Amish Rake Fighter Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Bonino has more skill and hockey sense but Kesler is a better athlete. Transplant Kesler's brain into Bonino's body and you've probably got a bottom 6 forward Transplant Bonino's brain into Kesler's body and you've got an allstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S.Strowbridge Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Let's try to match them up Start with the base If kesler fought Bonino who would win? Okay, now hockey stuff Who would win a race? Who has a better shot? Who passes better? who kills penalties better? more reliable on a powerplay? better faceoffs? If Kesler and Bonino matched up for a face-off who would win more often? If kesler had to shut down Bonino for a game how would that go? If Bonino had to shut down kesler for a game how would that go? Which is a better shot blocker? If you are being honest then kesler is all around and pound for pound a better complete player. Bonino has some traits that may be more fun to watch but Kesler is more desirable from most coaches perspectives. I don't care that he's gone if he wanted to go but he's better than anything we got in return. If Kesler fought Bonino who would win?: Who cares? Who has a better shot?: This year, Bonino. Who passes better?: Bonino, because he actually passes. who kills penalties better? more reliable on a powerplay?: Players play five-on-five more than they do on the special team, so five-on-five stats are more important. Which is a better shot blocker?: This year, Bonino. Bonino also has a better +/- on a team with a much weaker goal differential. Over the last three seasons, Kesler was injured for 41 games. That's half a season and not an insignificant number. During those 41 games, the Canucks played better without him than with him. That difference got worse each season. Kesler is a skilled player, but something changed that made him a selfish player that hurt the team. Even if Bonino isn't as good of a player as Kesler is, he helps his teammates more, so overall the second line is better with Bonino than it was with Kesler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 If Kesler fought Bonino who would win?: Who cares? Who has a better shot?: This year, Bonino. Who passes better?: Bonino, because he actually passes. who kills penalties better? more reliable on a powerplay?: Players play five-on-five more than they do on the special team, so five-on-five stats are more important. Which is a better shot blocker?: This year, Bonino. Bonino also has a better +/- on a team with a much weaker goal differential. Over the last three seasons, Kesler was injured for 41 games. That's half a season and not an insignificant number. During those 41 games, the Canucks played better without him than with him. That difference got worse each season. Kesler is a skilled player, but something changed that made him a selfish player that hurt the team. Even if Bonino isn't as good of a player as Kesler is, he helps his teammates more, so overall the second line is better with Bonino than it was with Kesler. This year after 9 games. Don't make me defend Kesler, he is the enemy now and I didn't like him much when he was here. Bottom line is, Kesler has an excellent shot, he is better at defending, he plays a more aggressive game. Bonino is way more of a playmaker and may also have an excellent good shot. Bonino may become a better player than Kesler in the long run, but to suggest that he is better now because of what has happened this year so far is basically playing darts with one eye closed. I hope Bonino is better in the long run, but at this point it's just "Hometown Harry" vs "Negative Neil". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 This year after 9 games. Don't make me defend Kesler, he is the enemy now and I didn't like him much when he was here. Bottom line is, Kesler has an excellent shot, he is better at defending, he plays a more aggressive game. Bonino is way more of a playmaker and may also have an excellent good shot. Bonino may become a better player than Kesler in the long run, but to suggest that he is better now because of what has happened this year so far is basically playing darts with one eye closed. I hope Bonino is better in the long run, but at this point it's just "Hometown Harry" vs "Negative Neil". Pretty much what you said. I know we're on a canucks forum and it's cool to hate Kesler now but come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckFather Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Kelser is a superior player to Bonino in every aspect. Sorry, although I am happy with the trade, I am happy with Bonino... but cmon..... Kesler is a beast... even if his starts are representing it... he is a better player then Bonino. Lets just move on.No doubt Kesler is a beast of a player, but he was an unhappy beast here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S.Strowbridge Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 This year after 9 games. Don't make me defend Kesler, he is the enemy now and I didn't like him much when he was here. Bottom line is, Kesler has an excellent shot, he is better at defending, he plays a more aggressive game. Bonino is way more of a playmaker and may also have an excellent good shot. Bonino may become a better player than Kesler in the long run, but to suggest that he is better now because of what has happened this year so far is basically playing darts with one eye closed. I hope Bonino is better in the long run, but at this point it's just "Hometown Harry" vs "Negative Neil". Granted, it is early in the season, but Bonino isn't playing that much better than he was all last year, so I don't think it is unfair to look at these numbers. I'm not saying Bonino is definitely the better player, but you can't look at the stats and say Kesler is the far superior player either. At worst, you would say Kesler is a great second line center vs. Bonino is a capable second line center. However, I am willing to say Bonino on a line with Burrows and Higgins is better than Kesler on the same line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturk8 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Granted, it is early in the season, but Bonino isn't playing that much better than he was all last year, so I don't think it is unfair to look at these numbers. I'm not saying Bonino is definitely the better player, but you can't look at the stats and say Kesler is the far superior player either. At worst, you would say Kesler is a great second line center vs. Bonino is a capable second line center. However, I am willing to say Bonino on a line with Burrows and Higgins is better than Kesler on the same line. What i'm getting out of this is that sometimes the better player is not always what's best for the team. I personally think that Kesler is the better player, but his style of play didn't work with his wingers. Attitude aside, if we did a 1 for 1 swap with the two right now, I think our team might be worse off despite any difference in talent. That's a big "might" but I don't think it's completely unreasonable. Chemistry means alot in this league. Our PK seems to be rolling fine without him, our PP is shored up with Vrbata (although he might add a kick to the second unit), and our second line scoring looks like it could be more consistant (small sample size). There are a lot of "coulds" and "what if's" in this discussion, it'll be a lot of fun to watch it play out as the season goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Too early to make final determinations of course, but for now Anaheim, defensive performance, pk, and pp have all improved while they remain atop the west, despite so-called subtractions throughout their lineup. Yup, they're still good. Meanwhile the Canucks have faced relatively cushy opposition so far, but have found their pp get better, but their defense get worse. I think this trend so far was pretty predictable considering the moves the Canucks made in the offseason. Time will tell whether the power play and the Sedins can carry us through a long season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Kesler has 2 GWG's in 57 playoff games Bonino has 3 GWG's in 24 playoff games Bonino is clutch in different ways than Kesler. Bonino has yet to single handidly dominate a playoff series like Kesler has. I'm sure he will eventually, but until then Kesler is the more proven playoff performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Granted, it is early in the season, but Bonino isn't playing that much better than he was all last year, so I don't think it is unfair to look at these numbers. I'm not saying Bonino is definitely the better player, but you can't look at the stats and say Kesler is the far superior player either. At worst, you would say Kesler is a great second line center vs. Bonino is a capable second line center. However, I am willing to say Bonino on a line with Burrows and Higgins is better than Kesler on the same line. Bonino has done something that Kesler couldn't, that's have chemistry with Higgins, I won't say Kesler wouldn't have had chemistry with Burr though, they probably would have. I've already eaten my words on Bonino once this year and I hope to continue to munch away. I agree that they are not far apart in overall talent, even equal, but they are so different in playing style. In the current system I'm glad to have Bonino despite my expectation that he will not maintain this point getting pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry to make an off topic, silly post. but I just have to say this. I had a weird dream about the Canucks the other day, and Bonino was in it. I was like some kind of a Canucks representative/ guide, and it was my job to show him around the city a bit and get him settled in with his new team and stuff like that. All I remember was taking him for a speed boat ride through False Creek, to the Rogers arena. The weird thing is that the city looked so different. The sky was over cast and dark, and there were all these modern looking buildings, and some sort of oddly shaped, black structure, and the edge of the water was lined by a steep pebbly shore. And none of those ugly high rise condos that are everywhere in real life. It was kind of like a futuristic dystopian city in a way lol, but it wasn't unpleasant though. It was really impressive looking. I thought wow this is really awesome. I never noticed how cool it looks here before. They must have changed it a lot since the last time I was here. Bonino was a new player and new to the city and all so I wanted him to like it here and give him a good impression of the city. I was so impressed with the way it looked myself, that I thought surely he must be impressed with it too. This is exactly what my ayahuasca trip would be like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aladeen Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 This is exactly what my ayahuasca trip would be like Except with more vomiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 As has been noted, it wasn't a 1 for 1 swap. It's nice to see that in the early going Bonino is scoring well and his wingers are getting more used than used to be the case, but obviously it's really too early to analyze this trade. Also, it is quite possible for both teams to come out ahead on a trade. They have different goals. I'm going to try to analyze it anyway. A. What did Anaheim want out of the deal? Anaheim has a contending team. It wanted to try to win the Cup with that team, so wanted to improve its chances of beating the Kings and Hawks and similar teams in the playoffs. B. What did Vancouver want out the deal? -get Kesler the #*!*) out of the dressing room -try to stay competitive -get younger and try to build for the future. C. How is it working out for Anaheim? Well, obviously it's too early to tell. They've had an excellent start to their season. Kesler's value to them isn't just in scoring, but in defence, in the faceoff circle and in the pressure he can take off other lines because of his defence and faceoff ability. His scoring is only one of several factors in which he'll contribute to the team's success. However, we really have to wait and see how this season and next go for the Ducks. If they win a cup with Kesler as a big contributor, they've gotten what they wanted out of the trade-it will have been a winner for them. D. How is it working out for Vancouver? Again, it's obviously too early to tell, but it looks like: -Kesler is no longer in the dressing room (addition by subtraction?) -Bonino is able to replace Kesler, not in the sense of replacing his quality but in the sense of being capable of playing the position, scoring and having his teammates involved, which helps the Canucks stay competitive despite losing Kesler's scoring, faceoffs and defence. Bonino is several years younger than Kesler and has far less NHL minutes on the ice so could well be producing after Kesler is finished. He's a less physical player than Kesler which might have reduced the wear and tear on his body relative to Kesler. (If Bonino puts in 3 years as a productive 2nd line center, imo the Canucks haven't actually lost by doing this trade, regardless of what Kesler does and regardless of how Sbisa and McCann turn out.) Sbisa is a project. He does some things right, he makes some mistakes, but he's a young defenceman who brings a physical presence. It's too early to say whether he'll pan out as a useful player, but the Canucks are giving him the chance to play and develop. It's a pity he can't develop in Utica-he's only spent 10 games in the minors when he probably would have been better served being allowed to develop slower-but he'd have to clear waivers to get to the AHL. I like his chances of becoming a reasonable NHL defenceman in a couple of years, but all we can do now is speculate. McCann is looking very promising so far. Obviously Bonino, Sbisa and McCann are younger than Kesler. The Canucks have shown some problems, as expected, but are 5-3 to start the year. They aren't championship contenders but aren't a bad team, either-they're competitive (at least most nights.) Bonino has not been the same player as Kesler-different strengths and weaknesses-but he's so far been able to play well enough that the Canucks don't need a 2nd line center. Many would be happier with him on the 3rd line, but in the brief start we've had to the season, 7 pts and + 3 in 8 games seems pretty good for a 2nd liner, and with the team winning 5 of those games, so far the team seems to be competitive (though with huge variations in play from game to game.) Of course, the sample size is so small that one can't really tell much, if anything, from the stats. +/- suffers from small sample size problems even over a full season, as does scoring though perhaps not to the same extent. All we can say is that, with great variation game by game, our second line with Bonino centering it seems to be doing ok. They're younger. If Bonino can be effective for a few years, they don't lose the trade. If Sbisa or McCann develop into a useful player for a few years, they come out ahead of what they would have been without the trade. If Sbisa or McCann get to be above-average NHL players, then they come out well ahead of where they would have been. We won't know for some time, but it is very likely the Canucks got what they wanted out of the trade. They wanted Kesler gone-done. They wanted to get younger-done. They wanted someone to take Kesler's spot on the 2nd line-done (though some wish Bones was playing 3rd line.) In 5 years, Kesler should be done, but Bonino might still be playing, McCann if he makes it will be entering his prime, and Sbisa if he develops could be with them. Their prospects for the future have improved, without losing so much in the present that the team is at the bottom of the league. So, possibly the Ducks win, and probably the Canucks win. They could both win. How effective Bonino is with the Canucks doesn't affect whether the Ducks win, and whether Ryan Kesler is drinking champagne out of the Cup next June doesn't affect whether the Canucks win. I've ignored the switch of 3rd rounders. The Canucks turned the 3rd rounder from the Ducks into Dorsett. t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new look 'nucks Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 When did it become the norm that you trade a player for the same said player? They are totally different players... hence the "new direction" teams want to go when they make a trade. Bonino is not Kesler, Kesler is not Bonino. Both bring different games. Apples and Oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menace Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 That's a tough comparison it's apples and bananas to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooks Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 "Bonino isn't clutch"http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fZVg1TIhVaU This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Just watched this TSN clip of Dave reid complimenting the canucks on their new found depth. At the 40 second mark he comments on Bonino., "tremendous speed,tremendous vision with the puck". LOL another gem form the well informed, Toronto Sports Network http://www.tsn.ca/video/th2n-canucks-depth-comes-to-the-rescue-1.119006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Lord Baltimore Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 This is absolutley true. We came out pretty good on this deal. I like Bonino. But it doesn't change the fact that Kesler was a beast for the Canucks for a number of years. His performance against Nashville in the playoffs was legendary. I agree. I appreciate the time he was here and what he did for us, however, I won't miss his attitude or drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I guess Mcguire does have the insight into a lot of players in the league. He repeatedly said that Bonino was going to surprise everyone and that he was going to help the Canucks be "very good" this year. Mackenzie has the insider scoops, but Mcguire is probably the best scouting analyst around,which is why I guess he keeps getting GM interviews. Kesler 3 goals, 5 assists for a total of 8 points (4 of which are in the power play where he is getting 1st unit minutes)... in 19:50 TOI Bonino 6 goals, 5 assists for 11 points (only 2 of which are on PP where he is getting 2nd unit minutes)... in 16:43 TOI I am not saying Bonino is a better player than Kesler... but he is younger and with a lot less miles on him and seems to be fitting into the team without a lot of fuss or drama. I can't wait to get my NB13 line of clothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrissex95 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Bonino isn't better then Kesler. In my opinion he's a better shooter, but he can't eat minutes or drive play up the middle like Kesler. On the other hand, he's a fantastic bargain financially speaking. When we start bringing guys like Shinkaruk and Jensen in as full-time players, Bonino is going to be exceptionally valuable in a 200-foot game of inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.