FlyLow_ Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I don't think Jake will ever be the goal scorer that Nylander/Ehlers will likely be. He's not that kind of player. It's like comparing Nazzy and Burt. Not that I think these players will be like...blah blah blah. I can see Jake being more like a Shane Doan kind of player. He'll probably get +20g a year, but his speed and physicality will be of more importance to the team. It's too early to assess Jake's leadership skills or his 2-way game (which are Doan's greatest strengths). If he ends up more like Torres I would be disappointed, but still think there's a need for that kind of player. Luckily, there's no indication that Jake's hits are dirty or late. He seems to have very good timing. Shinks and Baer are the prospects that (hopefully) will score the big goals. Jake will shake up the opponent's top players and mess up their game. That's cool and all, but you don't have to use a number 6 pick in a very good draft to get a shane doan. That's the point a lot of people are trying to make, but morons just don't get it. We still at this point do not have a single first line prospect. That's a fact ladies & gentleman, so meat and potatoes can pretty much kiss my arse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) That's cool and all, but you don't have to use a number 6 pick in a very good draft to get a shane doan. That's the point a lot of people are trying to make, but morons just don't get it. If I'm not mistaken 2014 was considered a weaker draft, but I digress. Here are Doan's numbers through the prime of his career: GP G A P PIM -- -- -- 2001-02 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 81 20 29 49 61 11 5 2 2 4 6 2002-03 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 21 37 58 86 3 -- -- -- -- -- 2003-04 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 79 27 41 68 47 -11 -- -- -- -- -- 2005-06 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 30 36 66 123 -9 -- -- -- -- -- 2006-07 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 73 27 28 55 73 -14 -- -- -- -- -- 2007-08 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 80 28 50 78 59 4 -- -- -- -- -- 2008-09 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 31 42 73 Some pretty dam good numbers if you ask me. Now here's the top 10 of his draft year (and I've included the 11th pick, Iginla, as well so nobody accuses me of a self-serving bias). 1 1 Ottawa Bryan Berard D Detroit Junior Red Wings [OHL] 619 76 247 323 500 2007-08 1 2 NY Islanders Wade Redden D Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 1023 109 348 457 665 2012-13 1 3 Los Angeles Aki-Petteri Berg D TPS Jrs. (Finland) 606 15 70 85 374 2005-06 1 4 Anaheim Chad Kilger C Kingston Frontenacs [OHL] 714 107 111 218 363 2007-08 1 5 Tampa Bay Daymond Langkow C Tri-City Americans [WHL] 1090 270 402 672 547 2011-12 1 6 Edmonton Steve Kelly L Prince Albert Raiders [WHL] 149 9 12 21 83 2007-08 1 7 Winnipeg Shane Doan R Kamloops Blazers [WHL] 1394 368 530 898 1207 2014-15 1 8 Montreal Terry Ryan L Tri-City Americans [WHL] 8 0 0 0 36 1998-99 1 9 Boston Kyle McLaren D Tacoma Rockets [WHL] 719 46 161 207 671 2007-08 1 10 Florida Radek Dvorak R Ceske Budejovice HC [Czech] 1260 227 363 590 449 2013-14 1 11 Dallas Jarome Iginla R Kamloops Blazers [WHL] 1392 589 637 1226 929 2014-15 Note that Doan was taken 7th overall, almost the same spot as Virtanen. Looking at his numbers compared to the other 1st rounders of his draft class I'll take that and run. Through the prime of his career those were definitely numbers of a 1st line-caliber player and definitely not a bad pick at 7th. If Jake brings the other parts of Doan's game we should be thrilled to have him at 7th. If that's the case, my opinion won't change unless Nylander and Ehlers are competing for Art Ross trophies. Edited June 20, 2015 by Wild Sean Monahan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Karlsson Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 He posted a pic of his new car on insta and some of the comments were like " That's great but how bout you start scoring some goals" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) If we're still stat-watching at this point, even though it is past due, Nylander didn't score any goals in the AHL playoffs either, but his team got bounced by the one that Virtanen trucked all series long. I thought Nylander was an offensive star though? No? He better be, because he's not bringing anything else to the table. Besides a nice flow. As for Ehlers, he'll need to cut down on the embarrassing diving before he starts earning pro-level respect. Edited June 20, 2015 by BanTSN 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) If we're still stat-watching at this point, even though it is past due, Nylander didn't score any goals in the AHL playoffs either, but his team got bounced by the one that Virtanen trucked all series long. I thought Nylander was an offensive star though? No? He better be, because he's not bringing anything else to the table. Besides a nice flow. As for Ehlers, he'll need to cut down on the embarrassing diving before he starts earning pro-leAnd wvel respect. So by that logic, what does that say about Adrian Kempe and Jake Virtanen? Edited June 20, 2015 by Spotted Zebra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Kempe is a decent prospect. More of a battler than Nylander. But not as skilled. When I hear of these better prospects available at 6th though, based on stats only, I'm just assuming everyone means Pastrnak? I also like what Sonny Milano brings to the table. And Larkins. None of these guys are as complete a player as Virtanen, but they have skill. I wish Ehlers and Nylander well on their NHL teams though. I seriously hope that they become the best players on their teams for the next 20 years. Dead serious. Edited June 20, 2015 by BanTSN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I wouldn't be worried about Nylander. He had arguably one of the best post-draft year out of everyone out of the 2014 draft besides obviously Ekblad and maybe a few certain others. Hard to argue otherwise when he puts up nearly a ppg in both the SHL and AHL. Still was and is a risky pick but still has one of the highest ceiling in that draft. Hopefully he reaches that potential as I think he would be a fun player to watch. If Ehlers pans out he'd be a real good fit with the Jets. With all that size up front you'd think he would have the open ice to be a dangerous scoring threat. Still happy with the Virtanen pick. We do lack a player who's purely offensive minded at RW for our pool but we also did lack someone with Virtanen's tool-set more so at that time. The complete package of size, speed and skill should not be passed up. Alas we might not be able to draft another player like Jake unless we are drafting in the top 10 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Oh I wouldn't worry about him either. I mean look what they gave Phaneuf and Kessel for contracts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) If I'm not mistaken 2014 was considered a weaker draft, but I digress. Here are Doan's numbers through the prime of his career: GP G A P PIM -- -- -- 2001-02 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 81 20 29 49 61 11 5 2 2 4 6 2002-03 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 21 37 58 86 3 -- -- -- -- -- 2003-04 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 79 27 41 68 47 -11 -- -- -- -- -- 2005-06 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 30 36 66 123 -9 -- -- -- -- -- 2006-07 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 73 27 28 55 73 -14 -- -- -- -- -- 2007-08 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 80 28 50 78 59 4 -- -- -- -- -- 2008-09 Phoenix Coyotes NHL 82 31 42 73 Some pretty dam good numbers if you ask me. Now here's the top 10 of his draft year (and I've included the 11th pick, Iginla, as well so nobody accuses me of a self-serving bias). 1 1 Ottawa Bryan Berard D Detroit Junior Red Wings [OHL] 619 76 247 323 500 2007-08 1 2 NY Islanders Wade Redden D Brandon Wheat Kings [WHL] 1023 109 348 457 665 2012-13 1 3 Los Angeles Aki-Petteri Berg D TPS Jrs. (Finland) 606 15 70 85 374 2005-06 1 4 Anaheim Chad Kilger C Kingston Frontenacs [OHL] 714 107 111 218 363 2007-08 1 5 Tampa Bay Daymond Langkow C Tri-City Americans [WHL] 1090 270 402 672 547 2011-12 1 6 Edmonton Steve Kelly L Prince Albert Raiders [WHL] 149 9 12 21 83 2007-08 1 7 Winnipeg Shane Doan R Kamloops Blazers [WHL] 1394 368 530 898 1207 2014-15 1 8 Montreal Terry Ryan L Tri-City Americans [WHL] 8 0 0 0 36 1998-99 1 9 Boston Kyle McLaren D Tacoma Rockets [WHL] 719 46 161 207 671 2007-08 1 10 Florida Radek Dvorak R Ceske Budejovice HC [Czech] 1260 227 363 590 449 2013-14 1 11 Dallas Jarome Iginla R Kamloops Blazers [WHL] 1392 589 637 1226 929 2014-15 Note that Doan was taken 7th overall, almost the same spot as Virtanen. Looking at his numbers compared to the other 1st rounders of his draft class I'll take that and run. Through the prime of his career those were definitely numbers of a 1st line-caliber player and definitely not a bad pick at 7th. If Jake brings the other parts of Doan's game we should be thrilled to have him at 7th. If that's the case, my opinion won't change unless Nylander and Ehlers are competing for Art Ross trophies. You are mistaken, 2014 was a very good draft year. Well, unless dozens and dozens of players projected to be very good are busts and very reputable scouts are wrong, which is unlikely. The draft you just posted is the definition of a weak draft so I don't get what you are trying to say. There were top 6 players available in this draft, elite skill. You know, our biggest need since drafting the Sedins. There was also Haydn Fleury, Honka, and Sanheim who would immediately be by far our best defensive prospects. These are huge needs, meat and potatoes on wing was not. Don't get me wrong, I like Jake and maybe he will be a top line player. Even if he's not it will be fun to watch him thunderdome people, but from an asset management perspective it's not very smart to take a maybe at #6 in a very deep draft. I'm also not convinced that Virtanen will be better than Alex Tuch, who is the real deal and was available at #18. Edited June 21, 2015 by FlyLow_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Oh I wouldn't worry about him either. I mean look what they gave Phaneuf and Kessel for contracts... I wonder what happened to the GM that signed those deals. The Leafs are in better hands now then they were a year ago today. Edited June 21, 2015 by Junkyard Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnipeshow91 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm also not convinced that Virtanen will be better than Alex Tuch, who is the real deal and was available at #18. BAHAHAHA wow lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 From what I remember there were analysts saying 2014 was a weak year, not to mention countless cdc'ers complaining we "tanked" in the wrong year. The point was, however, that if Virtanen reached a Shane Doan level it would be a great pick. The numbers, packaged together with the other things Doan brings/brought to the table, should speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I wonder what happened to the GM that signed those deals. The Leafs are in better hands now then they were a year ago today. Good start. They paid Babcock enough to buy a small country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftynifty Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Drouin is -6, 0 0 in 6 playoff games. Bust already right? No future at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Look at what Steven Stamkos did these playoffs, absolutely nothing. The playoffs are a different game. It comes down to who plays the heaviest and those 2 borderline girls will not hold up in 4 long playoff series. You seem to be fixated on the regular season. In today's age players like Nylander have become the complementary. You need a core that can battle for their own pucks. GMJB has a Canuck Blueprint in his mind, Big, Fast, hard hitting 2 way players that shift momentum in a playoff series. Yes, I get your point, you can pick these players up anywhere in the draft, I agree. Later on down the road you can pick up a finesse pure goal scorer via free agency or trade much easier than a PF that can score. Yeah I'm not sure why people are upset with jake. He focused mainly on improving aspects of his game that need to be tinkered to compete at the nhl level. His offense will return once he becomes a more complete player and knows when to make plays. He did pretty good for limited minutes, recovering from shoulder surgery, and honing in his defensive skills. If u ask me I think he made a statement this year. He was labelled as having low hockey iq because of his lack of assists. Look at him this year. He's going to be a scary player if he's developed correctly. And for those of you who say ehlers this nylander thst you need to face reality. I was excited about all 3 but we got jake and I am super pumped. Give the kid a chance . He's going to be a difference maker for us in years to come. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 you just dont get it do you? We will support him, we are supporting him amd he have supported him in the past. Its the lick that we are criticizing. Like canucks army said he was chosen too high. At the time of the pick there were better prospects on the board and it has shown this season. And their opinion means nothing more than anyone's here. CanucksArmy are simply a little cult of stat-geeks, who believe hockey is about crunching numbers and making graphs. Now they've got their latest "cohort model" that gives them even more to play with on their iPads. Maybe if they actually went out and watched games and players their analysis would have some real meaning, not chirping like a bunch of know-it-all accountants. Rare to ever find anything on that site of relevancy or depth of meaning. This is the same gang who just last year dourly came out with their "numbers" declaring that Horval would never be an impact player, and would top out as a third-liner. "better prospects on the board" -- yeah we get it, Ehlers and Nylander. For all your simpering, Jake's shown he can play the pro game in the playoffs no less, yet Ehlers is licking the ice while playing against boys. Can't wait until they all get to the NHL and then maybe just maybe you guys will quit your incessant butt-hurt whining. Maybe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 true jake has all the tools i see him being our perry but hitting more hopefully he scores a bunch but this kid will be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiftynifty Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 And their opinion means nothing more than anyone's here. CanucksArmy are simply a little cult of stat-geeks, who believe hockey is about crunching numbers and making graphs. Now they've got their latest "cohort model" that gives them even more to play with on their iPads. Maybe if they actually went out and watched games and players their analysis would have some real meaning, not chirping like a bunch of know-it-all accountants. Rare to ever find anything on that site of relevancy or depth of meaning. This is the same gang who just last year dourly came out with their "numbers" declaring that Horval would never be an impact player, and would top out as a third-liner. "better prospects on the board" -- yeah we get it, Ehlers and Nylander. For all your simpering, Jake's shown he can play the pro game in the playoffs no less, yet Ehlers is licking the ice while playing against boys. Can't wait until they all get to the NHL and then maybe just maybe you guys will quit your incessant butt-hurt whining. Maybe. I agree. So many Jake haters say his supporters are blindly defending him, but I don't believe that is true. His highlights from his draft year looks very appealing (I dare say it was impressive even to Ehlers/Nylander lovers). It is true this year is "disappointing" stat-wise, but can we not give the kid a chance before labelling him a bottom-6 grinder? Drouin was the Calder favourite going into this season, and yet he was benched for the playoffs because his game is not complete. He destroyed the Q offensively and yet his regular season production was similar to Horvat's while playing similar minutes (Drouin scored 3 of his 4 goals on the PP). Give some time before writing these kids off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynysterGates Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Should've drafted kopitarz?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ... "better prospects on the board" -- yeah we get it, Ehlers and Nylander. For all your simpering, Jake's shown he can play the pro game in the playoffs no less, yet Ehlers is licking the ice while playing against boys. Can't wait until they all get to the NHL and then maybe just maybe you guys will quit your incessant butt-hurt whining. Maybe. Licking the ice? I don't even... Apparently there's plenty of butt-hurt whining going around from both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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