(Article) The Kesler Conundrum by Hockey Writers

[elvis15]

Note how A GM said something though

What kind of history do we have with GM's saying stuff then doing another?

Remember when Bryzgalov was not going to be bought out? Nash not traded? Suter not let go, Luongo not on the block because he was our #1 guy?

Mantha is a prospect. Kesler is a Michigan boy they can market the hell out of. Add in another prospect and a first plus a conditional with mantha and that is the kind of deal Detroit can swing dollar signs around for unproven prospect AHL prospect and picks that could be anywhere between 15 and 30th.

GMs say stuff all the time and there is no chance that Det brass is saying, oh hell yes Mantha is available as it only weakens their bargaining power

Sure, but I don't see it happening though. Do you think it has a realistic chance/high percentage of being an actual trade?

[Warhippy]

Sure, but I don't see it happening though. Do you think it has a realistic chance/high percentage of being an actual trade?

Mantha + 1st in 2014 1st in 2105 for Livonia Michigan born and raised Ryan Kesler?

Ya...in a heartbeat.

Like us giving up 2 picks and...Gaunce for say Parise Carter Suter Richards or Perry. All 2003 draftees under much higher caps than Kesler and signed to much longer terms.

Would you do any of those deals if our 2014 pick was 15th or higher?

[Monty]

Mantha + 1st in 2014 1st in 2105 for Livonia Michigan born and raised Ryan Kesler?

Good thing for Detroit fans that Holland isn't special needs.

[Warhippy]

Good thing for Detroit fans that Holland isn't special needs.

So, you're saying that Kesler is NOT worth that?

So we have a near worthless player on our hands Monty?

And are you saying Carter, Richards, Suter, Staal, Parise, Perry are not worth a minimum of a 1st ( or two) A prospect (or two) and a solid rookie or roster player in lieu of a 2nd pick or prospect?

This is the comparable so please. Do tell me how worthless he is.

[70seven]

Mantha + 1st in 2014 1st in 2105 for Livonia Michigan born and raised Ryan Kesler?

Ya...in a heartbeat.

Like us giving up 2 picks and...Gaunce for say Parise Carter Suter Richards or Perry. All 2003 draftees under much higher caps than Kesler and signed to much longer terms.

Would you do any of those deals if our 2014 pick was 15th or higher?

I think most fans seem to undervalue what Kesler could net in a trade and the comparisons of the above names are a perfect example of potential trade value...

Ryan Kesler is still a very much relevant and desirable piece, especially with his contract (which GMMG signed him to btw... though were not supposed to talk about any of the good things he did)...

I dont see Detroit dealing Mantha, and they have to do something with Weiss before considering Kesler imo. And TB's need for another d-man outweighs the need for Kesler, thus they wont be moving Hedman for anyone. THough they do have a plethora of young forwards and d-men that Van could use... Connolly, Namestnikov, Kucherov, Barberio, Koekkoek, Erne... Theres plenty to like about those prospects whom TB might not even have room for on the roster, and the first 3 of which whom look ready for the NHL.

I think Pitts is going to be the front runner still, but another eastern team could easily jump in. Anaheim will have to severely out bid and eastern team to score Kesler. He's clearly not a player that you want to willingly give to a division rival that you already have trouble matching up against. If an Eastern teams offer is close to Anaheims, we're doing ourselves a HUGE favor by trading the Selke candidate out of conference. If they get him, it's going to come with a significant price tag... which is why i hope he goes there, but if you thought he played with a chip on his shoulder against Canucks rivals... just wait to see him dominate us for at least the next few years.... Not something you really want to go ahead with imo..

Not so sure where he'll go, but as speculation in other markets heat up and the lack of notable UFAs available, I'm sitting at about an 85% chance of him being traded.

[Provost]

Anyone who wouldn't take that Detroit deal (except for anyone from Detroit) would be an idiot.

I doubt we get that kind of return, but it would certainly be sweet if we could!

[awalk]

Who wrote this?

Edit: nvm, link

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-kesler-conundrum-part-1/

[Warhippy]

I think most fans seem to undervalue what Kesler could net in a trade and the comparisons of the above names are a perfect example of potential trade value...

Ryan Kesler is still a very much relevant and desirable piece, especially with his contract (which GMMG signed him to btw... though were not supposed to talk about any of the good things he did)...

I dont see Detroit dealing Mantha, and they have to do something with Weiss before considering Kesler imo. And TB's need for another d-man outweighs the need for Kesler, thus they wont be moving Hedman for anyone. THough they do have a plethora of young forwards and d-men that Van could use... Connolly, Namestnikov, Kucherov, Barberio, Koekkoek, Erne... Theres plenty to like about those prospects whom TB might not even have room for on the roster, and the first 3 of which whom look ready for the NHL.

I think Pitts is going to be the front runner still, but another eastern team could easily jump in. Anaheim will have to severely out bid and eastern team to score Kesler. He's clearly not a player that you want to willingly give to a division rival that you already have trouble matching up against. If an Eastern teams offer is close to Anaheims, we're doing ourselves a HUGE favor by trading the Selke candidate out of conference. If they get him, it's going to come with a significant price tag... which is why i hope he goes there, but if you thought he played with a chip on his shoulder against Canucks rivals... just wait to see him dominate us for at least the next few years.... Not something you really want to go ahead with imo..

Not so sure where he'll go, but as speculation in other markets heat up and the lack of notable UFAs available, I'm sitting at about an 85% chance of him being traded.

In regards to this, Weiss might be the ONLY stumbling block for Det, but they can still trade him to a cap floor team bury him buy him out or play him until he bounces back because this was certainly an off year for him. Much like Briere in Montreal.

I do think that is assessed and good value for Kesler and I do think they;d be willing to part with one of their 2 top non roster prospects for him. I also think that they'd be willing to part with a couple of picks or even an additional prospect as again, having that local born name playing for the home team has so much merit in the US that it is disturbing.

I do not think that Tampa would ever be a place for Kesler, but I do think that Garrison or Edler could waive for there. Both because of their need for D as you said but also because the opportunity to still play solid top 4 or top 2 minutes, tax free sunny location without the extra pressure and for Edler a chance to be reunited with Salo.

As well Tampa does have that depth at the forward position which we need.

In all honesty I still see Kesler to Anaheim or Pitts and Edler to NYI or Tampa as the best possible scenario for the Canucks in regards to return on value.

**Edit:

You'd seriously have to have Heffy sized hate on for specific players to not think that Edler and Kesler have the kind of value they do.

[Provost]

**Edit:

You'd seriously have to have Heffy sized hate on for specific players to not think that Edler and Kesler have the kind of value they do.

It is just that one of the possible deals just stands out as ridiculously better than the others.

If you could get Mantha, Nyquist, 2014 1st, and 2015 1st for Kesler... that is ridiculous value.

[Monty]

So, you're saying that Kesler is NOT worth that?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

So we have a near worthless player on our hands Monty?

Didn't say that.

And are you saying Carter, Richards, Suter, Staal, Parise, Perry are not worth a minimum of a 1st ( or two) A prospect (or two) and a solid rookie or roster player in lieu of a 2nd pick or prospect?

This is the comparable so please. Do tell me how worthless he is.

Carter and Richards didn't have NTCs in their contracts, so they aren't comparables. Suter and Parise weren't traded at all, so I don't even know why you brought them up. And as for Staal, and I'm assuming Jordan Staal because he was the one that was traded (although seeing as though you brought up Suter and Parise, you might actually mean Marc for all I know), he also didn't have a NTC. And as far as I know, Perry hasn't been traded. So...

[elvis15]

Mantha + 1st in 2014 1st in 2105 for Livonia Michigan born and raised Ryan Kesler?

Ya...in a heartbeat.

Like us giving up 2 picks and...Gaunce for say Parise Carter Suter Richards or Perry. All 2003 draftees under much higher caps than Kesler and signed to much longer terms.

Would you do any of those deals if our 2014 pick was 15th or higher?

You should take a poll with Detroit fans to see if they'd do Mantha plus both their 1st round picks this year and next for Kesler. I don't think they want him that badly - especially while they still have Weiss and his contract burning a hole in their cap.

[Pears]

You should take a poll with Detroit fans to see if they'd do Mantha plus both their 1st round picks this year and next for Kesler. I don't think they want him that badly - especially while they still have Weiss and his contract burning a hole in their cap.

If getting that type of package for Kesler meant taking Weiss's contract back I'd do it. We could always flip him to a team needing to reach the cap floor.

[Warhippy]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Didn't say that.

Carter and Richards didn't have NTCs in their contracts, so they aren't comparables. Suter and Parise weren't traded at all, so I don't even know why you brought them up. And as for Staal, and I'm assuming Jordan Staal because he was the one that was traded (although seeing as though you brought up Suter and Parise, you might actually mean Marc for all I know), he also didn't have a NTC. And as far as I know, Perry hasn't been traded. So...

I bring them up because near everyone on this forum would pay that price and more for those players even at their ridiculous contracts. Det and Pitts are 2 teams he's apparently said he'd waive for so we go with them as a benchmark as well as Anaheim.

Kesler si worth a minimum of 2 Firsts and a solid A prospect, an A prospect a young roster player and a 1st or any combination of the three. As a minimum.

Anything else is not worth it, and these are the offers being thrown out there by all reports.

To say he is not worth it is quite honestly calling him worthless as any deal that nets the canucks less than that is literally just giving over assets for no return at all.

Trading a player of Keslers calibre is admitting the season is a rebuild and is the cornerstone or turning point for the franchise moving ahead. Anything less than percieved maximum return is...a loss

[elvis15]

If getting that type of package for Kesler meant taking Weiss's contract back I'd do it. We could always flip him to a team needing to reach the cap floor.

Didn't we say something similar about Luongo and his contract, how a cap floor team would love to take him on since he was actually still a very good goalie? So how easy was it to trade him?

On top of that, Weiss didn't play well at all for Detroit last year. He played in only 26 games and his stat line was 4 points, -4 and 4 hits. That's terrible for someone who has 4 years left at $4.9M in cap hit. Then if you factor in his salary (including bonuses) is $5M/$6.5M/$6.5M over the next 3 years, that's not a deal that I'd be taking.

[Warhippy]

It is just that one of the possible deals just stands out as ridiculously better than the others.

If you could get Mantha, Nyquist, 2014 1st, and 2015 1st for Kesler... that is ridiculous value.

There is NO way we get all that.

But a prospect like Mantha, a solid young roster player and a 1st is not asking to much. Leaving the roster player off the table and asking for an additional first is not out of the question either.

I have stated repeatedly we will never get one of Det's young roster players. more luck prying Datsyuk away from them as DeKeyser Nyquist etc are studs and the future of the team.

Again much easier to move a prospect that has done NOTHING at the league level let alone anywhere outside of junior

[Warhippy]

You should take a poll with Detroit fans to see if they'd do Mantha plus both their 1st round picks this year and next for Kesler. I don't think they want him that badly - especially while they still have Weiss and his contract burning a hole in their cap.

I would ask them that if I was Benning and walk away and happily give him to a divisional rival that would pay that.

Again. If Pitts offered up Pouliot Benntt and a 1st, Pouliot Sutter and a 1st, Pouliot and two 1sts

Anaehim offered up two 1sts and Etem/Vatanen/Theodore

Than that is what the asking price is.

Take any combination of the three of a 1st round pick, A grade prospect and solid rookie or ELC player and that is what the canucks need back and by all reports have been offered for Kesler.

Anything less, as I have stated before is a loss for the team

[aGENT]

Didn't we say something similar about Luongo and his contract, how a cap floor team would love to take him on since he was actually still a very good goalie? So how easy was it to trade him?

In fairness "we" said that prior to the league/new CBA retroactively screwing us on his contract and Lu basically demanding to only be moved to Florida (among other likely non-intentional things he did to submarine his value/move-ability).

[apollo]

I wouldn't mind getting ferraro...

I know nothing of him but maybe his dad will stop hating on us every morning on team 1040.

nyquist mantha 1st and 2nd and you got a deal though. I want me my swede

[elvis15]

I would ask them that if I was Benning and walk away and happily give him to a divisional rival that would pay that.

Again. If Pitts offered up Pouliot Benntt and a 1st, Pouliot Sutter and a 1st, Pouliot and two 1sts

Anaehim offered up two 1sts and Etem/Vatanen/Theodore

Than that is what the asking price is.

Take any combination of the three of a 1st round pick, A grade prospect and solid rookie or ELC player and that is what the canucks need back and by all reports have been offered for Kesler.

Anything less, as I have stated before is a loss for the team

But Pittsburgh didn't offer that, that's what we'd like to get. And to some extent Pouliot is redundant in their system where Mantha definitely isn't redundant in Detroit's.

I've never heard exactly what Anaheim offered, let alone that it was both their 1sts (I assume this year's?) and one of those prospects - who are all on different levels for different reasons.

If that's what the asking price is then it's clear we didn't get it. Benning can float that in the water, but I don't think Detroit bites.

[Warhippy]

But Pittsburgh didn't offer that, that's what we'd like to get. And to some extent Pouliot is redundant in their system where Mantha definitely isn't redundant in Detroit's.

I've never heard exactly what Anaheim offered, let alone that it was both their 1sts (I assume this year's?) and one of those prospects - who are all on different levels for different reasons.

If that's what the asking price is then it's clear we didn't get it. Benning can float that in the water, but I don't think Detroit bites.

To the best of my knowledge and as per all the rumours it was one of Bennett or Pouliot + Sutter + 1st. Alternative sources have it as Bennett and Pouliot + pick

Anaheim apparently offered up their 4 picks in the first 2 rounds plus one of Vatanen/Theodore/DPS/Etem.

Again just rumoured.

Det can offer all they'd like but as of next season with much hungrier and stronger teams out east they seriously run the risk of missing the playoffs for the first time since 1989/1990 if they don't make a serious move. Keslers asking price for this team HAS to be the stars and we have to settle for no less than just a shade under that as again it is the future of this franchise competitively.

If Benning was indeed part and parcel to the trades regarding Kessel and then later on Seguin than I have faith in him to get the max return on value for both Kesler and or Edler