(Article) The Kesler Conundrum by Hockey Writers

[Henrik Kesler]

I bring them up because near everyone on this forum would pay that price and more for those players even at their ridiculous contracts. Det and Pitts are 2 teams he's apparently said he'd waive for so we go with them as a benchmark as well as Anaheim.

Kesler si worth a minimum of 2 Firsts and a solid A prospect, an A prospect a young roster player and a 1st or any combination of the three. As a minimum.

Anything else is not worth it, and these are the offers being thrown out there by all reports.

To say he is not worth it is quite honestly calling him worthless as any deal that nets the canucks less than that is literally just giving over assets for no return at all.

Trading a player of Keslers calibre is admitting the season is a rebuild and is the cornerstone or turning point for the franchise moving ahead. Anything less than percieved maximum return is...a loss

I agree with you on trading Kesler. However, I think you're incredibly overvaluing him.

For perspective, Carter only got Philly Voracek and a third.

Richards got Simmonds, Schenn, and an undisclosed (at the time) pick.

Kesler is not getting a better return than what Philly got for Carter or Richards. He isn't as good as those guys were at the time of their trades.

[Canuck Surfer]

LOL at Tampa trading Hedman.

A 6'6'' 230 lb D man who just broke out for 55 points at age 23.

Seriously, you would have a better chance of getting Crosby.

[Warhippy]

I agree with you on trading Kesler. However, I think you're incredibly overvaluing him.

For perspective, Carter only got Philly Voracek and a third.

Richards got Simmonds, Schenn, and an undisclosed (at the time) pick.

Kesler is not getting a better return than what Philly got for Carter or Richards. He isn't as good as those guys were at the time of their trades.

The difference is....he's the only player like that available

[Canuck Surfer]

I agree with you on trading Kesler. However, I think you're incredibly overvaluing him.

For perspective, Carter only got Philly Voracek and a third.

Richards got Simmonds, Schenn, and an undisclosed (at the time) pick.

Kesler is not getting a better return than what Philly got for Carter or Richards. He isn't as good as those guys were at the time of their trades.

Carter got Philly a first and a 3rd. The first was an 8th overall a lottery pick with which they selected Couturier.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=566888

The deal was a dead set steal for Philly. As good as Carter was / is Voracek is now a 60 point top line sniper,and they have a young player in Couts with potential to be as good as Kesler defensively at 3C. It also gave them boat loads of cap space when they were completely panty twisted. Problem was when they got their panties off, instead of gettin some, they spent the money on Brzgalov. But that was another deal.

[shiznak]

Just wondering...why can't we get Mantha as part of a return package for Kesler? He is a prospect who has NEVER played an AHL game let alone in the big leagues.

Stop overvaluing prospects people seriously. kesler proven, Mantha prospect. he is NOT the next coming of Crosby or Messier, he is a big body with soft hands that fell almost 7 spots in a deep draft. He has questionable work ethic and is considered lazy on the play at times.

From an organization who doesn't rush their prospects, Mantha almost made onto the roster out of training camp. People saw how clutch he was for Team Canada at the world juniors, which sky rocketed his value.

There's no way Holland will mortgage his future for a guy who is inconsistent, has a long history of injuries, and has an attitude problem.

Would you trade Horvat for a player like Mike Fisher?

[Henrik Kesler]

The difference is....he's the only player like that available

True, but I still don't think it drives his value higher than either of those two trades...then again, NHL GMs do stupid things when acquring the 'marquee' player available.

Carter got Philly a first and a 3rd. The first was an 8th overall a lottery pick with which they selected Couturier.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=566888

The deal was a dead set steal for Philly. As good as Carter was / is Voracek is now a 60 point top line sniper,and they have a young player in Couts with potential to be as good as Kesler defensively at 3C. It also gave them boat loads of cap space when they were completely panty twisted. Problem was when they got their panties off, instead of gettin some, they spent the money on Brzgalov. But that was another deal.

Reading fail on my part.

And yeah, Philly punted their situation after the Carter and Richards trades by signing Bryz.

[elvis15]

To the best of my knowledge and as per all the rumours it was one of Bennett or Pouliot + Sutter + 1st. Alternative sources have it as Bennett and Pouliot + pick

Anaheim apparently offered up their 4 picks in the first 2 rounds plus one of Vatanen/Theodore/DPS/Etem.

Again just rumoured.

Det can offer all they'd like but as of next season with much hungrier and stronger teams out east they seriously run the risk of missing the playoffs for the first time since 1989/1990 if they don't make a serious move. Keslers asking price for this team HAS to be the stars and we have to settle for no less than just a shade under that as again it is the future of this franchise competitively.

If Benning was indeed part and parcel to the trades regarding Kessel and then later on Seguin than I have faith in him to get the max return on value for both Kesler and or Edler

I don't have any sources I saw with either of those as rumours. If you have them, share them.

The only ones I heard were Sutter, one of Despres or Dumoulin and Pittsburgh's 1st and 2nd round picks this year, with the other rumour being that Anaheim had all four of their 1st and 2nd rounders this year on the table at one point - nothing specific about any prospect on top of that, and that wasn't just for Kesler as they were in on Vanek and others.

Maybe Detroit caves if they don't do well, but I'll say it again: I don't think they'd move Mantha, particularly for the deal you'd proposed.

[Trebreh]

We probably could've had Johansen for Kesler like a year ago before he broke out.... but Gillis was too stupid to trade for the future.

Hedman no just no.

Mantha would've a great deal at the draft..... but again Gillis.

[stawns]

We probably could've had Johansen for Kesler like a year ago before he broke out.... but Gillis was too stupid to trade for the future.

Hedman no just no.

Mantha would've a great deal at the draft..... but again Gillis.

why would you say no to a Hedman deal? You against having a bonafide #1 dman?

[Canuck Surfer]

What does make sense is revisiting deals with Pitt. Somewhere in the depths, Tampa is still a possibility. They have, according to some, the top prospect pool in the comp, even with Palat and Johnson having come on already. If we are intent on competing our division, deals with Anaheim seem unlikely to me.

I doubt Druin is on offer. And Namestnikov and Kucherov dont solve immediate needs or resolve match up issues but offer solid trade value. I just dont get excited there.

Pitt remains most likely. When Pitt was at its best Staal was their shut down centre. A defensive center who add's a big RHS to their PP is exactly what they need. Pouliot is obviously the starting point of conversation, with Bennett and Sutter of interest. So is Maata, but he is less likely to be available, and also fits our needs less perfectly (even if better than Pouliot). Harrington, Bortuzzo and Depres are of NO interest. We have established guys who do what people hope they become. But both teams have new management, a different look is an intriguing concept. Blockbusters involving Kunitz or Letang instead of Pouliot are also within the realm of possibility?

[Pears]

why would you say no to a Hedman deal? You against having a bonafide #1 dman?

I think he means not a chance Tampa trades Hedman.

[Canuck Surfer]

From an organization who doesn't rush their prospects, Mantha almost made onto the roster out of training camp. People saw how clutch he was for Team Canada at the world juniors, which sky rocketed his value.

There's no way Holland will mortgage his future for a guy who is inconsistent, has a long history of injuries, and has an attitude problem.

Would you trade Horvat for a player like Mike Fisher?

Ask yourself if you would trade Horvat, a prospect who has not made it yet, for the American Olympic teams top line centre? Fisher does not = Kesler!

Add to it he's a home town boy, likely to sign long term (and Detroit has a track record of taking care of veterans), 210 lbs, lightning fast and a dominant match up equalizer. Add to it, could score 40 goals getting passes from Datsyuk and Z on the power play.

[shiznak]

Ask yourself if you would trade Horvat, a prospect who has not made it yet, for the American Olympic teams top line centre? Fisher does not = Kesler!

Add to it he's a home town boy, likely to sign long term (and Detroit has a track record of taking care of veterans), 210 lbs, lightning fast and a dominant match up equalizer. Add to it, could score 40 goals getting passes from Datsyuk and Z on the power play.

Funny how you say Fisher's talent does not equal to Kesler's, when Fisher has had better numbers than Kesler in the past two complete seasons, when both players had played 70 or more games.

But that wasn't the point. Warhippy said how Kesler was a proven player in the NHL, and Mantha wasn't. So, I asked him would he trade any of our top prospects, for a guy who is an above average NHLer?

[Canuck Surfer]

Context, no context.

Fisher does not make us a contender, so we don't trade our top prospect for him. And there is no reason to think Fisher could be here, and be productive 5 years from now.

Kesler does make Detroit a contender. Z, Datsyuk and Kesler 1,2,3 up the middle is the best centre core in the league. Detroit also has a history of playing Zetterburg and Datsyuk together when they need offense. No reason to think Kesler could not be a permanent fixture as their 2C. PP Smith, Kronwall, Z, Datsyuk, Kesler looks terrific as well. There is also every reason to believe he would love to play for the Wings in his home state and be a fixture there til he's 36 or 37.

If I'm Detroit I trade any prospect Vancouver wants.

[VegasCanuck]

Just wondering...why can't we get Mantha as part of a return package for Kesler? He is a prospect who has NEVER played an AHL game let alone in the big leagues.

Stop overvaluing prospects people seriously. kesler proven, Mantha prospect. he is NOT the next coming of Crosby or Messier, he is a big body with soft hands that fell almost 7 spots in a deep draft. He has questionable work ethic and is considered lazy on the play at times.

No to Hedman alone, honestly....

Johansen, I would offer Kesler and Gaunce plus a 2nd or 3rd but not Horvat...really

Pitts deal no problem

Det deal, no we won't get any of the prospects playing in their line up like Nyquist but Mantha for sure. Love that big bodied RW.

But seriously guys...Mantha is not as untouchable as you think and he is not worth kesler alone. More needs to come back if Det wants kesler than just Mantha and a 2nd.

Give your heads a shake

Exactly!!! Thank-you!

[Warhippy]

Funny how you say Fisher's talent does not equal to Kesler's, when Fisher has had better numbers than Kesler in the past two complete seasons, when both players had played 70 or more games.

But that wasn't the point. Warhippy said how Kesler was a proven player in the NHL, and Mantha wasn't. So, I asked him would he trade any of our top prospects, for a guy who is an above average NHLer?

The vast difference there is that Detroit is still a clear playoff contender in the east. Kesler alone makes them into a playoff threat.

Fisher is...Fisher. He doesn't make us better at all.

Horvat for Fisher no. But I would trade Horvat for Perry, Suter, Carter, Richards, Kopitar etc.

[86Viking]

if neal wants out of pittsburgh what would it take to get him here and on a line with the sedins?

edler/kesler as the main piece going back

[Guest Dasein]

I would do Hedman or Johansen straight up. Y'all are homers if you wouldn't.

Johansen is arguably better than Ryan Kesler already at 21.

Hedman is finally coming into his own and he's still only 23. He will be our #1 defenseman instantly.

We would be fleecing either team if it was Kesler straight up for one of these players. CBJ would never give up their #1 center for a career #2, and TBL is not going to give up a #1 defenseman for a #2 center.

[JeremyCuddles]

I wouldn't mind getting ferraro...

I know nothing of him but maybe his dad will stop hating on us every morning on team 1040.

nyquist mantha 1st and 2nd and you got a deal though. I want me my swede

That's funny cause Nyquist is worth more then Kesker straight up.

[Guest Dasein]

if neal wants out of pittsburgh what would it take to get him here and on a line with the sedins?

edler/kesler as the main piece going back

No way. Neal is SUCH a head case. Great talent but boneheaded. Takes way too many penalties and suspensions, and has a history of concussions.