[Signing] Coyotes re-sign Clayton Keller

[86Viking]

56 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

I wouldn't draft Keller on my fantasy team...

He may have a decent year with Kessel? Just not a guy you take early that's all

[dontaylorforprez]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

Why?

 

At most it likely puts him at $7.5m +/-. And then, only on an EIGHT year deal.

 

Rumours were that Boeser's agent was asking for +/- $7m on a 4-5 year deal. 

I was only asking cause of what Keller put up last year, that got him this contract... brock had better numbers, in less games (30-40 less gp than Keller) therefor, would be paid accordingly.. right? I know about the number 7/4. I am just curious if that jump in points would (stupidly) raise Brock’s price tag?

[Outsiders]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Well not unless you  think their prime includes several years into their 30’s.  Prime now is considered around 24-28 years old.

 

In Brock’s example, if you sign him to the reported 4 year bridge contract he is seeking... he is 26 when his contract is up.

 

He will then negotiate for a max term deal that takes him to 34... which is probably going to be an overpayment on the back half as his production is likely to drop as he ages.

 

Signing him to an 8 year deal now takes him to 30 (all of his prime years) and he has little chance of cashing in on a big contract after that.

I'm in the camp that I'd rather just pay the guy now than have to later. 8x8 would be my offer. With the cap expected to go up a lot over the next few years, this will be a good deal by year 3 or 4. Then for the last 4-5 years you have a great deal and can sign other players to help you win since you are saving 3-4 million essentially . It would suck to give him 7 million on a 4 year deal to then have to pay him 10-12 million later on a 6-8 year deal(Depends how much cap goes up). Playing with Pettersson who IMO will be a top 10 player in the league in 2-3 seasons I can't see Boeser not hitting close to 40 goals every year if he's healthy. He going to get big dollars anyhow why not save the extra money now? 

[Provost]

25 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

I'm in the camp that I'd rather just pay the guy now than have to later. 8x8 would be my offer. With the cap expected to go up a lot over the next few years, this will be a good deal by year 3 or 4. Then for the last 4-5 years you have a great deal and can sign other players to help you win since you are saving 3-4 million essentially . It would suck to give him 7 million on a 4 year deal to then have to pay him 10-12 million later on a 6-8 year deal(Depends how much cap goes up). Playing with Pettersson who IMO will be a top 10 player in the league in 2-3 seasons I can't see Boeser not hitting close to 40 goals every year if he's healthy. He going to get big dollars anyhow why not save the extra money now? 

I agree.  If we can’t get him on a long term deal, get a a 2-3 year deal so that it comes up before the expected salary cap inflation.

 

Not only the new US TV deal, but also gambling revenue and the possibility the players invoke opening the CBA for getting other revenue added into the hockey related revenue calculation.

 

The keys to teams winning the Cup seems to be paying their top players market rates (at the time of signing) on long term deals, and letting inflation turn those deals into bargains. 

 

Go see how little guys like Ovechkin, Crosby, etc were making during their Cup years compared with what they would cost in current day salaries.  Those bargains allowed those teams to fill in roster holes with other quality players

[KirkSave]

1 hour ago, Canuckster86 said:

He may have a decent year with Kessel? Just not a guy you take early that's all

Playing time with Kessel should give Keller a nice increase in his apples.

 

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that 2 years worth of hockey gets a young man that sort of deal. Keller had a good first year and and ok year last season, as far as point production goes. Aside from Kessel, Keller is their best forward but man, 7.15 per is just WOW.

 

*Could be a good sleep pick, lol

[Provost]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

 

Only a professor would find a way to argue, actually merely sidestep, something so simple.

 

A bridge does not preclude a team from locking up their stars through their prime.

 

The whole "lock up your stars through their prime" is not a counterpoint to a bridge contract = should be easy to understand, even for a professor.

 

'Wrong, wrong, wrong'....says the professor...'do your homework!'  Keller is 21!!!zzz    And if it were a 4 yr bridge (a rarity - most bridges are 2 or 3 years - hence the idea of a 'bridge' whereas 4 years is more of a mid-term deal) and then sign him to a maximum length term, they may lock him up beyond his 'primez'!!  I stand corrected.   A 'bridge' does preclude a team from locking a player up through their prime.  Thanks for the 'schooling'.

 

You;'re always good for a laugh though, but essentially a waste of time - who can't identify or engage with the issue / the point.  Well done with correcting Keller's age though - you are right, right, right, and a genius.

 

 

 

 

It is such a waste of time responding to you.  Anyone interested can go back and read the full posts and not your cherry picked little segments and see that you were wrong in “correcting” the poster... then wrong again by asserting that Keller would come out of his long term deal at 28 when he will be 30.

 

Then your old schtick of personal attacks and playing the victim when folks show that your are wrong.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Provost

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Borvat said:

Based on the upside down market maybe things have reversed.  Trade the overpriced RFA's for futures - picks and prospects - and sign the proven UFA's at a discount.

 

Based on what RFA's are getting maybe the way to go is ELC's and UFA's.  Wait until the NHLPA figures this out maybe they will throw the youngin's under the bus in the next negotiation it is a union.

Problem is GMs can’t help themselves and still pay way to much for past production.  The league can’t afford both but it’s the middling players that will end up eating it in the end.  Shorter careers in favour of borderline NHLers and guys on ELCs.   Already guys that would normally get two or three years are getting one instead.  And the impact isn’t as great as it will in in one or two years.  On the Keller deal, he’s got a quality winger now in Kessel - good chance he’s a PPG this year and for the majority of the deal.  For perspective he had a good rookie year (fantastic actually) and last year wasn’t terrible taking on first line duties with little to work with.    This was a smart move for the long and middle term Chayka sees where things are headed and was proactive....if he gets 85 points this year and signed him at the end of the year he might of had to do an AHO deal.

[86Viking]

14 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

Playing time with Kessel should give Keller a nice increase in his apples.

 

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that 2 years worth of hockey gets a young man that sort of deal. Keller had a good first year and and ok year last season, as far as point production goes. Aside from Kessel, Keller is their best forward but man, 7.15 per is just WOW.

 

*Could be a good sleep pick, lol

Arizona has a hard time keeping players or attracting quality UFA. Maybe they are going to change that and try and hope AM wants to go home when his contract is up in TO. I would love to see that personally, so anti LAFFs!

[King Heffy]

21 minutes ago, Provost said:

I agree.  If we can’t get him on a long term deal, get a a 2-3 year deal so that it comes up before the expected salary cap inflation.

 

Not only the new US TV deal, but also gambling revenue and the possibility the players invoke opening the CBA for getting other revenue added into the hockey related revenue calculation.

 

The keys to teams winning the Cup seems to be paying their top players market rates (at the time of signing) on long term deals, and letting inflation turn those deals into bargains. 

 

Go see how little guys like Ovechkin, Crosby, etc were making during their Cup years compared with what they would cost in current day salaries.  Those bargains allowed those teams to fill in roster holes with other quality players

Yep.  MacKinnon and Landeskog with Colorado is probably the most obvious example.  Lock up the guys you want to build around long-term, and actually build around them.  I'm all for a little overpayment for Brock now for a bargain on the back end of his contract.

[Alflives]

Way too much for a guy who is an average support player at best.  His points dropped a lot, and he was a minus 21.  Add to that he’s a Smurf.  Smurfs who put up 50 points while being minus 20 are kind of worth nothing if a team is trying to win.  This contract is insane.  

[.Naslund]

41 minutes ago, Provost said:

It is such a waste of time responding to you.  Anyone interested can go back and read the full posts and not your cherry picked little segments and see that you were wrong in “correcting” the poster... then wrong again by asserting that Keller would come out of his long term deal at 28 when he will be 30.

 

Then your old schtick of personal attacks and playing the victim when folks show that your are wrong.

Just don't engage him. I chose to ignore him as well. You made a lot of good points throughout the last couple of pages totally agreed. They locked up their franchise player at 7millish until he's 30, as opposed to giving him a bridge, watching him explode and then paying him 10 mill+ per season into his mid thirties. 

[Outsiders]

57 minutes ago, Provost said:

I agree.  If we can’t get him on a long term deal, get a a 2-3 year deal so that it comes up before the expected salary cap inflation.

 

Not only the new US TV deal, but also gambling revenue and the possibility the players invoke opening the CBA for getting other revenue added into the hockey related revenue calculation.

 

The keys to teams winning the Cup seems to be paying their top players market rates (at the time of signing) on long term deals, and letting inflation turn those deals into bargains. 

 

Go see how little guys like Ovechkin, Crosby, etc were making during their Cup years compared with what they would cost in current day salaries.  Those bargains allowed those teams to fill in roster holes with other quality players

Agree 100% but that isn't allowed on CDC so 99%!!!

[86Viking]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Way too much for a guy who is an average support player at best.  His points dropped a lot, and he was a minus 21.  Add to that he’s a Smurf.  Smurfs who put up 50 points while being minus 20 are kind of worth nothing if a team is trying to win.  This contract is insane.  

Bit harsh no? We have a smaller smurf on D that everyone is clamoring is going to win the Calder and be such an amazing franchise D for us.

 

Keller has no quality teammates, now he has a bonafide player in Kessel, be interesting to see if he can get 60-70pts with Kessel.

[Devron]

This contract actually makes me sick. It’s like he looked at Dubas and was like I’ll take your Nylander deal and raise you 200k oh wait why not just go all in. What could go wrong. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Canuckster86 said:

Bit harsh no? We have a smaller smurf on D that everyone is clamoring is going to win the Calder and be such an amazing franchise D for us.

 

Keller has no quality teammates, now he has a bonafide player in Kessel, be interesting to see if he can get 60-70pts with Kessel.

If Keller puts up 65 points with Kessel, but is a minus 30, how does that help his team win?  He’s a small, soft, perimeter player, who can’t play without the puck.  He’s not a centre, but is expected to be one.  I don’t think I’m being harsh.  It’s an insane contract for his type of player.  

[86Viking]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Keller puts up 65 points with Kessel, but is a minus 30, how does that help his team win?  He’s a small, soft, perimeter player, who can’t play without the puck.  He’s not a centre, but is expected to be one.  I don’t think I’m being harsh.  It’s an insane contract for his type of player.  

It was brought to my attention he didnt play C for them. Not all players with a decent sized contract can be a plus 30 and be offensive. Also, if he has played pk then that could hurt his stat line too.

 

But Im not going to get into it with you, I usually dont mind what you say but your a bit harsh on a young kid who broke into the league earlier than expected. Still is a quality player, just needs a better overall team around him to help imo

[Fishon]

53 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Keller puts up 65 points with Kessel, but is a minus 30, how does that help his team win?  He’s a small, soft, perimeter player, who can’t play without the puck.  He’s not a centre, but is expected to be one.  I don’t think I’m being harsh.  It’s an insane contract for his type of player.  

Have you ever really watched Keller play? The guy is a puck hound and pushes play! I wanted him over olli when we drafted! Would take him over most of the guys on the Canucks 

[RRypien37]

11 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

This looks good for us with Boeser. 

Uhh..how? Boeser is clearly the superior scorer so far and has put up much better numbers in comparison vs first 2 season. Arizona overpays everyone though so irrelevant. 

[RRypien37]

11 hours ago, Odd. said:

47 points gets you that contract? 

 

Jesus christ.

 

11 hours ago, CanuckGAME said:

47 points last year.  $7.15 million.

 

Chayka really just ****ed everyone.  What a joke.

 

11 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

Too rich for my blood.  Are hockey GM's really this daft of are they just spineless?

Arizona Affect. Standard over payment from them. 

[Sean Monahan]

8 minutes ago, RRypien37 said:

Uhh..how? Boeser is clearly the superior scorer so far and has put up much better numbers in comparison vs first 2 season. Arizona overpays everyone though so irrelevant. 

Same point totals in the last two seasons while on a weaker offensive team. He led his team in scoring each of the last two years. His PPG is lower but the fact that he hasn’t missed a game in that time counts for a lot. He’s also able to slot in at centre at times which (I imagine) would up his value a bit. I expect his point totals to climb this year playing with Phil the Thrill. 

 

Not to mention the fact he signed long term.