snizzle_ Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Very similar demeanour as Zack. Frustrates you with how much skill they have but doesn't seem to want to bring it every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Where's the video for game 7YT, of course. For the pretty goal watchers, goal #6, although a 2-man breakaway, was real prrty. Virtanen, 0 goals so far in the series, passed up the shot to hand his teammate a gimme goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Game 7 sequence starting at 9:05: Virtanen pressuring puck carrier in his own zone, giving him fits and driving him into the boards, causing a turnover. That opposition player? Sam Reinhart. This is not an isolated incident. I think we can put this myth of him not being a good defensive player should be put to bed. He's a fantastic defensive player. You have a lower threshold for 'fantastic' than I do. He is learning the defensive side of the game, and he is improving. His speed and strength will help him to become a very good defensive player provided that he is part of a system that emphasizes his strengths. His problem is when he is on the backcheck, he has trouble identifying who to go to and how to prevent the pass, tie up the forward's stick, etc. All things that can come with time. There is reason for a lot of optimism, but to pronounce Virtanen as a fantastic defensive player is a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You have a lower threshold for 'fantastic' than I do. He is learning the defensive side of the game, and he is improving. His speed and strength will help him to become a very good defensive player provided that he is part of a system that emphasizes his strengths. His problem is when he is on the backcheck, he has trouble identifying who to go to and how to prevent the pass, tie up the forward's stick, etc. All things that can come with time. There is reason for a lot of optimism, but to pronounce Virtanen as a fantastic defensive player is a bit much. For his age? Fantastic. But the point was to put to bed the 'bad at defense' myth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 no Hitmen on Shaw TV so far, games 1 and 2 for the Kelowna/Victoria series will be shown https://twitter.com/WHLonShawTV/status/585526841429073921 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Game 7 sequence starting at 9:05: Virtanen pressuring puck carrier in his own zone, giving him fits and driving him into the boards, causing a turnover. That opposition player? Sam Reinhart. This is not an isolated incident. I think we can put this myth of him not being a good defensive player should be put to bed. He's a fantastic defensive player. Hodgson played on the PK in Brampton and was even voted in the OHL coaches poll as a quality defensive player. Clearly we know how that worked at the NHL level (talking about his defensive ability, not his overall downfall). A good defensive play, doesn't make him fantastic defensively - even for his age - but it does suggest he isn't a liability. Edited April 8, 2015 by elvis15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hodgson played on the PK in Belleville and was even voted in the OHL coaches poll as a quality defensive player. Clearly we know how that worked at the NHL level (talking about his defensive ability, not his overall downfall). A good defensive play, doesn't make him fantastic defensively - even for his age - but it does suggest he isn't a liability.This... Is correct? However, narrow in focus and besides the point, if not just being negative. And if you recall, it's TOML that is supposed to be negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Hodgson played on the PK in Belleville and was even voted in the OHL coaches poll as a quality defensive player. Clearly we know how that worked at the NHL level (talking about his defensive ability, not his overall downfall). A good defensive play, doesn't make him fantastic defensively - even for his age - but it does suggest he isn't a liability.Brampton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Very similar demeanour as Zack. Frustrates you with how much skill they have but doesn't seem to want to bring it every day. How about we wait until we actually get him under some coaching staff that specialize in development? Someone like Travis Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Brampton Sorry, yes. Got my B's confused. This... Is correct? However, narrow in focus and besides the point, if not just being negative. And if you recall, it's TOML that is supposed to be negative. I'll concede to you then on that, but I was confused with you being overly positive with the 'fantastic' comment. Edited April 8, 2015 by elvis15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 While not bashing Virtanen overall, the struggles he had in the first two games of the series were not simply a couple of isolated incidents. He had played quite poorly in the last couple weeks of the season (http://whl.ca/roster/gamebygame/id/26161/ls_season/249). Virtanen has a tendency to light it up for two weeks, fall asleep for a week, rinse and repeat. The concern, for me, is not whether Virtanen has the tools to play well in the NHL, but whether he can do so on a consistent basis. One reason to believe that he can be more consistent is that he seems to be shuffled around the lineup and thus never really establishing an 'identity' on the team. It is hard to be consistent when your role is always changing. In my viewing. The first few games he looked like he was laboring with his left leg. Definitely had a hitch in his stride. Shifts were short, looked tentative. Could be why as a right shot he wasn't attempting to step into any shots either. Just an observation. If anyone was at the games or is closer to the team they could maybe shed some light on it? Oh and I'm not making excuses for him. I just noticed a big uptick in his play as the series went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'll concede to you then on that, but I was confused with you being overly positive with the 'fantastic' comment.Sorry. I meant super duper ultra great, not fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 virt seems to have poor positioning and spatial awareness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 CALGARY vs. MEDICINE HAT Game 1 - Fri Apr 10 7:30 PM Calgary at Medicine Hat Game 2 - Sun Apr 12 4:00 PM Medicine Hat at Calgary Game 3 - Mon Apr 13 7:00 PM Medicine Hat at Calgary Game 4 - Wed Apr 15 7:00 PM * Calgary at Medicine Hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedCanuck Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 In my viewing. The first few games he looked like he was laboring with his left leg. Definitely had a hitch in his stride. Shifts were short, looked tentative. Could be why as a right shot he wasn't attempting to step into any shots either. Just an observation. If anyone was at the games or is closer to the team they could maybe shed some light on it? Oh and I'm not making excuses for him. I just noticed a big uptick in his play as the series went on. I was at the second game and made a post about that earlier. I don't know if it was his leg or what but he was defiantly labouring a bit throughout that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Sorry. I meant super duper ultra great, not fantastic. But that's even more confusing than fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Here's an interesting take on the kid. I'm not in a position to agree or disagree with it but it would explain a lot of the shortcomings he's had as a player. If it is the case I think playing in juniors next year would be the worst thing for him. It will just feed this poor mentality of his and cause even more frustration. I think more than anything the kid needs to be humbled by being mentored and controlled by veteran players who can guide him in that aspect. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=100428137&postcount=209 I actually disagree with a lot on both sides here. :laugh: First off, I am a Hitmen season ticket holder and in addition to all the home games, I watch many of the away games via streaming. I'm not saying that in the sense that I want to claim to know more about Virtanen (or any other player), but to point out my pro-Hitmen bias and simply that I have likely had the highest number of viewings of Virtanen of anyone here (except maybe FLYguy - he seems to watch every game). I've stated before that Virtanen's body language and facial expressions on the ice and bench, and particularly in warm-up, suggest to me that he's a "spoiled" hockey player - that is, he has been told he is god's gift to hockey for a long time and believes it. He reminds me a lot of Crosby at this age in this regard. I have never met Virtanen nor do I think I ever will, but watching his actions on the bench and expressions after a play in which a teammate has made a mistake, he seems to think he is better than everyone else. TOML noted that he has been "defensively responsible" in the ICE series, which is partially true. Virtanen has great wheels and covers a tonne of ice very quickly, so he's able to get back to his own zone quickly. However, he really struggles identifying what to do on the defensive side of the rush. I've seen him miss picking up his man many, many times over the coarse of the season that leads to a goal against. Example, watch Kootenay's first goal (about 40 seconds in): http://www.whl.ca/video/56302 Virtanen commits a brutal giveaway, but is part of the backcheck and in the defensive zone at the same time as the puck. He never picks up Philp though, who goes on to score. In terms of playmaking, I'd actually agree with TOML here. He's certainly picked up his playmaking ability and isn't a pure shot-first guy anymore. Craig is right in that he's not a Merkley or Barzal (and never will be), but I'd disagree that most of his assists come from shot-related events. In game 7, he made an excellent goal-line to blue-line pass, and was very unselfish on a 2-on-0 (2:40 and 5:10): http://www.whl.ca/video/56821 Regarding the penalties, I think you're both right and both wrong. Virtanen does not take many undisciplined penalties for being "stupid". He does, however, eat a tonne of penalty minutes because he hits hard, and is rarely on the losing side of any physical play. He also gained a reputation for running over goaltenders last year, so if he goes anywhere near a keeper he's going to pick up a penalty. With the shutdown role, Craig is right. At home, French never matches Virtanen against the top line (in this series, that's Reinhart). Specifically, Tambellini is the top line, Virtanen is the second, and Fazleev is the third. Like Craig said, Fazleev gets matched against the opposition's top line, although I think this may be because he's the best face-off man on the Hitmen. However, line matching doesn't always work and Virtanen isn't a blind hockey player. He knows when he's on the ice with top-level talent (like Reinhart) and can take them off their game with physical play. Finally, his "hockey IQ". This one gets tossed around everywhere and Virtanen is labelled as having low hockey IQ. I think I mostly agree with Craig in that he's about average, maybe a bit above, but he appears to have low hockey IQ because the rest of his skills are so high. He very often has "decided" on a play well before starting it and shows an inability to adapt (this is most evident when he is coming down the wing with the puck). He clearly makes a decision on whether or not to pass well in advance and if the pass option isn't there, it usually leads to a turnover. Same with a play like the wrap-around - he's decided that's what he's doing before he does it. Just out of curiousity, Craig - where are your seats? I'm low behind the opposition net so if you have a different angle you may see things differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 That's embarrassing. Quoting TOML via HF Boards. Slut. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Here's an interesting take on the kid. I'm not in a position to agree or disagree with it but it would explain a lot of the shortcomings he's had as a player. If it is the case I think playing in juniors next year would be the worst thing for him. It will just feed this poor mentality of his and cause even more frustration. I think more than anything the kid needs to be humbled by being mentored and controlled by veteran players who can guide him in that aspect. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=100428137&postcount=209 We got the guy... for 4 more years... Edited April 9, 2015 by Canucks1219 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Here's an interesting take on the kid. I'm not in a position to agree or disagree with it but it would explain a lot of the shortcomings he's had as a player. If it is the case I think playing in juniors next year would be the worst thing for him. It will just feed this poor mentality of his and cause even more frustration. I think more than anything the kid needs to be humbled by being mentored and controlled by veteran players who can guide him in that aspect. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=100428137&postcount=209 An interesting take for sure. However, I'm not sure how much stock I put into judging a player's personality based on his "facial expressions and body language" seen from a distance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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