Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[asian player]

I don't think it's about the numbers, but about his progression since being drafted. He's a returning 19 year old and he's playing quite poorly. If he played like the way Puljujarvi did last year, we'd be absolutely thrilled... who cares about the numbers. He's just making too many amateur mistakes. His shot looks worse than it was when we drafted him, he isn't skating as hard, and he hasn't been generating enough chances against players in his age group. Certainly, he has time to turn things around, but until we actually start seeing changes in his game, it's fair to criticize him. As a powerforward, it certainly will take time to bring it all together but I just don't like how so many people completely disregard how he has played in the past year and make excuses. We have the right to criticize his development. When he does well, we will praise him. When he has bumps in his development, we can criticize him. There are just so many people here closing their eyes, waiting for him to succeed, so they can say, "ha ha ha where are the haters now." Criticizing faults in his game is not being a "hater". I just want to see more from him in this tournament. I'm not asking for him to magically download Crosby's brain into his head and cut off Patrick Kane's hands to use, but it would be nice to see him use what he has. Let's see him skate a little harder, work a little harder, create more chances off the rush, and try to rally this team when it's down. 

[C.Schneider]

3 minutes ago, CanucksFanTillDeath1995 said:

How many excuses are made up for this guy?

He has a bad season in the WHL? "Well, he is not being used properly by the Hitmen coach"
He has a bad run with Utica "He needs time to adjust to the AHL"

He has a bad start to his NHL career "Well he is not put in a position to succeed and he needs time to adjust"

He has a bad WJC "Well who cares about WJC performance? All that matters is that he is gonna turn it around, I know it! He is a local kid and skates fast (not anymore) and hits! (not anymore)"

What a joke.

Not going to try and justify all that.  

However I will say this.  What Virtanen lacks compared to guys like Larkin, Ehlers, McCann, etc... is IQ.  He doesn't have the ability to think and process the play as well as his aforementioned peers.  Virtanen is a player that will never be that, so he has to rely heavily on proper coaching.  He needs to be defined an exact role on the team, and he needs to follow exactly that until he is fully accustomed to his role in the NHL.

For me, his role should be a hard-nosed body banger who fights hard on the board and also loves to crash the net.  He needs to simplify his game and just do this.  He is physically gifted and has a pretty decent hand.  He shouldn't have a hard time finding success in the NHL if he just becomes that, nothing more.

It is the hometown boy tag followed by unreasonable prime Bertuzzi-like powerforward expectation that is killing Virtanen.  The more he tries to do, the less he outputs.  This guy needs few years of really good guidance and coaching. 

[Odd.]

1 hour ago, captaincowbasher said:

In my opinion Virtanen is a bust, he's not quick/agile enough and lack's instinct- he's constantly making big loops and turning away from the play which makes him almost alweays the third guy in when in fact with his size he should be first or second. He has weak handles and a slow release. Benning had at least 20 other better picks he could have made, At least he stole McCann though. 

 

Not quick? Not agile enough? This guy was drafted BECAUSE OF HIS SPEED/MOBILITY/PHYSICALITY/GOALSCORING. To say he's not quick enough is an understatement. But to call a guy a bust after 4 meaningless games in his career? Cody Hodgson ripped it up, 16 points in 6 games? Now? He's on the Predators 4th line i believe not being able to contribute. 

Nobody is playing great on Canada. Point has been invisible. So as Perlini, Quenneville, Crouse here and there, Marner until he scored, Strome who kept being a puck hog, Fluery, Hickey, many more. At least Virtanen was visible. If he wasn't scoring, he was hitting, moving his legs and creating turnovers, and bringing physicality. 

I don't think you watched Virtanen or any of the WJC games. Wasn't Virtanen the fastest skater forward AND backwards at his draft year? It's gone to a point where people are now finding every kinds of excuse to bash Virt. 

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by Odd.

[Canucks Curse]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

Someone needs to relax.

He doesn't need excuses you're right. He'll become the player he becomes regardless of you making predictions or not.

All we can do as fans is hope for the best and look for positives. Go ahead and b!tch all you want though, it won't change anything.

I agree. you can't please everyone.

If we had nylander - everyone would be losing it on how "soft" he is because he keeps getting injured. plus if we had nylander, people would say that our prospect pool is too "soft" with shinker, beartschi and nylander. I like what virtanen brings, but he has issues a lot of young players have - consistency, timing, etc.. I am happy we drafted him. What we really need is to commit to an actual rebuild - i am not sayng trade everyone - I would keep sedins and sutter, dorsette, hamhuis, prust. But I would trade vrabata, edler, and burrows and waive higgins.

[CANUCK-EXPRESS]

Everyone knows Jake's IQ is low, its been noted since he was in junior, he also had a rating of 3/5 IQ when he was drafted, why is everything about his IQ? That's not the player he is. He is a straight line player, who shoot the puck and hit everything. That's what everyone should focus on and not his IQ. You can't teach IQ, you either have it or you don't.

Edited December 31, 2015 by CANUCK-EXPRESS

[C.Schneider]

2 minutes ago, asian player said:

I don't think it's about the numbers, but about his progression since being drafted. He's a returning 19 year old and he's playing quite poorly. If he played like the way Puljujarvi did last year, we'd be absolutely thrilled... who cares about the numbers. He's just making too many amateur mistakes. His shot looks worse than it was when we drafted him, he isn't skating as hard, and he hasn't been generating enough chances against players in his age group. Certainly, he has time to turn things around, but until we actually start seeing changes in his game, it's fair to criticize him. As a powerforward, it certainly will take time to bring it all together but I just don't like how so many people completely disregard how he has played in the past year and make excuses. We have the right to criticize his development. When he does well, we will praise him. When he has bumps in his development, we can criticize him. There are just so many people here closing their eyes, waiting for him to succeed, so they can say, "ha ha ha where are the haters now." Criticizing faults in his game is not being a "hater". I just want to see more from him in this tournament. I'm not asking for him to magically download Crosby's brain into his head and cut off Patrick Kane's hands to use, but it would be nice to see him use what he has. Let's see him skate a little harder, work a little harder, create more chances off the rush, and try to rally this team when it's down. 

It isn't so much that his physical assets have diminished, but more his mental confusion.  

He is trying to become a player he is not, over-thinking the game and trying to make plays above his level.  Virtanen is a player that performs well when he keeps things simple, and just plays hard.  Right now, he is neither, which is why it looks like his development has been put on a halt.

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

I agree. you can't please everyone.

If we had nylander - everyone would be losing it on how "soft" he is because he keeps getting injured. plus if we had nylander, people would say that our prospect pool is too "soft" with shinker, beartschi and nylander. I like what virtanen brings, but he has issues a lot of young players have - consistency, timing, etc.. I am happy we drafted him. What we really need is to commit to an actual rebuild - i am not sayng trade everyone - I would keep sedins and sutter, dorsette, hamhuis, prust. But I would trade vrabata, edler, and burrows and waive higgins.

That and the fact that drafting Nylander would be committing to a certain type of team again. One that we tried building only to have it get beaten by bigger and nastier teams.

It's obvious the type of team Benning wants. He will choose players who play hard and physical over skilled guys every time. Alot of things still need to go right though.

[AlphaHoneyBadger]

21 minutes ago, CanucksFanTillDeath1995 said:

How many excuses are made up for this guy?

He has a bad season in the WHL? "Well, he is not being used properly by the Hitmen coach"
He has a bad run with Utica "He needs time to adjust to the AHL"

He has a bad start to his NHL career "Well he is not put in a position to succeed and he needs time to adjust"

He has a bad WJC "Well who cares about WJC performance? All that matters is that he is gonna turn it around, I know it! He is a local kid and skates fast (not anymore) and hits! (not anymore)"

What a joke.

When did he have a bad WHL season?  His last season he was injured for a third of it and put up a point a game. People expect him to be McDavid. There was only one of those. He is a 19 YEAR OLD. Bury your heads for 5 years and then talk. He has a long ways to go BUT a long time to try to get there. DEAL WITH IT, WHINY BRATS.

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said:

Everyone knows Jake's IQ is low, its been noted since he was in junior, he also had a rating of 3/5 IQ when he was drafted, why is everything about his IQ? That's not the player he is. He is a straight line player, who shoot the puck and hit everything. That's what everyone should focus on and not his IQ. You can't teach IQ, you either have it or you don't.

Yep. The exact type of play that exists in the playoffs.

That's what Benning is trying to build. Guys that aren't gonna put up huge points, but play hard, fast, and simple hockey.

It's what has made the Kings and Bruins successful.

[Rocksterh8]

He needs to go back to juniors for the rest of the year and develop, playing him in and out of the Canucks lineup isn't helping him at the point.

[funkyfresh]

15 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

That and the fact that drafting Nylander would be committing to a certain type of team again. One that we tried building only to have it get beaten by bigger and nastier teams.

It's obvious the type of team Benning wants. He will choose players who play hard and physical over skilled guys every time. Alot of things still need to go right though.

If Virtanen played hard, we wouldn't have so many people disappointed in his game so far.

[CanucksFanTillDeath1995]

14 minutes ago, AlphaHoneyBadger said:

When did he have a bad WHL season?  His last season he was injured for a third of it and put up a point a game. People expect him to be McDavid. There was only one of those. He is a 19 YEAR OLD. Bury your heads for 5 years and then talk. He has a long ways to go BUT a long time to try to get there. DEAL WITH IT, WHINY BRATS.

So we are not allowed to criticize our draft choices? Get a grip.

And does Chicago have a Virtanen? I don't think so. They have a Kane though, who is like Nylander/Ehlers and a Toews who is like Larkin.

[DeNiro]

Just now, funkyfresh said:

If Virtanen played hard, we wouldn't have so many people disappointed in his game so far.

I'm not gonna defend his play this season. Clearly it hasn't been good enough.

But I've seen the type of player he is over the last two years to know that he plays hard and physical. That's always been his game. Right now we're seeing a player that's lacking confidence. It happens.

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, CanucksFanTillDeath1995 said:

So we are not allowed to criticize our draft choices? Get a grip.

And does Chicago have a Virtanen? I don't think so. They have a Kane though, who is like Nylander/Ehlers and a Toews who is like Larkin.

Nylander is like Kane how Kassian is like Bertuzzi.

Kane is a generational player. If our goal is to draft another Kane in the draft, we're gonna be waiting a long time.

[MJDDawg]

I really like Jake, and I realize that most of the Canadian team was invisible today, but he doesn't even seem to be able to do the basics correctly right now. Two plays stand out for me today outside of that nice back check and a shift near the end of the first.

1. Julien Gauthier was screening the Swedish goalie on Marner's goal in the third. It was a perfect screen and the goalie never saw the shot. Jake should take the video of how Gauthier was positioned on the screen and be forced to watch it over and over because Jake doesn't seem to know how to screen a goalie. Every single time he's trying to screen, he's actually standing to the side of the goalie and allowing him to see the shots. 
2. With about four minutes left in the third, Jake takes a nice pass on the wide right side of the Swedish zone and had an opportunity to take it directly to the net. Instead he took the lazy and easy route and did that wide looping thing he likes to do and skates behind the net out wide on the left side now then taking a shot, which of course missed. For a guy of his size, the better play was just taking it straight to the goal off the right wing rush. At worst, trying to jam it in the crease could have at least created a loose puck that another player might have been able to jump on.

I know I know, it's true careers aren't made in the WJC's, but I was at least hoping to see signs of the player we think he can be.

Other than a few hits, he's had no impact in this tourney at all. If JB brings him back to Vancouver instead of sending him to Calgary, is it even possible that he comes back with even less confidence than when he left? Yikes.

Edited December 31, 2015 by MJDDawg

[CanucksFanTillDeath1995]

13 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Nylander is like Kane how Kassian is like Bertuzzi.

Kane is a generational player. If our goal is to draft another Kane in the draft, we're gonna be waiting a long time.

In terms of play style. 

Chicago does not have a player that plays a low IQ, north south game like Virtanen. Look at all of Chicago's key players.
Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hossa

None play like Virtanen. They do however play like Nylander.  Who is to say you need a Virtanen to win in the playoffs? From what I have seen Kane/Toews/Doughty win cups. Virtanen types do not.

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by CanucksFanTillDeath1995

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, CanucksFanTillDeath1995 said:

In terms of play style. 

Chicago does not have a player that plays a low IQ, north south game like Virtanen. Look at all of Chicago's key players.
Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Hossa

None play like Virtanen. They do however play like Nylander. 

 

Look at LA and Boston though. They have lots of those players.

That's the type of team Benning is trying to build.

[MJDDawg]

20 minutes ago, funkyfresh said:

If Virtanen played hard, we wouldn't have so many people disappointed in his game so far.

That's been the most concerning part for me. If he was busting his arse every shift, I wouldn't care less about his scoring or lack thereof. 

[nowhereman]

19 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Nylander is like Kane how Kassian is like Bertuzzi.

Kane is a generational player. If our goal is to draft another Kane in the draft, we're gonna be waiting a long time.

Not to derail things, as I don't disagree with your point, but Kane is not even close to generational. You can't have a handful of generational players every generation. Crosby and OV were generational. Kane is in the tier of really damn good.

[DeNiro]

Just now, nowhereman said:

Not to derail things, as I don't disagree with your point, but Kane is not even close to generational. You can't have a handful of generational players every generation. Crosby and OV were generational. Kane is in the tier of really damn good.

I bet Kane will finish his career with more cups and individual awards than Crosby. He's just peaking this year. He could easily walk away with the Art Ross, Hart, and Lindsay.

Minus the hype and Kane>>Crosby and Ovechkin.