Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[TNucks1]

1 hour ago, BCNate said:

Sorry for the long post.  I have been following  this kid all year through various forms of media, and would like to give my 2 cents.  

 

I am really hoping that Virtanen has a great summer to work with some conditioning coaches and skills coaches, and sets himself up to take on a larger role in Utica next year.  I feel that this season was a "reset" in his development, and his games has been stripped down to the very basics.  I am not at all concerned by his stats, as I don't believe that him producing points was the main goal for this year, it was simply to develop a strong 2 way game that will translate well in the NHL, and correct many flaws in his game.  I do believe that has been achieved, and should be looked at as a positive step forward.

 

Next year will be a critical year in his development.  If he comes to camp in shape, he should be in a top 6 role in Utica, with (hopefully) Boesser, Dahlen, and maybe this years 1st rounder.  Next year is when I will hope to see his offensive game come around.  I truly hope that they don't rush him back to the NHL next year for him to play 10 minutes a game on the 4th line.  

 

Virtanen likely won't be as good as W Nylander in his career, and we likely made the wrong pick in the long sun.  So be it.  It happens to many teams every year.  I am sure that Buffalo (Reinhart), Calgary (Bennett), and the  Islanders (Dal Colle) would love to go back and pick Nylander as well.  That does not mean Virtanen is a bust.  He is a developing 20 year old power forward with a unique skill set.  Give him 2-3 years and he could be a very key part of our next core, right at the time when we need him to be.  Many of the best power forwards in the league over the past 20 years were  not producing a 20, 21, or 22 year olds, the ones that did are the exception.  Virtanen may never be worthy of the 6th overall pick, let alone a 1st round pick, but it is far to soon to come to that conclusion at this stage.

i'd much rather have reinhart than Nylander.

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, Derp... said:

If the Canucks were really thinking they would have approached the Virtanen's and asked them to move Jake to Finland so that he could play his junior years there instead of in the WHL. Then the Canucks could draft him and assign him to Utica like Nylander. Looking back on it now... I'm not sure why they didn't, it seems pretty simple... Uproot a family and young boy, move him to a country where he doesn't speak the language to pursue a career in professional sports. Lots of people come to Canada with that dream, so isn't it time we sent some the other way?



Jokes

They couldn't even do that, as Jake was already the property of the CHL team and could only go to Europe with the Hitmens premssion. 

 

JB and the Canucks placed themselves in a position of drafting a player that was under the control of one of their biggest rivals in Jr as the Hitmen are owned by the same group that owns the flames. 

 

It was the NHL or the Hitmen or nothing. 

 

EW

[Derp...]

2 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

They couldn't even do that, as Jake was already the property of the CHL team and could only go to Europe with the Hitmens premssion. 

 

JB and the Canucks placed themselves in a position of drafting a player that was under the control of one of their biggest rivals in Jr as the Hitmen are owned by the same group that owns the flames. 

 

It was the NHL or the Hitmen or nothing. 

 

EW

If it was before Jake declared he would play for the Hitmen it would have been fine. Lots of players get drafted to CHL teams and don't go. Just a hypothetical though.

[BCNate]

1 minute ago, TNucks1 said:

i'd much rather have reinhart than Nylander.

Fair enough.  Pretty different styles of play.  I made the assumption of Buffalo based on production and the fact that they drafted his brother as well.

[Phat Fingers]

37 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I get the sense that Boeser will probably be the quickest to adjust to the pro game. Dahlen next, and Jake last. That's ok, though. Hopefully if that trio plays together, that would light a fire under Jake and his game. 

 

Jake is making some strides on learning the pro game.  It may just be me, but I get the feeling that he will tear things open when he gets a real chance on the left wing. 

 

IMO Jake has been getting the Myagi (sp?) treatment 'wax on wax off' etc... sooner or later (hopefully not later) he is going to put it all together and be the player he was drafted to be.  

 

EW

 

 

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, PlanB said:

This year's 1st plays with his existing team or with the Canucks,  but not with Utica - age restrictions.

Unless we pick Hischier. I think he's allowed to go straight to the AHL, just like Puljujarvi since he's playing in a mens league in Europe. I think it's an NA age restriction only--maybe even only the CHL, though I'm not sure on that one. That said, I don't think we'll be lucky enough to get Hischier.

 

EDIT: After writing this, I checked and realized he's in the QMJHL but was playing in the Swiss league prior to that. Hmm... I heard from someone that he could jump straight to the AHL, but maybe they were wrong.

[Gaudette Celly]

1 hour ago, wellnon said:

Thats how radio works.  Morning guys are suppose to stir the pot and create talking points for the day.  They are just doing their job.  

The problem is that these guys (except Blow Jake) are supposed to have and be communicating sports knowledge, and when people hear them say stuff like that it just perpetuates the "Canucks management are incompetent, don't know what they're doing, Toronto's doing a #properrebuild" media narrative.  Fine to have that opinion, but when it's based on FALSE information there needs to be some accountability.  In this particular case, that information has been well-known, even since the draft 3 years ago. 

 

Btw, it wasn't Jake or Pratt that said it but a woman they had on in the studio, yet nobody corrected her and instead just played along and perpetuated the moaning and bashing.

[EagleShield]

38 minutes ago, ajhockey said:

Unless we pick Hischier. I think he's allowed to go straight to the AHL, just like Puljujarvi since he's playing in a mens league in Europe. I think it's an NA age restriction only--maybe even only the CHL, though I'm not sure on that one. That said, I don't think we'll be lucky enough to get Hischier.

 

EDIT: After writing this, I checked and realized he's in the QMJHL but was playing in the Swiss league prior to that. Hmm... I heard from someone that he could jump straight to the AHL, but maybe they were wrong.

Applies only to players playing in WHL, OHL and QMJHL with the exception of those who have been loaned by their club which is not a CHL club.

[BoDangles53]

2 hours ago, junglesniper said:

We all know he has the tools/skills it takes to be an effective NHL'er. The sheer power and speed he can play with are unprecedented to this organization, that has never been my issue. You're right that his issue is being mentally prepared, engaged shift to shift and the focus to be trusted in all situations on the ice; I have echoed these statements in the past. But that's where my worries lie, if he'll ever be mentally engaged enough. Tat's the biggest unknown because some players just get it and some don't.

 

I'm glad you're someone who played the game at a high level, and while I never played as high as you, I played 3 years of Junior while being a full time University student. But that also means that you've seen many players that you played with or against that either had the propensity to put the mental game together, or did not. It's not truly binary, but the mental makeup of a player is a pretty crucial indicator of NHL success and definitely a differentiator in being an impact player. The area that separates players like Ghallager, Stetcher, Toews, Horvat, etc. is "between the ears", as coaches would say. Not to say it can't be taught or improved, but it's been Jake's knock for a long time. 

 

Again, I'm cheering for him, but I'm also fully aware of his downfalls and the risk it poses to his NHL success. He is "learning" in the AHL right now, I get that, but he was sent down at the beginning of the season to "practice" and "gain confidence" because we want him to be an offensive player. Regaining your offensive touch and learning the defensive intricacies of the game are not mutually exclusive. He should be able to work on his offense all while learning the pro game (albeit he should have learned a lot last year), yet we've all seen his production.

It's been his knock yes but reality is, even as someone who played junior you'd know

 

1. You don't score 'goal scorers' goals without having a decent hockey IQ - his ability to see and capitalize on opportunities to score shows hockey sense

 

2. Now while he may not be Ehlers in terms of creativity he still has buckets full of game sense

 

3. That wasn't even the issue I was discussing. I wasn't talking about hockey IQ -it was mental focus there is a difference.

 

One of the biggest issues in moving from junior/college to pro is not only the speed of the game but the ability to process the game quickly -all players say this. This comes from 'learning the game' the systems, listening to your coaches, but also mental focus. Realize that, in junior or college you can get away with losing your check or your positional assignment because of your athleticism and ability to recover -recovery speed, in the pros, even the AHL or Europe you cannot. The game is all about countering on errors now. That's why so many teams focus on trying to teach players to play 200ft. A 200ft game is hard physically but also mentally, focus wise. You don't need a high hockey IQ to play defense to be honest you just need to know/learn to play positionally, and work your tail off and not allow your mind to lose focus.

 

I suspect this (focus) is alot of Jake's issue (and not that he has a low hockey IQ) because as I said  you and I both know the difference between a 3rd line grinder in Jr who scores and they types of goals Jake scored - you need a decent hockey IQ to score like he did and can. Jake likely, in junior could lose 'in game focus' and it never mattered, he could recover given his speed, in the NHL not so much, add in his fitness issues, now you're physically tired, your mind gets tired. Then you're stapled to the bench and start losing confidence etc.

 

Jake will be fine, he needs to address alot of issues but being with Green will help him. Learning to be a pro isn't just about playing defense, its about how you approach the game, your focus going in your mental preparation, and your focus shift to shift. He's learning that, and it takes time.

 

I think Jake is learning that his physical attributes are not enough now, that it's actually hard work to stay mentally focused, to be in shape and they both matter just as much at the pro level. Working to be in top shape, and starting to learn how to mentally stay 'in the game' every stride of every shift doesn't mean he has low hockey iq - it means he is transitioning from being a very talented and gifted amateur athlete who got away with natural ability to now learning what it takes to be a pro...Example, I occasionally saw Paul Kariya in my gym in the offseasons when he was in anaheim. I used to notice when he was on the bike, just slowly warming up he would close his eyes and would be moving his arms like he was shooting. Here was a guy, offseason, riding the bike, visualizing. Can you imagine how much focus he had when shift to shift? Anecdotal but you get the point

 

Any athlete knows, if you're out of shape you get mentally lazy as well. I guarantee you if he comes back to camp in shape next year you'll see alot of improvement on the mental side. One more year in Utica and his in game focus will be solid and people will forget all this nonsense (assuming he commits himself to it, which I think he will).

Edited March 24, 2017 by BoDangles53

[-AJ-]

21 minutes ago, EagleShield said:

Applies only to players playing in WHL, OHL and QMJHL with the exception of those who have been loaned by their club which is not a CHL club.

So is Hischier being loaned by his Swiss team?

[hobart16]

http://www.cnyhomepage.com/sports/comets-faceoff-jake-virtanen/679411030

 

Interview with Jake (click on 2d and 3d videos of 4).  Good question at 2:50 of part 3 and he handled it diplomatically.  

Edited March 24, 2017 by hobart16

[Gaudette Celly]

19 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

The morning buffoons on TMS1040 were doing the hand-wringing 2014 draft redo, and made the comment "The Canucks didn't develop Jake properly, not like the Leafs did with Nylander.  He didn't go to Utica in his rookie season..."

And once again today, it only takes a few minutes to hear them to do it again.  Today it was actually the normally Pratt counterbalance Satiar who claimed "Management said at the beginning of the year they were a playoff team."  Er no, they said their goal was to compete for one of the two wildcard spots.

 

Maybe it was because they had Gallagher on that he wanted to join in the ghoulish moaning and making up of refuse to support a narrative.  Then in hisses the salivating goblin with "lies lies lies!"  What was pretty funny though was them playing the WWF Kane music to introduce him.  That should be TonyG's theme music for any segment.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

22 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

salivating goblin

I thought that was an early candidate for Goldobin's nickname?

 

Or maybe it was what most of us looked like when we watched Goldy score that first goal? 

 

 

[TheOgRook]

19 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

And once again today, it only takes a few minutes to hear them to do it again.  Today it was actually the normally Pratt counterbalance Satiar who claimed "Management said at the beginning of the year they were a playoff team."  Er no, they said their goal was to compete for one of the two wildcard spots.

 

Maybe it was because they had Gallagher on that he wanted to join in the ghoulish moaning and making up of refuse to support a narrative.  Then in hisses the salivating goblin with "lies lies lies!"  What was pretty funny though was them playing the WWF Kane music to introduce him.  That should be TonyG's theme music for any segment.

Yeah, that first part..  it's the same Schtick some on here use, twisting facts to create a buzz.  shouldnt every Gm say our goal is to push for a playoff spot?  Typical TMZ 1040 gargbage.  The locals suck, we need new blood, even Botchturd doesn't even bother reporting anymore he just trolls the fan base.  Almost makes you envious guys like Jeff Marek are back east, although I guess that's why he's paid the big bucks.  

[Gaudette Celly]

42 minutes ago, hobart16 said:

http://www.cnyhomepage.com/sports/comets-faceoff-jake-virtanen/679411030

 

Interview with Jake (click on 2d and 3d videos of 4).  Good question at 2:50 of part 3 and he handled it diplomatically.  

Thanks, he confirmed that he's now 213lbs.  Some other interesting info, including the combine where he said 29 teams interviewed him and the Canucks had 16 people there whereas most teams had 5 or 6.  Another good one was what piece of advice he'd have for himself as a rookie, and he said to earn it, give it your all, and be an everyday player -- ironically exactly what management said they wanted out of him in sending him down.  He's sounding more mature, more straight-laced now.  Good interviews.

[Gaudette Celly]

3 minutes ago, TheOgRook said:

Yeah, that first part..  it's the same Schtick some on here use, twisting facts to create a buzz.  shouldnt every Gm say our goal is to push for a playoff spot?  Typical TMZ 1040 gargbage.  The locals suck, we need new blood, even Botchturd doesn't even bother reporting anymore he just trolls the fan base.  Almost makes you envious guys like Jeff Marek are back east, although I guess that's why he's paid the big bucks.  

I don't know the details of the new media deal, but maybe we'll get a new squad here with guys like Hirsch and Randork who will at least be straight-shooters and not twist things around playing bad-cop just to get ratings and boost their ego by enraging the simple-minded in the fanbase against the team.

[TheOgRook]

2 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

I don't know the details of the new media deal, but maybe we'll get a new squad here with guys like Hirsch and Randork who will at least be straight-shooters and not twist things around playing bad-cop just to get ratings and boost their ego by enraging the simple-minded in the fanbase against the team.

Let's hope, I really don't mind critical but when all you are is critical, over critical and dramatic you lose al credibility.  

 

   Have you ever listened to any TSN radio coverage of the leafs?  Used to watch leafs lunch just cause I liked the chemistry of the trio. On top of that they always had good guests.  Even though guys like O dog can be a tool sometimes, he would never outright trash his team.  That's what I want as a fan.. hard nosed straight shooter, but at the same time fair. After all it's fans who are supposed to be listening.  If 1040 wants to continue this scthick of theirs they should just move to Alberta.  

[Gaudette Celly]

No, but sounds good.  Of course they have all the resources in the world at the Centre of the Universe, and could even segment it so fanboys have a station, haters have another, etc.

[TheOgRook]

2 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

No, but sounds good.  Of course they have all the resources in the world at the Centre of the Universe, and could even segment it so fanboys have a station, haters have another, etc.

The show got so popular they moved it from the noon slot to the rush hour slot.  It's a host Brian Hayes Non pro hockey guy, but a very educated sports guy.  And depending on schedules 2 hockey guys.  Kinda similar to the Hockey Central at Noon setup, but more "hip" I guess you could say?  James Odogg O'Neil and Jamie Noodle Mclenan are a couple fun loving good old boys like myself . You'd like the cut of their jib

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, TheOgRook said:

Let's hope, I really don't mind critical but when all you are is critical, over critical and dramatic you lose al credibility.  

Critical is fine, particularly when warranted. My key beef is being ill informed and hand in hand with that, the TMZ1040 sensationalist crap. I don't even know any more if they're truly ignorant of facts (which is bad enough on it's own) or if they just ignore/twist them (or outright lie) simply as a means to produce drama and fill air time/gain listeners (which is far worse).

 

Their job should be to inform and educate the masses (critical or otherwise). Not misinform them (whether by accident or design) and using that misinformation to whip the less informed in to a frothing frenzy.