TOMapleLaughs Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Yes, I think it would include Buffalo. However, I think his Boston record holds more weight for two reasons: 1) if drafting is in fact skill driven (as opposed to luck) one would expect a person, Benning, to get better at it as his experience increases - which certainly is not the case with Benning. 2) one would expect Bennings clout -that is his ability to actualize his draft preferences- to also increase over time and experience (Boston said they brought him in because of his scouting/player development experience). Thus we would expect Benning to have more say in who was drafted in Boston than he did in Buffalo. I'm going on a tangent here, but you see what I mean with regards to my post above? The fact that we're even discussing this like it even matters means there's something wrong with us. The Canucks man. The Canucks. Anyway, I believe the Canucks and Linden had sold Benning's drafting and scouting ability at the time of the hire. There was enough evidence to support this at the time due to his Buffalo history. His role in Boston was director of player personnel and then assistant gm, not director of amateur scouting, so we're guessing how involved he was in the drafting/scouting process there, but he still managed to help build a winner there, so that was also a part of the sell. Basically we were supposed to be happy that we got him out of Boston. I see no reason to discount his abilities entirely at this point, but there will be no 'impressing everyone' ever. Edited June 19, 2015 by TOMapleLaughs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Of course you wouldn't want him to be injured as much as Booth. That's like saying Salo is a horrible comparison to a young dman because he was injured alot. Usually people dont like the comparison because of the following -shot: agree, jake's shot is much better -injuries: agree but nothing you can do about that -speed: agree if you're talking about the Booth after the lockout. Injuries really slowed him down. Booth prior to injury was very fast and only slightly slower than Virtanen. -mean streak: agree. -physicality: Other than his first season here Booth averaged around two hits a game. Booth does hit pretty hard as well, Jake is more consistent though. Basically the differences are minor(just shot and mean streak), they still play similar. So combine pre injury Booth's offensive ability and post injury Booth's physicality and you have a solid powerforward. Wouldn't mind Jake getting around 60 pts a season while maintaining at least 2 hits a game. However, I still think Kreider is the best comparison. Do not like the Carter or Perry comparisons. Some valid points on Booth's side but it all hinges off of him not being the poster boy for the red cross Seriously though have you seen some of the guys Virt has blown up. Keep in mind 2 months ago I was not convinced Virt had this in him. A few cdc posters set me straight. I am sure you have seen the hits lately. Sure Virt could end up being injury plagued but I see a much more talented physical player with much more on ice awareness than I think Booth has ever had in his entire career. Dont get me wrong here, I dont see virt as the second coming or anything, I just see so much more than just Booths speed and shot. Edited June 20, 2015 by Mr.DirtyDangles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Even if virtanen is not a big time goal scorer, he plays nasty and mean, and can skate with power. Exactly what we need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Even if virtanen is not a big time goal scorer, he plays nasty and mean, and can skate with power. Exactly what we need It's what we need today, five years down the road? Who knows maybe we are a big tough team and just can't score goals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Some Virtanen fans won't like this.. http://canucksarmy.com/2015/6/19/benning-s-year-1-report-card-part-3-2014-draft-revisited The article was for the purpose of evaluating Benning's performance as GM. The question of the Canucks' fans was merely a point of analysis to get there. I thought the article premature, because it seems ridiculous to me to try to evaluate a draft before any of the drafted players has played a single NHL game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 The article was for the purpose of evaluating Benning's performance as GM. The question of the Canucks' fans was merely a point of analysis to get there. I thought the article premature, because it seems ridiculous to me to try to evaluate a draft before any of the drafted players has played a single NHL game. its his last for-sure time to whine about ehlers/nylander before JV lights it up next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Even if virtanen is not a big time goal scorer, he plays nasty and mean, and can skate with power. Exactly what we need Every team desperately needs a fast, big hitting forward who can pot 20-ish goals, but to be completely honest, a 6th overall pick should be able to do much more than become just a 2nd or 3rd line grinder. Watch Nylander end up on Toronto's first line scoring 30 goals and 80 points a season. That's what you expect with a top-10 pick. If Virtanen can score 30-40 goals in the NHL then he'll have lived up to his expectation. 20 goals and some physical play is just not good enough for the highest pick this team has had since the Sedins. We can get that sort of a player just about anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftynifty Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Every team desperately needs a fast, big hitting forward who can pot 20-ish goals, but to be completely honest, a 6th overall pick should be able to do much more than become just a 2nd or 3rd line grinder. Watch Nylander end up on Toronto's first line scoring 30 goals and 80 points a season. That's what you expect with a top-10 pick. If Virtanen can score 30-40 goals in the NHL then he'll have lived up to his expectation. 20 goals and some physical play is just not good enough for the highest pick this team has had since the Sedins. We can get that sort of a player just about anywhere. Why is it STILL about Nylander or Ehlers? Stop living in the past. I see everyone pointing out his stat-line and yet his critics do not back their claims with any actual insights beyond PPG. I can look up Drouin's stats at the moment and call him a bust, but that would only be one side of the story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL'er Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Some Virtanen fans won't like this.. http://canucksarmy.com/2015/6/19/benning-s-year-1-report-card-part-3-2014-draft-revisited It very much looks like McCann could be the teams future 2nd or 3rd line center, which is a win at 26th overall. A blog is a blog. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedCanuck Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Every team desperately needs a fast, big hitting forward who can pot 20-ish goals, but to be completely honest, a 6th overall pick should be able to do much more than become just a 2nd or 3rd line grinder. Watch Nylander end up on Toronto's first line scoring 30 goals and 80 points a season. That's what you expect with a top-10 pick. If Virtanen can score 30-40 goals in the NHL then he'll have lived up to his expectation. 20 goals and some physical play is just not good enough for the highest pick this team has had since the Sedins. We can get that sort of a player just about anywhere. If your expectations of Virtanen, a sixth overall pick is to score 40 goals and hit like a truck then you need to be realistic bud. If he could get 40 goals a year and play the way he does he would not just be the best player from the draft but probably the best player in the league. Which is unrealistic expectations for anyone to have on any draft pick short of Mcdavid. We all get is you wanted Nylander or Ehlers but get over it bud. Jake is ours deal with it and support him and maybe he will just surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 If your expectations of Virtanen, a sixth overall pick is to score 40 goals and hit like a truck then you need to be realistic bud. If he could get 40 goals a year and play the way he does he would not just be the best player from the draft but probably the best player in the league. Which is unrealistic expectations for anyone to have on any draft pick short of Mcdavid. We all get is you wanted Nylander or Ehlers but get over it bud. Jake is ours deal with it and support him and maybe he will just surprise you.you just dont get it do you? We will support him, we are supporting him amd he have supported him in the past. Its the lick that we are criticizing. Like canucks army said he was chosen too high. At the time of the pick there were better prospects on the board and it has shown this season. You guys all seem really sour. Im going to say that most of you know that your wrong but are too proud to admit it. When someone posts facts like how nylander has had a better season statistically in every column including playoffs against men, you all get real butthurt. But when someone blindly comes to Virtanen defense its okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Every team desperately needs a fast, big hitting forward who can pot 20-ish goals, but to be completely honest, a 6th overall pick should be able to do much more than become just a 2nd or 3rd line grinder. Watch Nylander end up on Toronto's first line scoring 30 goals and 80 points a season. That's what you expect with a top-10 pick. If Virtanen can score 30-40 goals in the NHL then he'll have lived up to his expectation. 20 goals and some physical play is just not good enough for the highest pick this team has had since the Sedins. We can get that sort of a player just about anywhere. Look at what Steven Stamkos did these playoffs, absolutely nothing. The playoffs are a different game. It comes down to who plays the heaviest and those 2 borderline girls will not hold up in 4 long playoff series. You seem to be fixated on the regular season. In today's age players like Nylander have become the complementary. You need a core that can battle for their own pucks. GMJB has a Canuck Blueprint in his mind, Big, Fast, hard hitting 2 way players that shift momentum in a playoff series. Yes, I get your point, you can pick these players up anywhere in the draft, I agree. Later on down the road you can pick up a finesse pure goal scorer via free agency or trade much easier than a PF that can score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedCanuck Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 you just dont get it do you? We will support him, we are supporting him amd he have supported him in the past. Its the lick that we are criticizing. Like canucks army said he was chosen too high. At the time of the pick there were better prospects on the board and it has shown this season. You guys all seem really sour. Im going to say that most of you know that your wrong but are too proud to admit it. When someone posts facts like how nylander has had a better season statistically in every column including playoffs against men, you all get real butthurt. But when someone blindly comes to Virtanen defense its okay. I have no doubt nylander has more skill and if both reach their potential nylander gets more points. I also will say i did want ehlers. But once he was drafted it its done. He brings more than just points everyone knows that. Was he picked to high? Maybe only time will tell. I understand everyones point but he is ours and he is a kid give it a break just wait and see. You talk about butt hurt about JV but you sound the same way about nylander. And as for me being butthurt, I am annoyed by everyone criticizing someone so much who isn't even 19. It took the Sedins till 25 to start showing why we picked them, so relax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I have no doubt nylander has more skill and if both reach their potential nylander gets more points. I also will say i did want ehlers. But once he was drafted it its done. He brings more than just points everyone knows that. Was he picked to high? Maybe only time will tell. I understand everyones point but he is ours and he is a kid give it a break just wait and see. You talk about butt hurt about JV but you sound the same way about nylander. And as for me being butthurt, I am annoyed by everyone criticizing someone so much who isn't even 19. It took the Sedins till 25 to start showing why we picked them, so relax.i apologize for saying "you" i should have defined it as the Virtanen bandwagon. Personally i don't care. Ill criticize anyone playing bad and praise anyone playing well. I try not to grow attached to specific players. Hopefully JV can have a long career with the canucks scoring goals and crushing kids. As of right now though there are a handful of players that were selected behind him (that many of us wanted) that had a better first year after draft. Let's hope that changes next year. Still looks better than MDC lol Edited June 20, 2015 by Gooseberries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedCanuck Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 i apologize for saying "you" i should have defined it as the Virtanen bandwagon. Personally i don't care. Ill criticize anyone playing bad and praise anyone playing well. I try not to grow attached to specific players. Hopefully JV can have a long career with the canucks scoring goals and crushing kids. As of right now though there are a handful of players that were selected behind him (that many of us wanted) that had a better first year after draft. Let's hope that changes next year. Still looks better than MDC lol Ya i know its tough either way. I agree MDC is still not someone i would want either lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 you just dont get it do you? We will support him, we are supporting him amd he have supported him in the past. Its the lick that we are criticizing. Like canucks army said he was chosen too high. At the time of the pick there were better prospects on the board and it has shown this season. You guys all seem really sour. Im going to say that most of you know that your wrong but are too proud to admit it. When someone posts facts like how nylander has had a better season statistically in every column including playoffs against men, you all get real butthurt. But when someone blindly comes to Virtanen defense its okay. I agree with this. A lot of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias going on here. The odd thing is if you look over in the McCann thread most people are excited and applauding his season based on statistical output but when it comes to Virtanen vs Ehlers/Nylander it is all about hitting, physicality, speed, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I agree with this. A lot of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias going on here. The odd thing is if you look over in the McCann thread most people are excited and applauding his season based on statistical output but when it comes to Virtanen vs Ehlers/Nylander it is all about hitting, physicality, speed, etc.oh for sure. Like you said after one season many people pave McCann pegged as our number one center. But in the case of jake vs nylander its too ealry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I don't think Jake will ever be the goal scorer that Nylander/Ehlers will likely be. He's not that kind of player. It's like comparing Nazzy and Burt. Not that I think these players will be like...blah blah blah. I can see Jake being more like a Shane Doan kind of player. He'll probably get +20g a year, but his speed and physicality will be of more importance to the team. It's too early to assess Jake's leadership skills or his 2-way game (which are Doan's greatest strengths). If he ends up more like Torres I would be disappointed, but still think there's a need for that kind of player. Luckily, there's no indication that Jake's hits are dirty or late. He seems to have very good timing. Shinks and Baer are the prospects that (hopefully) will score the big goals. Jake will shake up the opponent's top players and mess up their game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnipeshow91 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ceiling- 35goals 35 assists Worst case scenario- 20 goals 15 assists Virtanen should be traded to kelowna. He's just simply not producing under Hitmens coach. I expect him to go 1.5 PPG. And Happy birthday MDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ceiling- 35goals 35 assists Worst case scenario- 20 goals 15 assists Virtanen should be traded to kelowna. He's just simply not producing under Hitmens coach. I expect him to go 1.5 PPG. And Happy birthday MDC You act like 20 goals is a cakewalk. We had 100 point season and only had one player a over 20 goals. His floor is 15 goal energy player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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