aint gonna change the underlying weakness of their build.

The lack of media and fan accountability and realism is what has fed the culture of mediocrity and underachievement in Toronto for decades. Maybe if they stop trying to blame one player (Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, etc.) and start being objective about just how badly Lamoriello, Shanahan, and Dubas have &^@#ed up, they would be able to actually right the ship.

 

Nope, lets go with the blue koolaid.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Silver Ghost

[Silver Ghost]

This leafs teams gets swept in 4 by Boston if they play again. Boston is salivating looking at their weak ass lineup. Guys like Marchand live to bully teams like that. Canucks used to be like that but not this year lol.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Silver Ghost

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I hope he's nicer to Barrie, I'd like to get him as a UFA next year and free him from the Laffs. 

I'm not in the Barrie camp.  

 

I don't think the team needs another pmd.  I also like the fact that they have surrounded their 'elite' young core players with the right complements.

It's not just Barrie (that I wouldn't spend the cap on) - I throw the range of Karlssons, etc - or the over-rated Colin MIllers in that category as well.

I think I'd rather see Hughes in the principal play-driving, pmd role / minutes - let him run the powerplay - and evolve and take advantage of his (and EP's) ELCs to fill out the right supporting cast.  I think aside from him they have some good puck moving in the lineup - not necessarily a second pmd, but I'm not sure that was as important as the type of D they did add in this mix.  Among Hughes, Edler (34 pts in 56 games)  Myers (31 pts) , Stecher (23 pts and looking poised to possibly uptick more - a great trajectory last year) - even Benn not bad production at 22 pts - really, there's only a single relatively purely 'shutdown" D in the lineup (and Tanev has an elite first pass, ability to carry the puck - for a shutdown guy).

I think their transition game will be very solid - even without a Barrie type addition.

 

I wouldn't argue with a countering opinion that there is 'room' for a Barrie, or that his upside might improve the team overall - but all things considered, including the type of terms it will probably take, I'm not really in (and can just imagine what a year of getting ventilated in Toronto will do to him)

[Goal:thecup]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I almost feel bad for the scribe (if it wasn't just meaningless hockey talk and not terribly consequential).

 

He actually has to work that hard to tell himself that Trevor Moore is enough to counter the roster losses, the cap crunch, the lack of depth, the dwindling prospect pool.....

 

I have a good friend - a longtime Leafs fan - under no illusions that Dubas is some kind of kid-genius.  On the other hand, I had a work acquaintance - long-time Leafs fan - that literally had a  meltdown, crying in the workplace, after the Bruins bullied them for the third straight time.

 

That market doesn't need reassuring fluff imo - they need to dig in, get real, get critical - and I mean constructive criticism - not Van-media style mindless sideline wanking.

 

They are giving Dubas the soft-soap pass again - scapegoating their coach - and not really forming expectations that they actually build the depth - and the harder to play against elements - that it takes to be successful in the playoffs.  One Tyson Barrie aint gonna change the underlying weakness of their build.

Too good not to quote.

"reassuring fluff"

"Van-media style mindless sideline wanking"

"soft-soap pass again"

 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, gameburn said:

Beautifully summarized.  

 

Benning is more positive about Eriksson in conversations at least.  But I doubt he plays one more game with the team.  It's the Gagner treatment for this guy I imagine. I think it's the minors and then hope he opts for getting out of his contract.  It is worth noting that Benning managed to trade Gagner for Spooner.   Which seemed like a hockey trade, until the Canucks bought out Spooner.  Which also seemed odd at the time -- why trade for a guy and ten minutes later you buy him out?  I think Spooner's contract was shorter than Gagner's which meant the buyout was practical, unlike the one that would have been needed for Gagner.  So... assuming this is correct, it may be that the Canucks will trade Eriksson to another team for a player with an equally bad contract, but shorter, so more workable for a buyout?

 

Sutter can actually play. You are right.  He probably deserves a chance to play a year of hockey. He is probably motivated too, and he is a Sutter.  This team is starting to look like a team a Sutter would like to play on.

 

Tanev is the best trade material (for a hockey trade, not a money move) and I think will be gone by this year's Trade Deadline. Provided that Woo or Juolevi (or even Tryamkin) can become a regular. Which means, imo, the odds are in favor of a Tanev trade, and earlier than the TDL.  

 

So... if Tanev is traded, then what do we get back?

Assuming the rebuild is over, do they look for a depth forward who is NOT prone to injury?  

Or do they bring back a draft pick or a prospect, because the rebuild is only 90% over?

 

Be careful of your values with Tanev and Sutter..  people in this thread were sketchy of Ferland’s health.

 

Every other team that might have any kind of interest in a player like a Tanev or Sutter will question their injury history, and how dependable they are for an entire season of play.     Risk is a huge factor.

Both players in their past 2 seasons have missed close to, if not, an entire season of play..  and then some.

 

I too hope they come back strong and can hold a position out of Camp,.  because it’s the only way we will be able to evaluate them.

I expect lower values based on their injury history and age, regardless.

      Pedigree’s, account for nothing .. hopefully both are not a complete loss.

 

[SilentSam]

9 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:

The lack of media and fan accountability and realism is what has fed the culture of mediocrity and underachievement in Toronto for decades. Maybe if they stop trying to blame one player (Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, etc.) and start being objective about just how badly Lamoriello, Shanahan, and Dubas have &^@#ed up, they would be able to actually right the ship.

 

Nope, lets go with the blue koolaid.

I think Lamoriello may have seen this Cap dilemma coming for the leafs , tried to address it, and was shot down for it.

[Silver Ghost]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I think Lamoriello may have seen this Cap dilemma coming for the leafs , tried to address it, and was shot down for it.

Lou contributed some bad contracts to the equation too. The Marleau 3 year deal was Lou.

[Phat Fingers]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm not in the Barrie camp.  

 

I don't think the team needs another pmd.  I also like the fact that they have surrounded their 'elite' young core players with the right complements.

It's not just Barrie (that I wouldn't spend the cap on) - I throw the range of Karlssons, etc - or the over-rated Colin MIllers in that category as well.

I think I'd rather see Hughes in the principal play-driving, pmd role / minutes - let him run the powerplay - and evolve and take advantage of his (and EP's) ELCs to fill out the right supporting cast.  I think aside from him they have some good puck moving in the lineup - not necessarily a second pmd, but I'm not sure that was as important as the type of D they did add in this mix.  Among Hughes, Edler (34 pts in 56 games)  Myers (31 pts) , Stecher (23 pts and looking poised to possibly uptick more - a great trajectory last year) - even Benn not bad production at 22 pts - really, there's only a single relatively purely 'shutdown" D in the lineup (and Tanev has an elite first pass, ability to carry the puck - for a shutdown guy).

I think their transition game will be very solid - even without a Barrie type addition.

 

I wouldn't argue with a countering opinion that there is 'room' for a Barrie, or that his upside might improve the team overall - but all things considered, including the type of terms it will probably take, I'm not really in (and can just imagine what a year of getting ventilated in Toronto will do to him)

The next best puck mover in the org is likely OJ.  

 

Agreed, we don't need another Quinn Hughes, we have Quinn Hughes.  

[ilduce39]

On one hand it would be awesome to bring in Barrie to upgrade Tanev or Stecher.. but we do run the risk of icing a lot of smurfs if it’s Tanev who goes out the door and is it worth committing the cap to that area?

 

Assuming this year goes okay with the blue line, we could be due for a pretty big internal upgrade in the form of Juolevi and Tryamkin, too.  If Barrie is brought in as well there would need to be some shuffling. 

[gerry35]

13 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I think Lamoriello may have seen this Cap dilemma coming for the leafs , tried to address it, and was shot down for it.

I was going to say something similar to this, Lou and Hunter would have built a much better team but they chose wrong in Dubas and Shanahan and his "genius" plan

[stanleysteamersmyl]

47 minutes ago, Bubble Man said:

Wow, a lot of baseless assumptions 

 

This reminds of when I took 2 candles, put them in front of a mirror, in a dark room, at midnight, when the moon was full. I said “bloody Mary” 3 times and nothing happened. 

 

Just because you believe it will happen, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. A lot of these assumptions are pure witchcraft. 

It's Bubbles.

 

[gerry35]

9 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:

Lou contributed some bad contracts to the equation too. The Marleau 3 year deal was Lou.

I would counter by saying Marleau was actually a decent contract, it's everything else since then that was a disaster.

[PhillipBlunt]

14 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

The Leafs are going to get their asses handed to them when they meet the Canucks this season. These subterranean leaf blowers are genetic mistakes that operate with no basis in facts. They ape the same tired analysis that all the other geeks do, never having played a single game. 

[Silver Ghost]

1 minute ago, gerry35 said:

I would counter by saying Marleau was actually a decent contract, it's everything else since then that was a disaster.

The combination of inept GM'ing though made them have to sell that contract for a 1st round pick. 

[PhillipBlunt]

35 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I almost feel bad for the scribe (if it wasn't just meaningless hockey talk and not terribly consequential).

 

He actually has to work that hard to tell himself that Trevor Moore is enough to counter the roster losses, the cap crunch, the lack of depth, the dwindling prospect pool.....

 

I have a good friend - a longtime Leafs fan - under no illusions that Dubas is some kind of kid-genius.  On the other hand, I had a work acquaintance - long-time Leafs fan - that literally had a  meltdown, crying in the workplace, after the Bruins bullied them for the third straight time.

 

That market doesn't need reassuring fluff imo - they need to dig in, get real, get critical - and I mean constructive criticism - not Van-media style mindless sideline wanking.

 

They are giving Dubas the soft-soap pass again - scapegoating their coach - and not really forming expectations that they actually build the depth - and the harder to play against elements - that it takes to be successful in the playoffs.  One Tyson Barrie aint gonna change the underlying weakness of their build.

Leafs fans crying in the workplace. Why am I not surprised at all?

[gerry35]

Just now, Silver Ghost said:

The combination of inept GM'ing though made them have to sell that contract for a 1st round pick. 

I would place that mostly on the current guys when they signed Tavares and gave that floater Nylander 7 mil instead of trading him.

[Silver Ghost]

1 minute ago, gerry35 said:

I would place that mostly on the current guys when they signed Tavares and gave that floater Nylander 7 mil instead of trading him.

Most but not all. I would agree with that.

 

Dubas is the most overrated GM in the league imo. Those two signings, plus Toronto going down the insane path that Matthews is better than Marner and deserves more money, are the biggest reasons Marner remains unsigned. 

 

If Dubas was truly smart, he would trade Nylander right now, get Marner signed, and start trying to actually recover from the tire fire summer he has had. His ego andbelieving his own press - " We wont have to trade anyone!!!!" - is proving to be his weakness.

 

Except a lot of teams dont want Nylander at 7 mil I bet. 

[oldnews]

19 minutes ago, Silver Ghost said:

The lack of media and fan accountability and realism is what has fed the culture of mediocrity and underachievement in Toronto for decades. Maybe if they stop trying to blame one player (Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, etc.) and start being objective about just how badly Lamoriello, Shanahan, and Dubas have &^@#ed up, they would be able to actually right the ship.

 

Nope, lets go with the blue koolaid.

Exactly.

 

It's Gardiner's fault!  Year after year - and yet, the attention to that blueline was lacking again and again.  Gardiner Dermott 3rd pairing - sheltered and still rekt in the playoffs.

It's Zaitsev's fault!  Ditto - he's your principal shutdown D on a team that lacks shutdown forwards.  Go figure.

It's Babcock's fault... he needed D - he was given depth C rentals.  And then he needed a depth C rental - and he was given nothing.  Three straight years of general, but particularly deadline, failures for Dubas et al.

 

Can't blame Kessel or Phaneuf contracts - and then turn around and...Marleau was this administration's brlliant idea - to give 18+ million to a great player, but a 37 year old that had notably been decling for a couple seasons.  That - right in the heart of what they considered an emerging contending window - one in which they also, critically failed to add their principal needs.   If they add Marleau, but address their holes, it aint such an issue - but that aint what happened.  Wadr, that is so much more ill-advised than signing a Loui Eriksson - a 30 yr old - coming off a 63 pt season - as a veteran placeholder through a transition where the other principal veteran forwards were slated to retire.....Still not a move to endorse in hindsight - but relatively - the Marleau deal was just....foolish - another roadblock in the 'window'.

 

It cost them a 1st - when they are in a cap crunch - those are the futures that potentially give you a few future ELCs to relieve cap tightness.

Benning may have spent a 1st on Miller - but Benning has a pretty steady stream of futures in the pipeline.   The Leafs on the other hand, have been bleeding futures (a 1st for expiring Muzzin as well - and prospects), numerous prospects and young roster players in other deals (Brown, Grundstrom, Durzi, Leivo, a 2nd to rent Plekanec, a 2nd to rent Boyle)....

I don't mean to disrespect their borderline league minimum signings - but building your team that way - is what Benning go ripped for in the midst of transition - the Megnas, etc  - who were whipping boys here - but at a stage when the team was restocking the cupboards and placeholding when results were not that important (how they approached competing was - but anyone that believes the intent was to make another Cup Run watch too much Faux News).

 

 

 

[gerry35]

1 minute ago, Silver Ghost said:

Most but not all. I would agree with that.

 

Dubas is the most overrated GM in the league imo. Those two signings, plus Toronto going down the insane path that Matthews is better than Marner and deserves more money, are the biggest reasons Marner remains unsigned. 

 

If Dubas was truly smart, he would trade Nylander right now, get Marner signed, and start trying to actually recover from the tire fire summer he has had. His ego andbelieving his own press - " We wont have to trade anyone!!!!" - is proving to be his weakness.

 

Except a lot of teams dont want Nylander at 7 mil I bet. 

I agree on all counts.