[PGT] Dallas Stars at Vancouver Canucks | Nov. 14, 2019

[Hairy Kneel]

Just now, Alflives said:

He's retired, so has no contract.  Could we trade the cap penalty?  

I think that's what I mean. Rights or whatever.

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

We are only 20 games into an 82 season and Elias Pettersson ( 24 points ), JT Miller ( 19 points ), and Brock Boeser ( 19 points ) are still 1-2-3 in Canucks scoring. In Boston, they rode their top line and continue to do so, regardless of what's happening on the other lines. This is the mentality the Canucks need to have to win instead of trying to balance the lines and then going on losing streaks. 

Has Boston lost two valuable centermen and have young players throughout their lineup? When we start getting bodies back, we will get our structure back. It doesn't help when guys like EP and Gaudette haven't been strong on faceoffs. Green is trying to keep at least 3 lines that can hopefully win possession. It may or may not work, doesn't mean it's not worth trying especially when trying to break down a trap team. It almost worked as we broke through and evened up the game, but the team was making some costly errors.

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

He's retired, so has no contract.  Could we trade the cap penalty?  

Wasn't Datsyuk traded under similar circumstances? With that said, I wouldn't do it unless we are desperate.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I think that's what I mean. Rights or whatever.

Since he's retired, there is no contract to trade.  I seriously doubt we could trade the penalty, but it would be great if we could.  Hopefully the league does the right thing, and forgives that penalty, especially now that Lou is working in FLA's management in a fake job, so he can collect the money he was owed.  It's really bad optics for the corruption that exists at the NHL office.  

[WHL rocks]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

I'm not so sure that they're firing on all cylinders, but rather have adopted a trap game. Seems like more teams are trending to this since it worked so well for NYI last season carrying into this season. It's unfortunate from an entertainment standpoint.

Everygood team plays very good defensive hockey. That's why they win

 

 

You still have to play very good hockey to win. If just turning to trap system made a team play .900 hockey, every team in the league would be playing the exact same system. 

 

DAL has a very good trasitional game. They are patient but they make you pay as soon as they get the puck it's quickly moved up the ice. Very good transition game. Creates odd man rushes.

 

Heiskanen is a heck of a player. Reminds me of a young Lidstrom. They have a good group of forwards too.. they're PK is excellent top 5 in nhl...It's a good team playing great hockey right now... 

9-1-1 last 11 games.. 

 

[wloutet]

A worrying thing I see is happening in Canuck games. They miss a lot of passes, maybe they are trying to stretch things a bit too much. Also, they have seem to be able to get only one shot away, and then the puck is lost and brought out. They have not been good at getting sustained pressure in the offensive zone and multiple shots away. The Sedins were able to get the sustained pressure, but did not shoot enough. Hope things turn around on both of these things.

[AnotherCanucksFan]

2 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Has Boston lost two valuable centermen and have young players throughout their lineup? When we start getting bodies back, we will get our structure back. It doesn't help when guys like EP and Gaudette haven't been strong on faceoffs. Green is trying to keep at least 3 lines that can hopefully win possession. It may or may not work, doesn't mean it's not worth trying especially when trying to break down a trap team. It almost worked as we broke through and evened up the game, but the team was making some costly errors.

It's true there's some differences in terms of injuries. Boston in general is an older team, but if you look at Boston / Vancouver player stats and ages, there's a mix of older / younger on both teams. As several commentators have also mentioned, it especially doesn't make sense to try to support 3 lines instead of relying on the strength of the 649 line. Different approaches. I still think Vancouver needs to worry less about balancing the lines and more on scoring goals and winning games.

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

Everygood team plays very good defensive hockey. That's why they win

 

 

You still have to play very good hockey to win. If just turning to trap system made a team play .900 hockey, every team in the league would be playing the exact same system. 

 

DAL has a very good trasitional game. They are patient but they make you pay as soon as they get the puck it's quickly moved up the ice. Very good transition game. Creates odd man rushes.

 

Heiskanen is a heck of a player. Reminds me of a young Lidstrom. They have a good group of forwards too.. they're PK is excellent top 5 in nhl...It's a good team playing great hockey right now... 

9-1-1 last 11 games.. 

 

That's the definition of the trap. But yes having that good transition is what makes it more effective. Some teams like to go full throttle on offense and can still be effective (see TB). The league has been wanting to increase offense for entertainment and get out of the early 2000s boring trap hockey. It seems the trap is still effective and teams want to win (who can blame them for that), but it just leads to less entertaining games.

[Nucker 67]

49 minutes ago, Tystick said:

Give Dallas credit though, they were fore-checking relentlessly all game.

We had very little room to work with.

And they were playing the 2nd game of a back-to-back (beat CGY the night before). No excuses for the Canucks not to win this game. I think that bad goal on DAL's 2nd shot put them behind the 8-ball early and they couldn't get any momentum.

[theo5789]

2 minutes ago, AnotherCanucksFan said:

It's true there's some differences in terms of injuries. Boston in general is an older team, but if you look at Boston / Vancouver player stats and ages, there's a mix of older / younger on both teams. As several commentators have also mentioned, it especially doesn't make sense to try to support 3 lines instead of relying on the strength of the 649 line. Different approaches. I still think Vancouver needs to worry less about balancing the lines and more on scoring goals and winning games.

The major difference is depth. They have the depth to support them maintaining their top line. We don't and the lotto line has been less effective during this tough stretch we've been in because teams are shutting them down. We don't have a legit 4th line (played only 6 minutes last night) and the 3rd is being bolstered by a young guy that needs support on faceoffs and a player that we recently waived to start the season. We aren't going to roll 2 lines only. We simply need to get some bodies back before being able to revert back to the system Green has been deploying from the start.

[WHL rocks]

10 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

That's the definition of the trap. But yes having that good transition is what makes it more effective. Some teams like to go full throttle on offense and can still be effective (see TB). The league has been wanting to increase offense for entertainment and get out of the early 2000s boring trap hockey. It seems the trap is still effective and teams want to win (who can blame them for that), but it just leads to less entertaining games.

Ya it's never going to be taken out. Lou Lamariello won 3 cups in NYJ in the 90s. They played the trap. MTL was playing trap for decades. Bowman won Cups with it.

 

Defensive systems will always win cups as they always have.. 

 

Every team defends buy moving the play to weak side lock. I don't know any team that doesn't use some aspects of it. Especially when leading and protection a lead..

 

The Capitals are loaded with talent they just won the cup by playing trap to perfection. But you need talent too. Can't win if you don't have top tier players who can capitalize on turnovers and move the puck.

 

 

DAL is doing that right now. Hence 9-1-1 record last 11 games..

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by WHL rocks

[theo5789]

4 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Ya it's never going to be taken out. Lou Lamariello won 3 cups in NYJ in the 90s. They played the trap. MTL was playing trap for decades. Bowman won Cups with it.

 

Defensive systems will always win cups as they always have.. 

 

Every team defends buy moving the play to weak side lock. I don't know any team that doesn't use some aspects of it.

 

But that's what I'm saying. The league wanted a shift away from it and some teams appeared to have tried, but look to be reverting back. Some aspects remained, but the suffocating system wasn't always in play. The trend seems to be to go back to it because it wins games. Good for the teams that do it effectively, bad for entertainment.

[qwijibo]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Since he's retired, there is no contract to trade.  I seriously doubt we could trade the penalty, but it would be great if we could.  Hopefully the league does the right thing, and forgives that penalty, especially now that Lou is working in FLA's management in a fake job, so he can collect the money he was owed.  It's really bad optics for the corruption that exists at the NHL office.  

How exactly is a Luongo working for Florida bad optics?   If I’m not mistaken they have a $1m/season recapture penalty associated with the Luongo  contract as well.  Him taking a job with them is fine.

 

 I don’t agree with the after the fact recapture penalty.  But teams did knowingly try to circumvent the cap. Vancouver, Florida, and L.A. are now paying the price.  With a few more potential teams to join them. A former player taking a new position with his team post retirement is nothing new, not is it anything sinister 

[Nucker 67]

What are the chances Green gives Markstrom the start against COL on HNIC?

 

If that happens and they lose that game, I may find myself on the Fire Green bandwagon. I think Markstrom needs some time to re-focus, get his head straight. Why wouldn't Green start his best goalie (Demko) against one of the better teams? I guess we'll see who starts tomorrow.

[milk and honey]

Canucks don't suck but they aren't good. They might be playoff good with some luck but yikes this team got a ways to go before contending. 

[bree2]

23 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

How exactly is a Luongo working for Florida bad optics?   If I’m not mistaken they have a $1m/season recapture penalty associated with the Luongo  contract as well.  Him taking a job with them is fine.

 

 I don’t agree with the after the fact recapture penalty.  But teams did knowingly try to circumvent the cap. Vancouver, Florida, and L.A. are now paying the price.  With a few more potential teams to join them. A former player taking a new position with his team post retirement is nothing new, not is it anything sinister 

actually no, it was legal until Bettman said it wasn't!!!

[WHL rocks]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

But that's what I'm saying. The league wanted a shift away from it and some teams appeared to have tried, but look to be reverting back. Some aspects remained, but the suffocating system wasn't always in play. The trend seems to be to go back to it because it wins games. Good for the teams that do it effectively, bad for entertainment.

I agree it can be bad for entertainment. But the Capitals won the cup using trap. And it was very entertaining hockey..

 

There are always 2 or 3 teams who use it every year.

ARZ NYI WPG all using it . 

 

In playoffs almost every team uses it in some manner. If Canucks make the playoffs you can be sure Green will use it..

 

Dead puck era was by design. Euros started coming over scoring like no one's business. Gretzky had 92 one year but Mogilny had 76g his 3rd or 4th  year. Sellane had 76 his rookie season. Bure did 25 reps of 225 lbs bench press while our boys couldn't do 5 reps. 

 

So they changed the rules to make the game slow and rigid. Lemeiux and Gretzky complained but we didn't have these super skilled kids coming up. Our boys were big slow not very skilled. 

 

Dead puck era they made the O zone smaller by few feet. Made more room behind the net. Goalie equipment larger. Changed delayed offside rules.. there was no thing as hooking and holding. You can grab onto a player and ride him around no call.. it was all by design. 

 

Then we had a hockey summit to initiate a plan to re haul our training methods.. we sent ppl to Europe and Russia to learn their training methods. Took 15+ yrs for our  kids to be skilled. They tried to open it up by calling hooking and holding but it would revert back by xmas.

 

Then slowly changed the rules back and brought in 2 line pass to make offensive again. 

 

I don't see a dead puck era happening again for the foreseeable future. Our country is producing kids like McDavid now. And NHL is so international now and such a huge businesses. 

 

It's a different world now all the junior kids play each other training methods are similar thru out the world..

 

Ya so the trap system wasn't the reason for dead puck era. There was a lot more to it..the trap was successful in that type of hockey because players could hook and hold , the game was slowed down by those rules and the ozone was so small that it was a very useful system. 

[WHL rocks]

15 minutes ago, milk and honey said:

Canucks don't suck but they aren't good. They might be playoff good with some luck but yikes this team got a ways to go before contending. 

I don't think any one thought other wise.. maybe @apollo but he thinks we're winning the cup every year..  

 

At best win a round or two IF we can get a winger for Horvat. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by WHL rocks

[JM_]

1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

I don't think any one thought other wise.. maybe @apollo but he thinks we're winning the cup every year..  

 

At best win a round or two IF we can get a winger for Horvat. 

don't you think that could still be Pearson? its seems to me like Green is mixing up Bo's line far too much. I'd like him to just leave Pearson-Bo-Jake together for say a month and let them develop some real chemistry. 

[spook007]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

don't you think that could still be Pearson? its seems to me like Green is mixing up Bo's line far too much. I'd like him to just leave Pearson-Bo-Jake together for say a month and let them develop some real chemistry. 

Bo must be so fed up with this constant changing of wingers... and none of them top class...

Leave Jake and Pearson with him, unless he want to try the old triple B line...