aGENT Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Not really but having Yak in their line up doesn't get them better. They need to move him to fill team needs. Yes. My point is that those team needs aren't more picks. It's current NHL players. One's with size, leadership and/or two way/defensive play. That's why I don't see them making a play for NYI's 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yes. My point is that those team needs aren't more picks. It's current NHL players. One's with size, leadership and/or two way/defensive play. That's why I don't see them making a play for NYI's 5th. Your missing the point. Theres not a lot of options the oilers can do this summer that makes the Oil a true contender next season. No matter what they do they need their D to develop. So no matter what they are going to have to go out and pick up an UFA. and still make another trade, RJ and Vbrata would be too really good options. The Oil also have some really good d prospects that are still 2-4 years out. They need these D prospects to turn out to become a contender. So pick up the prospects for their future, a number 3 overall, and a 5th overall. And pick up RJ and Vbrata to become a better team than they currently are, to make a playoff push over the next 2-4 years. Then when Drastitl, Dal Colle, and there D prospects are ready to step in a become Nhl impact players. They can take over for the vet they brought in. The first line with have playoff experience and the fans will have something to cheer for, and will a be a much stronger team. Same reason for If canucks trade Kesler, expect us to go out and sign a Vet 2nd line center. There will need to be a stop gap to keep the team competitive while we develop Horvat and Guance if they don't seem quite ready this summer. Once they look NHL ready good bye vet hello stronger younger team. Basically is wouldn't be smart for oil to go all next year, Keep developing their picks (especially their D), pick up some stop gap vets and start to build a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 They need a right-shooting forward and a shutdown LHD, just by looking at the prospect pool. Shinkaruk will be (if he recovers from his hip injury fully) a better prospect than either Nylander or Ehlers. So I guess I have to throw the question back at you. Disagree that he is a better prospect, and I disagree that Nylander & Ehlers aren't elite skill prospects, what you said in your OP really didn't resemble the case in any of the topics you addressed IMO. We haven't been trampled by So-Cal teams, they have outplayed us offensively, and Nylander is a very different player than Shinkaruk, not very comparable at all, stylewise I don't think Ehlers is really a similar player either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Your missing the point. Theres not a lot of options the oilers can do this summer that makes the Oil a true contender next season. I never said contender. They need to get out of the basement and at least have playoff hopes. Not be cup bound. They can wait a couple years for their talent to develop to become "contenders". They need to be an actual NHL club this season though, not a glorified farm team trying to fight in a higher weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Disagree that he is a better prospect, and I disagree that Nylander & Ehlers aren't elite skill prospects, what you said in your OP really didn't resemble the case in any of the topics you addressed IMO. We haven't been trampled by So-Cal teams, they have outplayed us offensively, and Nylander is a very different player than Shinkaruk, not very comparable at all, stylewise I don't think Ehlers is really a similar player either.So what if you like different guys, really? By defining elite appropiately, as in some of the best in the league, then there's no way Nylander and Ehlers are there, sorry. Shinkaruk sans hip injury is similar to this kind of upside. Same role, same position, same expectations. And we've been totally dominated by SoCal this past season. 9-1? I mean really. End of discussion here unless you dig pointless arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Canucks don't seem to care to much about that. Sure it's something to think about but not worth moving a top 5 pick. We traded a young NHL starter for a top 9 pick. Tanev is strong defensively be he's got a long way to go to become a top 2 pairing D and not worth a top 5 pick. Not going to knock tanev, he's played great. but he's hasn't really been asked to play a huge role in anchoring our D. he has at times with injuries but thats not whats been asked of him. We still got 4 big D ahead of him with that kind of pressure on their shoulders. He can go out get 6 goals and 17 points and everyone is happy with him. A young alex elder thrived in the low pressure role, same with Dion. but once they were counted on being the go to player and having to produce, they cracked and their games fell apart. Not saying that happens to Tanev just he has a ways to go to really have value in this league. For sure, and not saying Tanev alone is worth a 5th overall even in an off draft year. A package with him when it's a need of the team we're trading with is another matter though. I never said contender. They need to get out of the basement and at least have playoff hopes. Not be cup bound. They can wait a couple years for their talent to develop to become "contenders". They need to be an actual NHL club this season though, not a glorified farm team trying to fight in a higher weight class. And they have an abundance of pieces they can use as trade bait - even beyond the 3rd overall and their pick next year. It'd be a gamble, but if it's done with proper though then it could really pay off and make them a playoff team again very quickly. They started making moves last year, and the ones they did to help in goal were good, but they've got to buck up to get help now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 So what if you like different guys, really? By defining elite appropiately, as in some of the best in the league, then there's no way Nylander and Ehlers are there, sorry. Shinkaruk sans hip injury is similar to this kind of upside. Same role, same position, same expectations. And we've been totally dominated by SoCal this past season. 9-1? I mean really. End of discussion here unless you dig pointless arguments. Nylander is classified as the most talented player in the draft. He definitely has elite offensive talent, where that will translate into him being an elite NHLer, we will see, but as of now, when it pertains to having elite skill, he has it, same goes for Ehlers, though Nylander is a bit more skilled. We have been dominated by SoCal on the scoreboard, they haven't physically dominated us. We had a very nice moral victory this season where we physically dominated LA, but still lost 1-0 if my memory is correct, because we couldn't score goals. They scored 3 or more goals against us 10 times this season, we scored 3 or more goals against those teams twice this season. Also, we scored 1 goal or less against those teams 10 times, they scored 1 goals or less against us twice. They are dominating us on the scoreboard, because they are better offensive teams, its a lack of offense that is costing us these games, not that they are physically dominating & outplaying us. Heck we had more hits than San Jose this season, and we've beaten them a grand total of once in the last 2 years, including playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Disagree that he is a better prospect, and I disagree that Nylander & Ehlers aren't elite skill prospects, what you said in your OP really didn't resemble the case in any of the topics you addressed IMO. We haven't been trampled by So-Cal teams, they have outplayed us offensively, and Nylander is a very different player than Shinkaruk, not very comparable at all, stylewise I don't think Ehlers is really a similar player either. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell us this is the first time you have had this argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Are you honestly going to sit there and tell us this is the first time you have had this argument? No we've been having similar arguments all along, there is clearly a group that believes in size and a group that believes in skill, those groups have been butting heads in this thread for a long time. And it hasn't been just me & TOML. Whats the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 No we've been having similar arguments all along, there is clearly a group that believes in size and a group that believes in skill, those groups have been butting heads in this thread for a long time. And it hasn't been just me & TOML. Whats the big deal? I think you answered your own question. Unless you like to argue for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I think you answered your own question. Unless you like to argue for the sake of it. I really didn't. But whatever. Atleast what we are discussing is relevant to the thread. If you don't like reading size/skill debates, then start using the ignore button. Though its an ongoing theme, thats not limited to just me & TOML, as I said. And with there being really no new info as far as the players go now that the season is over, its not like that theme is going away anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I really didn't. But whatever. Atleast what we are discussing is relevant to the thread. If you don't like reading size/skill debates, then start using the ignore button. Though its an ongoing theme, thats not limited to just me & TOML, as I said. And with there being really no new info as far as the players go now that the season is over, its not like that theme is going away anytime soon. Yes you did. You DO still think its a big deal. If you enjoy arguing the exact same points with the exact same people over the exact same players you did 30 pages ago that is. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results. Have at it kiddo. Fight the good fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 He's probably trying to project how they actually end up as nhlers. Thinking sanheim is going to be a steal so he picks him top ten and goes told ya so. Thinks Virtanen will end up like Torres so says 2nd round for the I told ya so. I dont understand Buttons rankings but some have stepped in to claim he has a method to his madness. ISS still is crazy about Fabbri and Perlini too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I dont understand Buttons rankings but some have stepped in to claim he has a method to his madness. ISS still is crazy about Fabbri and Perlini too. I think it's pretty clear Button's rankings are how he feels players project to do in their career, not where they will be picked. Now how "correct" that is is certainly up for debate but I hope you at least grasp the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Does all this emanate from the Torts hiring? Had we hired a competent alternative, & just missed out(say picking #11-#15, this draft), we wouldn't have half the involved & lengthy debate, that we've been having. Helping to rid Lu & welcoming a new era(with a young drafted star). Torts' legacy will bookend/compare nicely with that of Keenan's(recalling how quickly Capt Kirk was gone). Brought their teams crashing down to rock bottom, from where the next mgt/coaching group could start again. Those two will prob be looked back on with the same bitterness, but maybe they were necessary in 'the process' of a rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 so what...it just shows you where everyone is at,,,,give me your list, Im sure we all have one? ISS and Button are a list of perceived talent. Our lists are on who will be drafted where, different lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kooner91 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Would love to snag Florida's pick, but can't really see how after that Toronto rumour (Phanauf, Kadri,8th ovr).Best package I could thing of is Tanev/Garrison (top 4 dman)Gaunce/Corrado (top 9/4 prospect)6th (guarantees Ehlers)36th/2015 2nd ( high 2nd in week draft, or maybe mid ranged 2nd in deep draft)For1stI still don't think that beats a top 2 dman, top 6(potential top line) center, and a pick just 2 spots later.Maybe a Kesler deal may be necessary, though I personally do not support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No we've been having similar arguments all along, there is clearly a group that believes in size and a group that believes in skill, those groups have been butting heads in this thread for a long time. And it hasn't been just me & TOML. Whats the big deal? It isn't as simple as just saying size vs skill IMHO. It's important to look at each player's total package which is why everyone has extremely different lists every year after the first grouping. The simple fact is there are good arguments why the Canucks prospect pool in its current state, after years of low picks, bad picks and traded assets, could use an injection of each. Same goes with certain types of defensemen. I believe this is why so many people want another high 1st, to check off at least two boxes, as well as making other significant trades. I think it's because with so many of our young players we don't know what we have yet as so few of them are very advanced in their development. If we had a better pool of players in the 22-24 age range, like Kassian and Tanev, there would probably be a lot less disagreement on this subject. For my part I'm not really bothered which way we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyfresh Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why do so many people think Draisaitl is likely to drop to 6? From what I've seen, there's a higher probability of him going 2nd than dropping to 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why do so many people think Draisaitl is likely to drop to 6? From what I've seen, there's a higher probability of him going 2nd than dropping to 6th. The draft order is ever evolving.....Some guys might have impressed/disappointed at the combines..lots of factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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