[Report] Johansen and CBJ far apart on a new deal

[wallstreetamigo]

I love Johansen's potential but one "good" season of 63 points (not exactly tearing the league apart) and the rest of his career being plagued by inconsistency and questionable conditioning and work ethic does not sound like a good risk/reward profile at this point in time for the Jackets to hand out long term franchise dollars.

As much as I hope it leads to a trade to Vancouver like everyone else, I greatly respect Kekalainen's stand here. He is 100 percent right. The kid (and his idiot agent) need to let him just shut up, play the game, and earn his franchise money. And actually I am not sure I want the kid if he is this much of a greedy douche.

Bieksa needs to superman punch his agent. (He is Bieksa's agent too.....lol)

[Me_]

You say Horvat is a Benning endorsed player, but propose Bonino?

Yes. Horvat is a Benning endorsed player. Therefore I do not see Benning trading Horvat.

[Me_]

I love Johansen's potential but one "good" season of 63 points (not exactly tearing the league apart) and the rest of his career being plagued by inconsistency and questionable conditioning and work ethic does not sound like a good risk/reward profile at this point in time for the Jackets to hand out long term franchise dollars.

As much as I hope it leads to a trade to Vancouver like everyone else, I greatly respect Kekalainen's stand here. He is 100 percent right. The kid (and his idiot agent) need to let him just shut up, play the game, and earn his franchise money. And actually I am not sure I want the kid if he is this much of a greedy douche.

Bieksa needs to superman punch his agent. (He is Bieksa's agent too.....lol)

When's the last time you worked in Columbus, knowing very well that you could have the exact same job in Vancouver, New York, Toronto, Chicago, Montreal, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and numerous other, bigger, more accessible, more desirable cities throughout North America?

[elvis15]

Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland

Word is Ryan Johansen will be leaving Columbus today and will continue skating elsewhere until a contract agreement is reached #CBJ #NHL

Coming back home to do informal skating on his own?

[Bigturk8]

Yes. Horvat is a Benning endorsed player. Therefore I do not see Benning trading Horvat.

I think the point being made is that by the same logic, Benning probably wouldn't trade Bonino either.

[elvis15]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets-ryan-johansen-dispute-shining-spotlight-on-agent-kurt-overhardt/

In his office 3,000 kilometres from Columbus, Don Maloney knows what Jarmo Kekalainen is thinking.

"I understand what they are going through," the Coyotes GM said Tuesday.

Three years ago, a frustrated Maloney navigated his way through a stalemate with Kyle Turris, another Kurt Overhardt client. After a bitter estrangement and brief reconciliation, Arizona eventually traded Turris to Ottawa, ending the saga and allowing everyone to move on.

"It’s difficult, I empathize with them completely," Maloney said. "Time is going to determine who is willing to give in to a degree…(Johansen’s) a good player. They like him, they want him, but they have fiscal responsibilities."

Kekalainen unloaded on Overhardt and unsigned first-line centre Ryan Johansen in The Columbus Dispatch, saying, "When training camp starts, that’s it. After that, the focus is on the guys who are there on tryouts or guys who are under contract. That’s it. That will be the only focus."

"From their side, hopefully, this should be about Ryan Johansen and his future, his long-term future and his long-term future with the Blue Jackets," Kekalainen added. "This shouldn’t be about setting a new standard or about an agent breaking records."

Then, later Tuesday night, Columbus president of hockey operations John Davidson went even farther in an interview with The Dispatch and The Hockey News.

"It makes no sense," Davidson said. "When you see numbers that are thrown at us, we shouldn’t even respond. That’s how bad it is. It’s embarrassing. And if the kid sits out, he sits out. I wonder if the agent’s going to pay him his money back that he’s going to lose by sitting out…With the numbers they come back with…are so one-sided it’s nonsensical. It’s extortion is what it is."

"What’s interesting is people talk who really don’t know the CBA or just want to see something happen. They say, ‘We’ll just meet halfway. Give him $4 million or $4.5 million.’ That doesn’t make sense. You don’t just give him an extra million or two. A lot of people say it who are writers, broadcasters, fans…they don’t understand the process. They don’t understand the CBA. It’s sitting there. It’s a document. What are we supposed to do, give in when we have rights? Give in when they have rights? Just give in? It doesn’t make sense."

Reached earlier Tuesday, Overhardt refused to get into a war of words.

"The most important thing I can do is not react," he said. "This is not an emotional situation for me or my client. Ryan loves playing on Columbus. (He) is fully committed to the organization. We’re going to ignore the noise on the outside and focus on getting a deal done."

Sometimes, the toughest thing is deciphering code. Overhardt took pains to mention that three times in our conversation, and I think what he meant is that this is not the same situation as Turris’s.

The moment Turris refused to report to the Coyotes in 2011, there were rumours he’d asked to be traded. Overhardt confirmed that three weeks after the season began, saying the dispute was never about money. To Maloney, that is an important difference.

"Kyle was a high pick, he hadn’t had success. He wanted a fresh start, he needed a fresh start," Maloney said. Overhardt worked very hard behind the scenes to get an offer sheet for Turris, and, at one point, made accusations that the NHL’s ownership of the Coyotes prevented that from happening.

At this point, there is no indication Johansen wants the same thing.

The one thing I absolutely believe from Davidson is the Blue Jackets are not willing to meet in the middle of this divide. While their offer is $3.5 million per season on a short-term bridge deal, (approximately $3 million away from Overhardt’s last pitch), I don’t see them saying, ‘Let’s saw it off in the middle.’

I’ve thought their max was $4 million, but right now, who knows?

Both Davidson and Kekalainen took pains to point more blame at the agent than the player, but there’s no doubt they want Johansen to hear everything. At 22, this is new for him, and they know one of the fastest ways to end this is by having the centre say, "That’s enough."

I don’t despise agents (after all, I use one), but what this story continues to do is put Overhardt in the spotlight. He’s not among the biggest like CAA, Newport or Octagon, but he’s got a strong base.

In 2009, client Brandon Dubinsky missed one week of training camp in a contract dispute with the Rangers. Post-Turris, there was a staredown between Ryan Kesler and the Canucks, where Overhardt refused to give Vancouver many trade options. Columbus was annoyed last season at how long it took to get Kerby Rychel’s rookie deal done. Now there’s the Johansen situation.

It’s created hurt feelings.

"He represents himself as a guy who has the team’s interest at heart as much as the player’s, but it’s completely the opposite," one executive said. "I get that’s an agent’s job to maximize salary, but in the modern NHL, a player who wants to play on a winning team…there’s a certain amount of compromise that must occur. If you are truly trying for every (bleeping) nickel, you take away a team’s ability to get assets to make you win."

...

And a little Canucks tidbit at the end I thought I'd include:

...

Perhaps the funniest story that came up in research was told by former client Brendan Morrison, who played 934 NHL games.

In 1999, Morrison was negotiating his second contract with New Jersey and it wasn’t going well. He briefly went to the Czech Republic but came back because you have to clear waivers if you play overseas after puck drops on the NHL season. The Devils made it known they weren’t taking that risk.

When Morrison accepted his qualifying offer, he decided to tell Lou Lamoriello he wanted to be traded. He and Overhardt agreed it would be best if the player made the face-to-face request —alone.

"We thought if we wanted to make this real, I had to do it myself," Morrison said. "(Lamoriello) was saying, ‘Now that this is signed, let’s put it behind us, we’re family.’ I told him I didn’t know if New Jersey was the place for me…I don’t appreciate the way this was handled, move me if you can."

Then Morrison started to laugh.

"I thought he was going to eat me. Oh my God, the smoke coming out of his ears, and I was so nervous because asking for a trade was not like me at all…it worked out for everybody. I ended up getting moved. They got Alexander Mogilny and won a Stanley Cup. It was a good thing personally."

Fourteen years later, Overhardt and Lamoriello combined on the first maximum eight-year contract under the new CBA, with Travis Zajac.

As for the trade demand, "At the end of the day, it comes down to the player," Morrison said. "He’s the guy who has the final say."

[aGENT]

Man Kekalainen and Davidson's comments sure sound... frustrated, strained etc.

That generally translates to not having the upper hand in negotiations IMO.

[oldnews]

J Davidson is hurting himself and the CBJ imo with every word he utters in that vein.

3.5 is an equally embarrassing offer to a franchise talent like Johansen imo - whether JD likes it or not, he should be looking at the reality of players like Seguin or a handful of Oilers, and get himself prepared to pony up.

I have little doubt that Johansen will give them a market value $6 million season next year - that's pretty much where he is at already - but regardless, the comments that JD is making about "extortion" are extremely dramatic and quite inappropriate imo - and telling the player he isn't welcome in the dressing room until a deal is done is kind of daft as well.

I don't think the CBJ have handled this well at all.

[aGENT]

J Davidson is hurting himself and the CBJ imo with every word he utters in that vein.

3.5 is an equally embarrassing offer to a franchise talent like Johansen imo - whether JD likes it or not, he should be looking at the reality of players like Seguin or a handful of Oilers, and get himself prepared to pony up.

I have little doubt that Johansen will give them a market value $6 million season next year - that's pretty much where he is at already - but regardless, the comments that JD is making about "extortion" are extremely dramatic and quite inappropriate imo - and telling the player he isn't welcome in the dressing room until a deal is done is kind of daft as well.

I don't think the CBJ have handled this well at all.

On a positive note, perhaps it leads to a trade (to Van!)

[wallstreetamigo]

I think this will end up with Johansen being traded. And it will be somewhere like Chicago or Boston that totally pisses us off.

[elvis15]

And not only did they voice displeasure with the agent, they decided to release the offers they've made to Johansen today:

Michael Arace @MichaelArace1

CBJ media day off to rousing start. JD comes right out and announces what the team has offered Johansen: $6M/2yrs, $32M/6 yrs, $46M/8. Wow.

That's a $3M, $5.33M and $5.75M cap hit respectively. All are low, verging on insultingly low.

[oldnews]

Davidson has also commented that Johansen may be a franchise player in the future, but not yet.

Well, if we look 'objectively' at what Johansen did for the CBJ last year, it's pretty much indicates that JD's comment doesn't really hold water at this point.

Johansen:

-lead his team in goals 33 and points 63.

- faced the strongest quality of competition among CBJ regular roster players.

- he had some of the best underlying numbers on the CBJ with 45.1% offensive zone starts, 51.5% finishes, strong qoc, and a relative corsi of +3.1 in that context.

- played 18 minutes a game and his 2.61 pp60 was top 50 in the NHL.

- he was 52.8% in the faceoff circle, taking over 1300 draws - which puts him in elite territory, among the top 25 facefoff guys in the NHL - at age 22. That is very impressive.

- big frame, skates like mad and adds a physical element to his game (114 hits).

How that translates into a 2x3 bridge is utterly mysterious.

When you take the aggregate, what you have is a player who is pretty much already a 'franchise player'.

So, I may not be a fan of KO, but when JD suggests that RJ's camp is embarrassing themselves with their demands, I'd have to disagree and suggest that offering 3.5 is easily as ridiculous as RJ asking 6 or 7. Imo, they should probably just lock him up as long term as they can in that range and count their long term blessings.

I hope they remain steadfast and stubborn and refuse to budge much. If a deal wound up being cut, I probably wouldn't hesitate to offer him $6 considering the fact that he's certainly in a class with the likes of Seguin and the young Oil making that kind of money - I'd probably take him over any of his comparables making that money.

[oldnews]

And not only did they voice displeasure with the agent, they decided to release the offers they've made to Johansen today:

That's a $3M, $5.33M and $5.75M cap hit respectively. All are low, verging on insultingly low.

I agree elvis - the first bridge is an utter joke, and the longer term deals would be absolute steals for the CBJ - he's already producing better than market value at those caphits, and he's only 22.

I think 2 x 6 million (O'Reilly's deal) is more reasonable imo than 2 at 3, or if longer term, prepare to pay for a franchise player.

I don't think the CBJ are in a position to be suggesting that RJ is embarrassing himself with his demands - if anything CBJ management is coming accross (far too publicly) as amateurish and overly dramatic.

[wallstreetamigo]

And not only did they voice displeasure with the agent, they decided to release the offers they've made to Johansen today:

That's a $3M, $5.33M and $5.75M cap hit respectively. All are low, verging on insultingly low.

I dont think any of them are insulting low. Even 3 milluon on a short term contract is very much in line with other bridge deals for comparable players. Although it is abit low i would not say it is insulting. But a 5.75 mil long term contract for a guy coming off his elc deal? That is an amazing payday based on his body of work so far at the nhl level.

[HowYaDrouin]

If P.K can sign a bridge contract for 2.875 over 2 years coming off his ELC, how can Kurt or Ryan possibly expect 6 million coming off his ELC? P.K had 2 great productive years under his belt when he signed that bridge deal, RJ's had 1.

The only way RJ comes out on top here is if he ends this stalemate driven by Kurt, and approaches Kikko himself and says lets get a deal done. Kurt's notorious for taking these young promising players and turning them into villains in the market that they play in. ie Kesler in Van, Turris in AZ, Dubinsky in NY, and as a poster mentioned above, even Rychel in CBJ (which was a ELC, the most standardized contract in professional sports).

My advice to Ryan, model your career plan off PK, take a 2 year bridge deal for a bit of a discount, regain the fans that you've lost in all this, and become the face of the franchise. Then 2 years from now, ask for the big money that you will have EARNED and cash in; however the most important thing you can do is fire that dumb SOB of an agent that represents you, because you're coming out as the bad guy in this, and no deal will get done in the near future with him at the helm.

[elvis15]

I agree elvis - the first bridge is an utter joke, and the longer term deals would be absolute steals for the CBJ - he's already producing better than market value at those caphits, and he's only 22.

I think 2 x 6 million (O'Reilly's deal) is more reasonable imo than 2 at 3, or if longer term, prepare to pay for a franchise player.

I don't think the CBJ are in a position to be suggesting that RJ is embarrassing himself with his demands - if anything CBJ management is coming accross (far too publicly) as amateurish and overly dramatic.

And to think, we used to disagree a bit back in the day. That may have been more about style than substance, but imagine all the fun we would have missed out on if we'd just decided to put each other on ignore?

I dont think any of them are insulting low. Even 3 milluon on a short term contract is very much in line with other bridge deals for comparable players. Although it is abit low i would not say it is insulting. But a 5.75 mil long term contract for a guy coming off his elc deal? That is an amazing payday based on his body of work so far at the nhl level.

While they aren't there yet they are verging on that in my opinion. In the NHL prior to this CBA I would have totally agreed with your assessment for the longer deals, but sadly we live in the new CBA now, with Getzlaf and Perry (easily comparables for Johansen's future) making $8.25M and $8.625M respectively. Except they didn't put up as good of numbers when they were the age Johansen was last year and were still in their ELCs before signing matching $5.325M, 5 year deals coming out of theirs. That was seven years ago, so factor in inflation and current deals and it's not unreasonable at all Johansen would expect more.

[elvis15]

If P.K can sign a bridge contract for 2.875 over 2 years coming off his ELC, how can Kurt or Ryan possibly expect 6 million coming off his ELC? P.K had 2 great productive years under his belt when he signed that bridge deal, RJ's had 1.

The only way RJ comes out on top here is if he ends this stalemate driven by Kurt, and approaches Kikko himself and says lets get a deal done. Kurt's notorious for taking these young promising players and turning them into villains in the market that they play in. ie Kesler in Van, Turris in AZ, Dubinsky in NY, and as a poster mentioned above, even Rychel in CBJ (which was a ELC, the most standardized contract in professional sports).

My advice to Ryan, model your career plan off PK, take a 2 year bridge deal for a bit of a discount, regain the fans that you've lost in all this, and become the face of the franchise. Then 2 years from now, ask for the big money that you will have EARNED and cash in; however the most important thing you can do is fire that dumb SOB of an agent that represents you, because you're coming out as the bad guy in this, and no deal will get done in the near future with him at the helm.

PK's the exception rather than the rule, look at my Getzlaf/Perry example above. Remember that was a team that had just won the championship on the backs of their older, established players and still signed their two young stars to $5.325M, 5 year deals coming out of their ELCs. Johansen's in the same category as those two were back then, except he's doing more to carry Columbus at this point if he can continue the numbers he put up last year.

But Johansen's been willing to consider less, but with a 4 year term. Columbus has been very strict on a 2 year term, or the lower, long term cap hits where they're buying some of his UFA years.

[Robongo]

Guys you obviously don't understand the CBA! They'll be fired if they meet RyJo in the middle!

[HowYaDrouin]

CBJ offered RJ a 6 year contract worth 5.25, and they said they weren't even in the same ball park, RG also had 82 points in 77 games coming out of his ELC and signed a 5 year deal worth 5.3 million. Even with inflation, I'm sure CBJ would love to lock up RJ at 6 million over 6 years. But that's not what KO wants, he wants to set a record for the most expensive bridge deal ever signed, so that he can ask for Toews/Kane/Stamkos money in 2 years time.

Take the discount now so you can cash in later. Just like PK, who's making 9 million a year, and is like a French God in MTL.

[Plum]

I wouldn't mind throwing an offer at Johansen. This is a young, 22 year old PWF who is getting better. He already put up 63 in 82, he can put up 70+ next season, and possibly 80+ next season.

Bonino + Horvat + 2015 1st is something I'd do. Johansen is a 1st line centre, we can hope Horvat becomes one, our 2015 1st will be a late one with Johansen on our team. Johansen replaces Bonino, we already have McCann and Gaunce as our future top 9 centres.