Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[73 Percent]

1 minute ago, Lancaster said:

Usually by age 24.  

If they don't become impact players by then, they're usually just become grinders like Steve Bernier, Raffi Torres, etc.

At best.

[wellnon]

3 hours ago, Gooseberries said:

The answer is pretty obvious after reading that post. I tend to totally disregard anyone who begins to analyze Jake's play of the last month based on point totals. All reports out of utica say that jake has been playing great and that he's been snake bitten.

Ive watched 3 games so far online.  I try to watch 4 or 5 a season and stay up to date on what happened game to game.  Yes he has improved a lot throughout the season and he has been somewhat snake bitten but that can only be an excuse for so long.  Eventually he has to start producing.  He's a 20 year old kid and has plenty of time to improve.  My concern is when comparing him to similar players drafted in the first round that are having success in the league he really does not stack up well.  Stats are not everything but they are something and jakes stats dont give me a lot of confidence at this point and time.    

[guntrix]

39 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Really don't know why people can't be patient with this kid. Power Forwards usually take longer to develop and mature into their role.

 

Bertuzzi didn't really hit his stride in the league until he was 25/26.

 

This kid has all the tools, they are teaching him to have a much rounder game for the team. Show him patience and it will pay off.

 

Man the Bertuzzi comparison is the gift that keeps on giving. Repeatedly disproven yet repeatedly brought up. I guess people only see what they want to see. 

[WeneedLumme]

1 minute ago, Lancaster said:

Usually by age 24.  

If they don't become impact players by then, they're usually just become grinders like Steve Bernier, Raffi Torres, etc.

True. And if Jake is struggling when he's 24, I will have low expectations for his NHL career. But I think that Torres is his floor, and even that would be a useful asset. However, the current reports from Utica are pretty promising and he's still a long way from 24.

[guntrix]

3 hours ago, Gooseberries said:

The answer is pretty obvious after reading that post. I tend to totally disregard anyone who begins to analyze Jake's play of the last month based on point totals. All reports out of utica say that jake has been playing great and that he's been snake bitten.

I tend to totally disregard people who use reports instead of watching him play firsthand. 

 

Dude's improved no doubt but he's still far from where we want him to be. I'm guessing the reports coming out of Utica are also morale-boosters; no sense in further knocking the kid's confidence. 

[VegasCanuck]

12 minutes ago, guntrix said:

Man the Bertuzzi comparison is the gift that keeps on giving. Repeatedly disproven yet repeatedly brought up. I guess people only see what they want to see. 

Its a valid comparison in that, everyone develops differently. He's being taught how the team wants him to perform right now. Everyone wants to hold it over him that he's not a 30 goal scorer in the league this year.

 

We drafted on need and potential. Let's give him time to grow into it, the same as most teams do with their young kids.

 

WAY too early to be overly critical of him.

[73 Percent]

9 minutes ago, guntrix said:

I tend to totally disregard people who use reports instead of watching him play firsthand. 

 

Dude's improved no doubt but he's still far from where we want him to be. I'm guessing the reports coming out of Utica are also morale-boosters; no sense in further knocking the kid's confidence. 

I tend to ignore frogs. 

[guntrix]

6 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Its a valid comparison in that, everyone develops differently. He's being taught how the team wants him to perform right now. Everyone wants to hold it over him that he's not a 30 goal scorer in the league this year.

 

We drafted on need and potential. Let's give him time to grow into it, the same as most teams do with their young kids.

 

WAY too early to be overly critical of him.

You do understand that Bert got 39 points in his very first season in the NHL right. I mean, he demonstrated that the potential was there. 

[Junkyard Dog]

Jokingly

[VegasCanuck]

8 minutes ago, guntrix said:

You do understand that Bert got 39 points in his very first season in the NHL right. I mean, he demonstrated that the potential was there. 

#1, teams were playing a much looser style of game in the 90's

#2, he was playing for a NY team that was freely giving developing kids pretty good ice time

#3, pretty sure that because of #2 and the general performance of the team, there wasn't much pressure for defensive responsibility on that team

#4, His second season, he also spent time in the IHL because of consistency and performance issues.

 

Look at his performance after his first year. A lot of kids have a pretty good first year and then struggle when they have more responsibility placed on them. Canucks are trying to get him playing the way they want him to play, before giving him much ice time in the NHL. Fixing this stuff is easier when they are first learning how to play in the NHL.

[gameburn2]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 5:31 PM, flickyoursedin said:

Virtanen is never gonna be a Todd Bertuzzi. Once people stop trying to look at Virtanen as a guy that should be creating offence and more as a complementary player will they appreciate what he can bring to the team. I think this might be his thought as well and his play suffers from trying to do too much. He's going to be a player thats going to need to rely heavily on the creativity and skill of his line mates much like Lucic benefitting from the skill and passing ability of Krejci, Bergeron, Kopitar and now McDavid. I do still think Virtanen can become a Lucic lite player for us in the future if he's playing with an elite top 6 centre and he realizes his role.

Virtanen is still a work in progress.  I think he will be, at minimum, a Torres.   He is a great passer and a fantastic skater.  His problem is his other skillset: he hits like a truck.  And in a market/on a team with so little physicality, this can be an easy option for him.  He has to be a Neely type: hold the puck, make plays, go to the net like Horvat and provoke the occasional penalty (a la Burrows.) 

 

I think he is a young player, young for his age.  Two tricky injuries in his Junior career have retarded his development.  Nevertheless, he is the real deal, or at least could be.  If he can be the player he is meant to be, he could be another Mike Bossy with a bit of Neely thrown in.  Think of him as 19 and a half, rather than in his twenties.

 

 

[VforVasili]

Changed my user name just to support the rise of Virtanen someday... soon. He will rise up and surprise all the doubters!

[guntrix]

4 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

#1, teams were playing a much looser style of game in the 90's

#2, he was playing for a NY team that was freely giving developing kids pretty good ice time

#3, pretty sure that because of #2 and the general performance of the team, there wasn't much pressure for defensive responsibility on that team

#4, His second season, he also spent time in the IHL because of consistency and performance issues.

 

Look at his performance after his first year. A lot of kids have a pretty good first year and then struggle when they have more responsibility placed on them. Canucks are trying to get him playing the way they want him to play, before giving him much ice time in the NHL. Fixing this stuff is easier when they are first learning how to play in the NHL.

Second season he spent time in the IHL yet still got 23 points in the NHL despite his sophomore slump...

 

The rest of that post is straight reaching. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by guntrix

[Noble 6]

I just watched a couple of his game highlight packs. He had a nice reverse hit, an open net where he hit the crossbar (unlucky), some good shots, 1 good hit and some good zone entries.

 

You can definitely see that he is a bit faster in a straight line than most people. He needs to come back into his own zone the get going on the breakout, but once he gets going he's pretty tough to stop. They were actively trying to get him to carry it up on the powerplay and gain the zone, which he did. 

 

He had some chances to work 1 on 1. One time he had his man beat on a cut to the inside but his teammate got in his way. He lost the puck on an attempted move a couple times as well. He did do a good job reading the play and supporting the strong side as the weak side winger, which lead to those chances. He also had a 1 on 2 where he dangled around the last guy with someone on his back. He didn't get a shot, but a relatively nothing play was turned into some zone time. 

 

I was expecting more physical play from him, but it wasn't there. He had a couple of hits, but that's it. I think it might be that it's more difficult in the AHL without the same adrenaline as he was getting in the NHL. It could also be that he has diverted his focus from that to concentrate on other areas of his game, mainly defensive positioning. If he makes the hit every time, he might be out of position defensively. 

 

Once he's in the zone, his game begins to break down. He has 2 options in his head; pass it to the point or shoot. He rarely gets open as he's either at the front of the net or taking too long to find the soft spot. With his physical tools, he should be able to protect the puck and spin off of guys to create time and space for himself and more importantly his teammates. I don't expect him to be threading the needle to his teammates, but create space for them. He should be able to beat most people out of the corner or from the boards 1 on 1. From there, he should challenge the defenseman and make him choose between covering the loose player with the puck or leaving his teammate open. That's how he could open up space for his linemates, which could be invaluable if they are high IQ players. 

 

He definitely has shown that he has the potential to do that, it's just a matter of training his mind. That will take time. I expect him to spend the full year in the AHL next year as of right now and then re-evaluate at the end of the year. 

 

For now, I was dissapointed with what I saw. I was hoping that he would be a bit more impactful, but hopefully that can come in the future. As a big Virtanen fan, I hope he figures it out. 

 

I can't help but think about how good he could be with a guy like Nylander. If he can create havoc and time for a guy like that, it would have the makings of a deadly line. Nylander would be absolutely lethal with the time and space Virtanen could create him. Finding a center who plays the same way as Nylander should be the top priority for the Canucks. Hopefully Hischier can be that guy 

[canuckledraggin]

5 hours ago, wellnon said:

Ive watched 3 games so far online.  I try to watch 4 or 5 a season and stay up to date on what happened game to game.  Yes he has improved a lot throughout the season and he has been somewhat snake bitten but that can only be an excuse for so long.  Eventually he has to start producing.  He's a 20 year old kid and has plenty of time to improve.  My concern is when comparing him to similar players drafted in the first round that are having success in the league he really does not stack up well.  Stats are not everything but they are something and jakes stats dont give me a lot of confidence at this point and time.    

He is trying to be a bit too fine with his shots and he shoots from everywhere looking for rebounds for his linemates. Not including the many shots that sail over the bar or miss just wide, his shooting % is 5.7. That is unsustainably low and as he works on his shot in game situations he will start putting up points. 

 

The parts of his game that have improved this season don't show up on the scoresheet. Backchecking, forechecking and boardplay, positioning, and breakouts from his own zone are all better. The biggest thing is conditioning and riding the bus and playing 3 games in 3 nights can only help get his cardio to the next level.

 

His ability to read defenders and try moves to get around them is a luxury that he has in the AHL, because Green isn't going to bench him and he hasn't been a healthy scratch since being sent down. His hand eye is noticeable and he picks off plenty of passes that come his way.

 

I would hope that he gets away from Vancouver this summer and train with some different players, but I am sure that he will have learned his lesson riding the buses, making 1/10th the money, and sucking wind on the bench between shifts. 

 

 

[wellnon]

8 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

He is trying to be a bit too fine with his shots and he shoots from everywhere looking for rebounds for his linemates. Not including the many shots that sail over the bar or miss just wide, his shooting % is 5.7. That is unsustainably low and as he works on his shot in game situations he will start putting up points. 

 

The parts of his game that have improved this season don't show up on the scoresheet. Backchecking, forechecking and boardplay, positioning, and breakouts from his own zone are all better. The biggest thing is conditioning and riding the bus and playing 3 games in 3 nights can only help get his cardio to the next level.

 

His ability to read defenders and try moves to get around them is a luxury that he has in the AHL, because Green isn't going to bench him and he hasn't been a healthy scratch since being sent down. His hand eye is noticeable and he picks off plenty of passes that come his way.

 

I would hope that he gets away from Vancouver this summer and train with some different players, but I am sure that he will have learned his lesson riding the buses, making 1/10th the money, and sucking wind on the bench between shifts.

Yes I agree with you but the point I was trying to make is I won't get excited about him eventually becoming a top six forward until he starts hitting the score sheet more consistently because he has not had a good offensive season since we drafted him.  Backchecking, forechecking, boardplay, positioning, breakouts, conditioning are all great but its time to take a step offensively.  Hopefully that will come sooner in the next couple seasons rather than later or never.    

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, guntrix said:

Second season he spent time in the IHL yet still got 23 points in the NHL despite his sophomore slump...

 

The rest of that post is straight reaching. 

My only point is, too many of the people in this forum have no patience. 

[monkey2]

Bertuzzi has nothing to do with Virtanen

[terrible.dee]

3 hours ago, monkey2 said:

Bertuzzi has nothing to do with Virtanen

Agreed,

 

Bertuzzi was actually a lot like Kassian, u would always see flashes of sublime skill, between the boneheaded vacations, there was never a doubt with Bertuzzi or Kassian, even though the latter never found his full-time skill gear> Still there was never any doubt either was a supremely skilled player. Jake dominated kids in JR trampling them while going north-south, that wasn't Bertuzzi or Kassian although both could do it, there was way more to their skill set, Jake has never shown anything close to what Bertuzzi or Kass did, and to be honest there was never any reason to think this guy would be a significant offensive player. I think Matt Cooke might be a decent comparable, without the over the top dirty plays, or Justin Abdekator

 

Both of those players were hungry though, sometimes Jake reminds me of Jordan Schrader, A guy who just doesn't seem to want to stand out.

[terrible.dee]

10 hours ago, gameburn2 said:

Virtanen is still a work in progress.   He is a great passer and a fantastic skater.  His problem is his other skillset: he hits like a truck.  And in a market/on a team with so little physicality, this can be an easy option for him.  He has to be a Neely type: hold the puck, make plays, go to the net like Horvat and provoke the occasional penalty (a la Burrows.) 

 

 

 

1

I don't recall any great passing but if what you say is true, lets convert him to center! A guy with size and speed who can get in position in the slot, defending his own slot or in  the neutral zone to distribute the puck, is our #1 need. No more dum dum winger hockey either, you HAVE to be smart to play center, the responsibility is huge.

 

Maybe that's what Jake needs, more structure and clearly defined jobs, like a center, wingers have waay too much free time on thier hands if they don't have self discipline it can be a detriment.