messier's_elbow Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Bieksa has frequently been a target here on CDC - just take it with a grain of salt. Also- good post OP. Yeah back in 2008-9 around that time, when he had the calf problems guys wanted Bieksa gone for a bag of cheetos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I guess that depends on your definition of successful. I don't see this as a successful team to be honest. His definition of successful goes something like ... 3 wins in 17 playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Hmmm. It's a business alright, and there are model franchises out there that see fit to retain their valueable core players. Why is this formula being discarded while trying to sell the fans into this model franchise method is confusing. As for the blame game, I'm not sure why Bieksa is being targeted over his ridiculously horrible partner, for starters. If Bieksa was valuable you might have a point. But realistically he is totally replaceable. And you are ignoring the fact that most of the best teams have moved parts of their previous core in order to get younger and better when the opportunity presents itself and it becomes obviously necessary. Teams aren't keeping those guys unless they actually still bring value and skill that helps the team win. No one can realistically say Bieksa is bringing anything irreplaceable to this team anymore. He is just taking up a spot where we can save some cap to help improve the overall team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 If Bieksa was valuable you might have a point. But realistically he is totally replaceable. And you are ignoring the fact that most of the best teams have moved parts of their previous core in order to get younger and better when the opportunity presents itself and it becomes obviously necessary. Teams aren't keeping those guys unless they actually still bring value and skill that helps the team win. No one can realistically say Bieksa is bringing anything irreplaceable to this team anymore. He is just taking up a spot where we can save some cap to help improve the overall team.You are aware that this logic applies to almost every player on the team, right? "Well, he's just taking up a spot. We don't have a legit replacement, but hey, there's a spot." Higgins Hansen Burrows Vrbata Miller Bonino Kassian Matthias Dorsett Richardson Vey Kenins McMillan Baertschi Edler Sbisa Hamhuis Tanev Weber Lack Stanton Markstrom ALL fall in this category you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Oh please. You clearly have no clue what makes a successful hockey team. Here is a real example for a myopian like you. Look across town at the BC Lions. They are a successful organization; way more successful than the Canucks. They have won the Grey Cup multiple times and year after year, roll out a competitive team. Why? Buono and staff are excellent and recognizing when a player is no longer as useful as they once were and act accordingly. It's a concept that escapes Canucks fan who want to hold onto players for emotional reasons; much like yourself. New leaders emerge when old ones leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 For anyone defending Bieska please ask yourself, Is canucks defence good enough and does it need to get better if we want to compete? There is a real simple answer for that, canucks need size on the point and they also need a “real good” puck mover. There are only 6 roster spots, there is only 71 million in cap space. Something has to move out so we can bring something in. Easiest fix is move out the player that provides little offense, little defence, has a high cap hit, is only getting slower with age and is likely not resigned at the end of next season. There are my reasons to wanting Bieska gone. I don’t blame Bieska for the series loss, but it’s safe to say our core isn’t getting it done and hasn’t gotten it down for a while now. I see Bieska as a cap and roster spot anchor from this team getting better. Move him out, (he’s gone at the end of the year anyway) get a small return and then sign and fill a “current” hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 You are aware that this logic applies to almost every player on the team, right? "Well, he's just taking up a spot. We don't have a legit replacement, but hey, there's a spot." Higgins Hansen Burrows Vrbata Miller Bonino Kassian Matthias Dorsett Richardson Vey Kenins McMillan Baertschi Edler Sbisa Hamhuis Tanev Weber Lack Stanton Markstrom ALL fall in this category you describe. When did I say any of those players should not be looked at the same way? If getting rid of them improves the team then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I love Bieksa, he's been the heart and soul for us, but he's lost a couple steps, and it shows in his play. He's not the player he used to be anymore. I don't wanna see him go, but at the same time, I think it would be necessary to cut him loose. His cap and performance are hurting us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 The goalie we had in his place put up better numbers anyway. Bottom line is Calgary is every bit as good as Canucks and probably better. And if the Canucks don't make some moves to get younger, the Flames will be beotch-slapping the Canucks around for the next decade. I don't think any of us have an appetite for that. I wouldn't say Calgary is a lot better at this point. They've got an edge on us, but also this season they massively over achieved. They remind me a lot of the Avs from last season. They have an average goaltender in Hiller, as well as a weak forward group outside of the top line and now Bennett. That being said though, in 2-3 years, the Flames are gonna be an absolutely lethal team. Vancouver will need to build a lot more if they want to match Calgary. The Flames are on a good trend up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Kingsly Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I love Bieksa, he's been the heart and soul for us, but he's lost a couple steps, and it shows in his play. He's not the player he used to be anymore. I don't wanna see him go, but at the same time, I think it would be necessary to cut him loose. His cap and performance are hurting us.Yes, agreed 100%. Its not like I hate bieksa and can't wait to have him gone.. I will miss him, its just they way I think best serves this organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 People need to separate personal from business. Hockey is a business and the objective of teams is to win the Stanley Cup. Trading away a player like Bieksa is not a personal attack on his reputation or history as a Canuck. It is not a personal indictment of him as a person. It is simply a business decision to be made to improve the team. And it is how we should all want our management to look at all ayers coaches etc. the goal is to get better where we can. Not coddle vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 People need to separate personal from business. Hockey is a business and the objective of teams is to win the Stanley Cup. Trading away a player like Bieksa is not a personal attack on his reputation or history as a Canuck. It is not a personal indictment of him as a person. It is simply a business decision to be made to improve the team. And it is how we should all want our management to look at all ayers coaches etc. the goal is to get better where we can. Not coddle vets. But one must realize that anyone paired with Sbisa will have a horrible season. Chara, Doughty, Weber, Subban would all suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Kingsly Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 People need to separate personal from business. Hockey is a business and the objective of teams is to win the Stanley Cup.Trading away a player like Bieksa is not a personal attack on his reputation or history as a Canuck. It is not a personal indictment of him as a person. It is simply a business decision to be made to improve the team. And it is how we should all want our management to look at all ayers coaches etc. the goal is to get better where we can. Not coddle vets.YES, YES, YES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orka Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 You make good points, but I think you're taking the hate too personally. Most people on CDC just point fingers at juice when they get confused... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 People need to separate personal from business. Hockey is a business and the objective of teams is to win the Stanley Cup. Trading away a player like Bieksa is not a personal attack on his reputation or history as a Canuck. It is not a personal indictment of him as a person. It is simply a business decision to be made to improve the team. And it is how we should all want our management to look at all ayers coaches etc. the goal is to get better where we can. Not coddle vets. Exactly. Nobody wanted Naslund or Morrison to go, but at the same time, it was their times to leave. Every players comes then goes eventually. I think it's Bieksa's time to leave now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuckin Kingsly Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 But one must realize that anyone paired with Sbisa will have a horrible season. Chara, Doughty, Weber, Subban would all suffer.Could be the other way around?, sbisa is the only one on our backend that brings constant physicality. Hopefully he can limit his turnovers next year. I think he will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 But one must realize that anyone paired with Sbisa will have a horrible season. Chara, Doughty, Weber, Subban would all suffer. I actually disagree with that. The only player who he didn't play reasonably well with was Bieksa. And the other guys played reasonably well with Sbisa too imo. He has his warts but he is also young and has room to to grow as a player. If there is one d on our team who the others seem to not play well with it is actually Bieksa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I wouldn't say Calgary is a lot better at this point. They've got an edge on us, but also this season they massively over achieved. They remind me a lot of the Avs from last season. They have an average goaltender in Hiller, as well as a weak forward group outside of the top line and now Bennett. That being said though, in 2-3 years, the Flames are gonna be an absolutely lethal team. Vancouver will need to build a lot more if they want to match Calgary. The Flames are on a good trend up How do you know they over-achieved? That team works extremely hard, and hard work buys you a lot of success. If the Canucks had matched that, they would have won the series. But they didn't, and couldn't. Playing closer to your potential is a good thing....and the Flames did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 You want to hang your hat on the opinion that Edler did not get some of the toughest minutes on our d? And that Bieksa did? No core d was more sheltered than Bieksa and he still stunk it up on the ice. 1) Bieksa didn't play with Tanev 2) Bieksa didn't get the bonus +/- of always being with the sedins 3) Luckily for Edler -'s don't count on the PK...when you're in a position that even pee-wee players would question. There was no tough minutes...all our D suck $&!# besides Tanev, so to Blame 1 is complete bull$&!#. No one of this team should be untouchable except for Tanev, Horvat, Virtanen and this years 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 You make good points, but I think you're taking the hate too personally. Most people on CDC just point fingers at juice when they get confused... lol I don't hate Bieksa. I hate the way he plays sometimes. Just like several other players. What I hate is losing and hanging onto the same players for fear that things might not get any better. It is a loser mentality imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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