The Everything Bitcoin Thread

[Boudrias]

8 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

To quote Bill Gates “crypto is 100% based on greater fool theory”

I can see the relevance of block chain technology and bought MSFT stock because of it. I never understood the utility of bitcoin or it's derivatives. The scale of capital that has gone into crypto is stunning. $8 trillion? If crypto is truly a challenge to the money printed by governments then governments will move in an and regulate it if they don't in fact take it over.  

[Boudrias]

Staggering number of deaths associated with crypto. People involved are dying or disappearing. 

1) 2018: Gerald Colton, 30 years old; dead or disappeared; $170 million missing

2) 2018: Matt Mellon, 54 years old; dead, drugs?, $1 billion missing

3) 2022: Mushegian, 29 years old; original investor, dead

4) 2022: Kullander, 29 years old; dead or missing? amount missing unknown

Murky detail about this industry. New forecasts that Bitcoin will drop to $8,000 and more bankruptcies. It is like Lake Mead. As the water drops more skeletons are exposed. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

6 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Staggering number of deaths associated with crypto. People involved are dying or disappearing. 

1) 2018: Gerald Colton, 30 years old; dead or disappeared; $170 million missing

2) 2018: Matt Mellon, 54 years old; dead, drugs?, $1 billion missing

3) 2022: Mushegian, 29 years old; original investor, dead

4) 2022: Kullander, 29 years old; dead or missing? amount missing unknown

Murky detail about this industry. New forecasts that Bitcoin will drop to $8,000 and more bankruptcies. It is like Lake Mead. As the water drops more skeletons are exposed. 

Is 4 deaths in 4 years really all that staggering? Not sure what your point is here.

[Boudrias]

16 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Is 4 deaths in 4 years really all that staggering? Not sure what your point is here.

My point being these were young people who either died or disappeared. They were people of note within the crypto world. Their assets were largely crypto, much of which cannot be accounted for. 

[ronthecivil]

On 12/1/2022 at 5:10 AM, Boudrias said:

I can see the relevance of block chain technology and bought MSFT stock because of it. I never understood the utility of bitcoin or it's derivatives. The scale of capital that has gone into crypto is stunning. $8 trillion? If crypto is truly a challenge to the money printed by governments then governments will move in an and regulate it if they don't in fact take it over.  

Of course knowing lots of antivaxxers, I of course have met lots of Crypto pumpers since I do like to talk about investing. They didn't seem to like my view stolen from Warren Buffet that it doesn't do anything. I would get derision of "I don't understand". The big theory was that it was "the future of money" meant nothing to me. I don't believe in money either! (See inflation thread).

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Of course knowing lots of antivaxxers, I of course have met lots of Crypto pumpers since I do like to talk about investing. They didn't seem to like my view stolen from Warren Buffet that it doesn't do anything. I would get derision of "I don't understand". The big theory was that it was "the future of money" meant nothing to me. I don't believe in money either! (See inflation thread).

I think the argument is that it is a more accessible medium of exchange, particularly in areas of the world that are seeing hyperinflation due to gov policies (see turkey, venezuala etc). The people have no control over their centralized currency. Furthermore, it's an easy way to send funds person-person without involving a bank and all the fees, wait times, and hassle that comes with it.

 

As an industry it is obviously still in the infancy stage and all of the aforementioned sounds good in theory. Whether or not it matures to that will depend on the regulations to come. When you say that 'you don't believe in money', I'm assuming you mean fiat currency. Fiat has it's short comings as we are all seeing with inflation. 'Their' target is 2% inflation, so even in best case scenario the currency gets inflated away. But we do need some form of currency but the problem with fiat (other than perpetual inflation) is that the decisions of centralized entities often end up leading to the little guy getting screwed through no fault of their own; we are seeing it now and we saw it in the 2008 GFC (decisions of the few f***ing the many).

 

My opinion is more agnostic. There is a use case for centralization in some areas but I can certainly see the use case for decentralization as well. There are a lot of ways in which btc is superior to fiat currency. It's more divisible and more easily transferable. It could play a large role in international trade. How would you send 20000 CAD to someone in Korea? You'd have to do an international wire transfer which not only takes forever but there are also fees at both ends. A btc (or eth or whatever other cypto) transfer takes out the middleman.

 

With all of that being said, these calls for $1million bitcoin are largely ridiculous, at least in the medium term. Adoption has to grow with each halving in order for bitcoin to succeed. Cryptocurrencies are a tool, much like gold, silver, cash etc. The use case for that tool is yet to be determined. Bitcoin may turn into nothing more than a risk-on asset to trade.

[ronthecivil]

21 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I think the argument is that it is a more accessible medium of exchange, particularly in areas of the world that are seeing hyperinflation due to gov policies (see turkey, venezuala etc). The people have no control over their centralized currency. Furthermore, it's an easy way to send funds person-person without involving a bank and all the fees, wait times, and hassle that comes with it.

 

As an industry it is obviously still in the infancy stage and all of the aforementioned sounds good in theory. Whether or not it matures to that will depend on the regulations to come. When you say that 'you don't believe in money', I'm assuming you mean fiat currency. Fiat has it's short comings as we are all seeing with inflation. 'Their' target is 2% inflation, so even in best case scenario the currency gets inflated away. But we do need some form of currency but the problem with fiat (other than perpetual inflation) is that the decisions of centralized entities often end up leading to the little guy getting screwed through no fault of their own; we are seeing it now and we saw it in the 2008 GFC (decisions of the few f***ing the many).

 

My opinion is more agnostic. There is a use case for centralization in some areas but I can certainly see the use case for decentralization as well. There are a lot of ways in which btc is superior to fiat currency. It's more divisible and more easily transferable. It could play a large role in international trade. How would you send 20000 CAD to someone in Korea? You'd have to do an international wire transfer which not only takes forever but there are also fees at both ends. A btc (or eth or whatever other cypto) transfer takes out the middleman.

 

With all of that being said, these calls for $1million bitcoin are largely ridiculous, at least in the medium term. Adoption has to grow with each halving in order for bitcoin to succeed. Cryptocurrencies are a tool, much like gold, silver, cash etc. The use case for that tool is yet to be determined. Bitcoin may turn into nothing more than a risk-on asset to trade.

Well a global digital type currency is perhaps not a terrible idea but "investing" in it by buying it is simply, at best, forex speculation. And people that did are taking a bath right now.

 

And yes, cash, I don't believe in. I tend to have as little as possible. I would prefer to own assets. Depending on what it's for, and the ability to serve it with the cash I don't want anyways, I am not even that afraid of debt, depending on what it's for.

 

If I had to send money to Korea, I would just use whatever service was the cheapest. If you had to bitcoin, you are doing the process twice. 

 

The whole "there's a limit to how many Bitcoin there possibly can be!" is really quite silly. Your not going to send 20k (or whatever the wild swing on it is) to Korea. Your going to send a fraction of a Bitcoin. There's plenty of room to have inflation by just getting less Bitcoin instead.....

 

So while the global currency market can be improved, it's not going to be done by a shadowy group of decentralised people with no accountability on the system. It will remain the medium for kookes, speculators, and the criminal market trying not to be traced.

[nuckin_futz]

Goldman Sachs plans spend of "tens of millions" of $ to buy or invest in crypto

Reuters carry the report on the plans from investment bank Goldman Sachs, planning large-scale cryptocurrency investment after the collapse of FTX has hit valuations and investor interest.

 

Mathew McDermott, Goldman's head of digital assets, spoke with Reuters:

• Goldman is doing due diligence on a number of different crypto firms, FTX's implosion has heightened the need for more trustworthy, regulated cryptocurrency players, sees an opportunity to pick up business
• "We do see some really interesting opportunities, priced much more sensibly"
• the underlying technology continues to perform

*****************

 

Kind of surprised there was no noticeable spike in price upon this news. You'd think this would be a pretty big endorsement.

[The Arrogant Worms]

Goldman Sachs Is Not Crypto’s White Knight

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenehrlich/2022/12/06/goldman-sachs-is-not-cryptos-white-knight/?sh=74d227dd5300

 

Hopes were raised earlier today when a report came out from Reuters claiming that the firm is planning to spend “tens of millions of dollars to buy or invest in crypto companies” in the midst of a market reset following the FTX collapse. Interested parties are likely to be disappointed.

 

“There’s no allocation,” says a source familiar with the company. In addition, Goldman is unlikely to be pursuing wholesale acquisitions of troubled firms. “Consistent with what they have done today, it is really just thinking about minority investments.”

 

But the fact that the bank did not put together a specific pocket of funds to go crypto bargain hunting does not mean that it wants to sit on the sidelines.

 

On the contrary, the source said, Goldman is looking to be opportunistic if it comes across a firm that fits within its mission of building the underlying blockchain and digital asset infrastructure that the company hopes will form the basis of capital markets in years ahead. Areas of potential interest include intraday repo agreements and derivatives collateralization, but likely not troubled bitcoin miners, lenders or centralized exchanges.

 

“With cheap money coming to an end and valuations rebasing, they continue to seek out opportunities with the underlying technology that can positively transform the financial markets,” says the source. “Really from their perspective, nothing has changed in terms of modus operandi.”

 

In fact, the company has been an investor in the crypto industry over the years, purchasing minority holdings in firms ranging from crypto custodian Anchorage to TRM Labs, a forensic and analytics firm, to infrastructure firm Blockdaemon. In total, the company has 11 crypto businesses in its portfolio. A common thread is that these firms are actively developing elements of blockchain infrastructure that can be used in the trading and settling of digital assets.

 

In addition, Goldman recently launched a tokenization platform that processed a $100 million euro-bond from the European Investment Bank in conjunction with Santander and Societe Generale. The bank is also collaborating with crypto data firm Coinmetrics and index provider MSCI to create a digital-asset classification system called Datonomy.

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Shark Tank's Kevin O'Leary reveals he lost entire $15 MILLION in FTX collapse after investing his paycheck when he became failed crypto giant's spokesman: 'I fell prey to groupthink'

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11518311/Shark-Tanks-Kevin-OLeary-reveals-lost-entire-15-MILLION-FTX-collapse.html?ito=push-notification&ci=DanbXXKRy3&cri=bt-_BDRgVr&si=l0ZeeW8BFH-J&xi=05ebb8ab-baa8-4b12-9baf-4a41a45c6677&ai=11518311

 

 

[ronthecivil]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:53 PM, The Arrogant Worms said:

Goldman Sachs Is Not Crypto’s White Knight

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenehrlich/2022/12/06/goldman-sachs-is-not-cryptos-white-knight/?sh=74d227dd5300

 

Hopes were raised earlier today when a report came out from Reuters claiming that the firm is planning to spend “tens of millions of dollars to buy or invest in crypto companies” in the midst of a market reset following the FTX collapse. Interested parties are likely to be disappointed.

 

“There’s no allocation,” says a source familiar with the company. In addition, Goldman is unlikely to be pursuing wholesale acquisitions of troubled firms. “Consistent with what they have done today, it is really just thinking about minority investments.”

 

But the fact that the bank did not put together a specific pocket of funds to go crypto bargain hunting does not mean that it wants to sit on the sidelines.

 

On the contrary, the source said, Goldman is looking to be opportunistic if it comes across a firm that fits within its mission of building the underlying blockchain and digital asset infrastructure that the company hopes will form the basis of capital markets in years ahead. Areas of potential interest include intraday repo agreements and derivatives collateralization, but likely not troubled bitcoin miners, lenders or centralized exchanges.

 

“With cheap money coming to an end and valuations rebasing, they continue to seek out opportunities with the underlying technology that can positively transform the financial markets,” says the source. “Really from their perspective, nothing has changed in terms of modus operandi.”

 

In fact, the company has been an investor in the crypto industry over the years, purchasing minority holdings in firms ranging from crypto custodian Anchorage to TRM Labs, a forensic and analytics firm, to infrastructure firm Blockdaemon. In total, the company has 11 crypto businesses in its portfolio. A common thread is that these firms are actively developing elements of blockchain infrastructure that can be used in the trading and settling of digital assets.

 

In addition, Goldman recently launched a tokenization platform that processed a $100 million euro-bond from the European Investment Bank in conjunction with Santander and Societe Generale. The bank is also collaborating with crypto data firm Coinmetrics and index provider MSCI to create a digital-asset classification system called Datonomy.

 

 

 

 

And here I was sad I didn't buy into Goldmen Sachs. It seems they never seem to learn their lesson on following a "trend".

[Elias Pettersson]

Justin Bieber, Madonna, Steph Curry, Kevin Hart and Serena Williams are sued for 'insidious' NFT endorsements over Bored Ape Yacht Club that inflated its price

 

Several celebrities are named in a class-action lawsuit filed against Yugo Labs, the company behind NFT series Bored Ape Yacht Club, that alleges the firm engaged in a conspiracy with the A-listers to defraud potential investors.

The complaint was filed on Friday in Los Angeles federal district court on behalf of investors who claim it failed to disclose the alleged involvement of celebrities in promoting and selling NFTs.

Among the 37 defendants named for their alleged involvement in 'promoting and selling a suite of digital assets,' were Kevin Hart, Gwyneth Paltrow, Madonna, Justin Bieber, Serena Williams, Jimmy Fallon, Paris Hilton, Snoop Dogg, The Weeknd, Post Malone and NBA star Steph Curry. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11530019/Justin-Bieber-Madonna-Steph-Curry-Kevin-Hart-Serena-Williams-sued-NFT-endorsements.html?ito=push-notification&ci=qSRiktvPXi&cri=6QWEZXNsTk&si=l0ZeeW8BFH-J&xi=05ebb8ab-baa8-4b12-9baf-4a41a45c6677&ai=11530019

[Warhippy]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Justin Bieber, Madonna, Steph Curry, Kevin Hart and Serena Williams are sued for 'insidious' NFT endorsements over Bored Ape Yacht Club that inflated its price

 

Several celebrities are named in a class-action lawsuit filed against Yugo Labs, the company behind NFT series Bored Ape Yacht Club, that alleges the firm engaged in a conspiracy with the A-listers to defraud potential investors.

The complaint was filed on Friday in Los Angeles federal district court on behalf of investors who claim it failed to disclose the alleged involvement of celebrities in promoting and selling NFTs.

Among the 37 defendants named for their alleged involvement in 'promoting and selling a suite of digital assets,' were Kevin Hart, Gwyneth Paltrow, Madonna, Justin Bieber, Serena Williams, Jimmy Fallon, Paris Hilton, Snoop Dogg, The Weeknd, Post Malone and NBA star Steph Curry. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11530019/Justin-Bieber-Madonna-Steph-Curry-Kevin-Hart-Serena-Williams-sued-NFT-endorsements.html?ito=push-notification&ci=qSRiktvPXi&cri=6QWEZXNsTk&si=l0ZeeW8BFH-J&xi=05ebb8ab-baa8-4b12-9baf-4a41a45c6677&ai=11530019

Wait a minute.  So people can now sue others for their own bad judgement?

 

If so...man do I need a lawyer with free time

[Playoff Beered]

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried arrested in the Bahamas after U.S. files criminal charges

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-fried-arrested-in-the-bahamas-after-us-files-criminal-charges.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard&ref=upstract.com

[thedestroyerofworlds]

2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried arrested in the Bahamas after U.S. files criminal charges

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/12/ftx-founder-sam-bankman-fried-arrested-in-the-bahamas-after-us-files-criminal-charges.html?__source=iosappshare|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard&ref=upstract.com

Wonder what all those folks who were complaining that he wasn't in cuffs when this all blew up are saying now.

[Elias Pettersson]

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

[Elias Pettersson]

  He never gives up...

 

 

[nuckin_futz]

Movement of 'lost' Quadriga bitcoin highlights the positives and pitfalls of crypto

• QuadrigaCX was a crypto exchange that turned out to be a ponzi scheme

Deceased QuadrigaCX founder Gerald Cotten

 

Canadian crypto exchange QuadrigaCX collapsed after it was revealed it was a ponzi scheme and the founder died under mysterious circumstances in India.

 

Bankruptcy trustee Ernst & Young tried to sort through the mess, which is still ongoing but looked to be winding down with around $46m in recoveries compared to $215m in losses.

 

However during the process, 104 bitcoin were 'lost' just one day after the company went into creditor protection. The exchange said it inadvertently transferred 104 bitcoin into cold storage wallets where it did not have the private key. The remaining management at the firm said it was an error with a setting on the exchange mistakenly changed.

 

Yesterday, five Quadriga wallets became active again and some of the funds were transferred to a mixer.

 

The collapse and death have long been the object of conspiracy theories and this move certainly adds some weight to the evidence and highlights (at least) that founder Gerald Cotten wasn't the only bad actor involved.

 

Perhaps one day that Satoshi bitcoin will move.

[Playoff Beered]

B.C. suspends new cryptocurrency mining requests over power, environmental concerns

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/british-columbia-cryptocurrency-suspended-1.6693976