Live Long Enough to Become the Villain (Bieksa)

[wallstreetamigo]

Bieksa always play well when he has a shutdown defenseman to play with, which would be Hamhuis, because Bieksa's style of play is like a rover. The only reason Desjardin didn't play them together was because he didn't trust Weber and Sbisa together. What they need to do this offseason is find a dman who can play replace Weber and play with Sbisa

Have you seen how incredibly bad Hamhuis and Bieksa have been any time they played together the last few years? 2011 called they want their reality back.

Instead of trying to insulate and shelter Bieksa wouldn't it be easier to just find a player who doesn't need that level of babysitting?

[Qwags]

Who would be an appropriate replacement for Bieksa if he were traded?

[aGENT]

I don't see any way to fill those boxes without Bieksa and one or two other big contracts leaving at a minimum.

That's why Benning's above your (and my) pay grade

As I said, I'd not be surprised if Bieksa is deemed expendable in the path taken to meet those goals. But it's not impossible he stays either. Moving Miller and Higgins would be a good start to making that happen but it's only one of many routes the team might go.

[aGENT]

Who would be an appropriate replacement for Bieksa if he were traded?

Corrado if we're using our own prospects. Adam McQuaid if we go the UFA route and want a good, physical 3rd pair D (which I'd love personally).

[wallstreetamigo]

That's why Benning's above your pay grade

As I said, I'd not be surprised if Bieksa is deemed expendable in the path taken to meet those goals. But it's not impossible he stays either. Moving Miller and Higgins would be a good start to making that happen but it's only one of many routes the team might go.

What is more likely moving a free agent goalie he signed last year or a declining dman that he didn't sign but must make a decision on this upcoming season?

It is not high end intelligence it is common sense. The only reason to keep Bieksa is to not risk alienating all the whiny fans who would rather lose with him than move on for s better chance to win.

I will not be surprised if he stays actually and is extended. But if we have a shot at Green or Franson then I would rather waive Bieksa if need be. Because if Bieksa is a key guy on our D we will continue down the same path.

The opportunity cost of Bieksa and his contract is huge. He is the only one on d that could conceivably be replaced that didn't recently re-sign. Hamhuis is not replaceable as easily yet.

[bigbadcanucks]

Who would be an appropriate replacement for Bieksa if he were traded?

If I'm Jim Bean, I'd pick up the phone and give my buddy Ken Holland a call and see if he's willing to trade me Jakub Kindl for Kevin Bieksa.

Jakub Kindl: cap hit - 2 year left at $2.4M AAV. RHD, 6'3" 214 lbs. (according to the Hockey News); 28 years old; fairly mobile; hasn't really been given a legit shot in the NHL. Only knocks against him would be that he found himself in Babcock's dog house and he's been battling injury bugs that has kept him out of the lineup for 3 to 12 games per season over the past four years.

Caveat: I'm not really Ken Holland's buddy. I'm pretending to be Jim Benning in my post.

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

The hate that Bieksa has garnered is unbelievable, this is the same guy who scored the winning goal to send us to the finals, that goal was just as important as Burrows'. This is the same guy who took a paycut to stay here. He has a year left and after that he would likely play for dirt cheap and be a serviceable defenseman to close out his career. His season was tainted because he played with a garbage player like Sbisa.

Take note most of you may not have noticed, but after Sbisa had that brutal giveaway on Ferland's goal, him and Bieksa only took shifts with the twins. This shows how Sbisa has brought down his dman. Doesnt anyone remember how well this guy plays if played with a proper partner. Just look at Edler, he looks terrible when he plays with anyone other than Tanev, why not trade him he has a greater value. You don't trade players like Bieksa, and the funny thing is if you think about it for a second none of you truly want to. You people love this guy but are trying to hate him after one series where Sbisa was the worst player and brought him and the whole team down.

You either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain..Bieksa is what this city needs but not someone who we deserve

I totally agree with you. As a player Bieska has slowed down, but his room presence and grit he still offers is invaluable to the Canucks. Sbisa is a train wreck. I would put Bieska with Corrado, Hamhuis with Sbisa and Tanev with Edler. Unless we can get a number 1 d-man like Letang from Pittsburgh... I don't see a big change on the back end!

[Alex Burrows 14]

You are wrong sir. Bieksa was just as bad as sbisa. It's the turnovers. If he can move the puck faster that would be very nice. If you don't have a play chip it off the glass and get it to the neutral zone at least. Don't force it.

[Heretic]

Interesting "Province" article...Let Jim Benning's "plan thingy" run it's course...

Interesting choice this.

In a format designed to minimize candour and maximize traffic to their website, the Vancouver Canucks had players file out to face the media in groups of four on Monday.

That’s right. In their final availability of the season, the Canucks were being sent off in foursomes, just like the afternoon draw at Fraserview. They were even spaced some 15 minutes apart — and we’re not sure, but Eddie Lack might have been wearing plus-fours.

But we digress.

In the aftermath of the Canucks’ six-game loss to the Calgary Flames, there has been clamour for change among the faithful. This is almost a spasmodic response to the team’s first-round ouster and while it’s somewhat predictable, and familiar, following a Canucks’ failing, it’s also misguided.

That’s provided, of course, you believe in Jim Benning’s vision for this team.

Change is coming next season. But it’s not the slash-and-burn kind of change that’s being touted in some precincts. Rather, it’s an orderly succession that’s been plotted by the team’s management.

If you’re unfamiliar with this concept, it’s called a plan.

To understand what’s coming, all you have to do is make a quick trip via the interweb to NHL Numbers, the offspring of the dearly departed CapGeek, and scroll down the Canucks’ payroll.

There you’ll find the team has 10 forwards and five defencemen under contract for next season, which means there will likely be five job openings next season: three up front, two on the blueline. We say likely because a lot of things can happen between now and next October, but five new faces represents almost a quarter of the lineup, and that should satisfy anyone’s lust for change.

The encouraging part for the faithful, however, is that change will occur organically and not as the result of a whim from management or ownership. To fill the three forward spots, for example, there are no end of intriguing possibilities who are young and, more importantly, cheap. Hunter Shinkaruk has salvaged a so-so season in Utica with a strong finish. Brendan Gaunce isn’t as dynamic but he has NHL size. Jake Virtanen has the potential to make a similar impact on the big team as Bo Horvat made this season. There’s also Sven Baertschi, Ronny Kenins and, of course, Nick Jensen, but the point is the Canucks have homegrown solutions to their lineup issues and when was the last time you could say that?

Things aren’t quite as rosy on the blueline, where Benning may have to get more aggressive. But, at the very least, Frank Corrado and Adam Clendening are options and there’s some sense that help might be made available this offseason from teams who are tight to the salary cap.

Last year, for example, Johnny Boychuk and Nick Leddy were dropped into the laps of the New York Islanders. Hard to believe it would happen again, but Philly, Boston, Chicago. L.A., and Columbus all have cap issues.

Dare to dream, Canucks’ fans, dare to dream.

While we’re dreaming, consider this. Benning is trying to rebuild this team without sacrificing a season or seasons and if the GM is right about the next wave, it might be possible.

You might think the Canucks were fortunate to record 101 points this season but they did it with decent, not great, goaltending; an illogical number of injuries; and no real standout season from their regulars. Like any team, the Canucks need a number of things to go right for them next season but let’s say Zack Kassian takes the next step and develops into a legitimate power forward, let’s say Horvat continues to grow and turns into that 50-point, second-line centreman, let’s say Virtanen is ready a year early, and let’s say they get some help on the blueline.

It might be a lot to ask, but it’s all within the realm of possibility.

“I think (the youngsters) are going to give us a chance to win over the next couple of years,” said Henrik Sedin. “We have no plans of getting any worse. If the young guys can take a few steps each and every year it will be huge for us. I think it’s a long-term solution with management.”

Again, this is easier to buy into if you believe in Benning and the newly formed organization and the belief here is they’ve earned the benefit of the doubt. But even if you don’t accept it unconditionally, somewhere along the line you have to sit back and let things unfold naturally. This franchise has been through three head coaches in the last three years and the president and GM are just finishing their first year on the job.

There’s been enough change with the Canucks. Let’s see if that plan-thingy can work.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Willes+orderly+procession+change+ahead/11008925/story.html

[wallstreetamigo]

I totally agree with you. As a player Bieska has slowed down, but his room presence and grit he still offers is invaluable to the Canucks. Sbisa is a train wreck. I would put Bieska with Corrado, Hamhuis with Sbisa and Tanev with Edler. Unless we can get a number 1 d-man like Letang from Pittsburgh... I don't see a big change on the back end!

Because his room presence has led the team where exactly? Oh ya to perennial choke jobs and utter disappointment. Sure that's exactly what we need more of!

This team needs more leaders by example and less big talkers.

His grit is overrated. Ferland made Bieksa his bitch. Ferland who?

[aGENT]

What is more likely moving a free agent goalie he signed last year or a declining dman that he didn't sign but must make a decision on this upcoming season?

It is not high end intelligence it is common sense. The only reason to keep Bieksa is to not risk alienating all the whiny fans who would rather lose with him than move on for s better chance to win.

I will not be surprised if he stays actually and is extended. But if we have a shot at Green or Franson then I would rather waive Bieksa if need be. Because if Bieksa is a key guy on our D we will continue down the same path.

The opportunity cost of Bieksa and his contract is huge. He is the only one on d that could conceivably be replaced that didn't recently re-sign. Hamhuis is not replaceable as easily yet.

Hey I'm on board with moving both if we can improve the team! I'm just pointing out what's possible. I personally think we should move Vrbata next deadline too!

There's many reasons Bieksa may not be moved or not moved until the deadline including that there may simply not be a trade available that Kevin and his NTC would agree to or Benning feels is acceptable.

[iinatcc]

I'd keep Bieksa unless there's a chance Canucks can sign Green or Franson. Otherwise trade Bieksa to a team that needs more grit (which ironically is the Canucks).

[wallstreetamigo]

Hey I'm on board with moving both if we can improve the team! I'm just pointing out what's possible. I personally think we should move Vrbata next deadline too!

There's many reasons Bieksa may not be moved or not moved until the deadline including that there may simply not be a trade available that Kevin and his NTC would agree to or Benning feels is acceptable.

I would love to see something like this:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian

Baertschi-Horvat-Vrbata

Virtanen-Bonino-Burrows

Dorsett-Gaunce etc-Hansen

Kenins, Vey

Edler-Green

Hamhuis-Tanev

Sbisa-Weber-Stanton-Corrado-Clendening etc

Lack

Experienced back up or even Markstrom

Even better balance would be Franson signed too to play with Hamhuis and Tanev with Sbisa.

[Canuck Surfer]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster

While I appreciate the media's job is to ask searching questions of players, I didn't like the way the NTC waiving questions came across to Juice and Hammer. These two guys have played through injuries, loss of form, bad mistakes and several years of pressure from the media and fans, coming through as dependable, likeable and if we're all honest, credits to the organisation. To ask them about their NTCs on the heels of such a tough season, I don't like that. Save questions like that for the GM. Ask them instead how they plan to improve for next season, what messages they can give to the fans etc.

Personally I think one of them will rebound next season - Hammer. I think Juice is on that slippery downward slope and it'll be tough to watch. Especially with him and Sbisa having such large cap hits.

Welcome aboard!

This is a very fair post. And I'd like to acknowledge that you are seeing KB3 / Hammer through thick and thin. Seeing that that had problems, but also heart and worked through things to still have a, what I call, legacy as great Canucks.

Is Kevin Bieksa a leader?

IMO anyone who questions that is being, well, stupid.

Guys like Burrows, like Bieksa are the ultimate team mates. Yes they put their heart in the blender with the team, and live with us. Good or bad. Their ultimate value is that they grew up with the team. And helped it become what it was. Think of more than hockey. Look at stories like babysitting each others kids. At Bieksa bringing Rypien into his home to live with him and his wife when he was suffering depression. At reaching out & still being involved with his family to this day. It extends beyond Rypien to taking in rookies. Then shows up in camp ripped. How to train and live as a Canuck. The ultimate all in team mate long before he takes on a 235 lb'er at center ice for a rookie!

So I have more time for Burr, and Bieksa than anyone on our team. Even when there are mistakes. Issues...

Look. I also understand issues. Its what I call the "Bieksa conundrum." Bieksa, while a leader, looses focus. It leads to turnovers. It leads to being drawn into head games at the expense of our hockey plan. Its been a factor. I have no choice but to admit it.

I believe we need to add another leadership voice, who adds a side of leadership not offered by Hank, or Bieksa.

And Bieksa is also, as TOML has succinctly pointed out, still better than haters acknowledge. A perfectly bloody good hockey players, mistakes considered and all. Not one who has been passed on any depth chart, nor one where we yet have a proper succession plan. We'll even be hard pressed to find a successor before his, same goes for Hammer, contract expires next year.

And I am not a proponent in any way, of letting guys go knowing it hurts our team. That we should throw in the towel and live with worse results because we'll get better draft picks.

What ever happened to through tick and thin?

[soshified]

Only core players i wouldn't trade are Sedins, Burrows, and Bieksa. Unfortunately, Bieksa and Burrows makes too much money. Good thing is, Bieksa is on a contract year so he'll sign for cheap next contract.

Those four bleed blue and green. Can't imagine them on any other team, they probably can't either.

[canuck73_3]

I would love to see something like this:

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian

Baertschi-Horvat-Vrbata

Virtanen-Bonino-Burrows

Dorsett-Gaunce etc-Hansen

Kenins, Vey

Edler-Green

Hamhuis-Tanev

Sbisa-Weber-Stanton-Corrado-Clendening etc

Lack

Experienced back up or even Markstrom

Even better balance would be Franson signed too to play with Hamhuis and Tanev with Sbisa.

So you want Bieksa gone because he's a perrenial loser only to sign Green who will cost 1-2 million more and is also by your definition a perrenial loser with arguably a better team and certainly weaker divisions to work with.

I'd ditch the Green idea as he'd cost more and is not a great improvement over Bieksa overall IMO especially at the price he'd likely come in at.

[bigbadcanucks]

Hey I'm on board with moving both if we can improve the team! I'm just pointing out what's possible. I personally think we should move Vrbata next deadline too!

I'd move Vrbata now. I'm gonna give Vrbata a new nickname - "Casper", for playing like a ghost in the playoffs.

We'd have to find a replacement for him, so if I'm JB, I'd try to sign Justin Williams (he'll probably replace 20 of Vrbata's 31 goals from this season...the rest would have to be made up by committee, with Bo probably making the the 11 goals by himself), or try to trade for Patrick Sharp.

New nicknames for Henrik and Daniel - Corsi 1 and Corsi 2.

[wallstreetamigo]

Welcome aboard!

This is a very fair post. And I'd like to acknowledge that you are seeing KB3 / Hammer through thick and thin. Seeing that that had problems, but also heart and worked through things to still have a, what I call, legacy as great Canucks.

Is Kevin Bieksa a leader?

IMO anyone who questions that is being, well, stupid.

Guys like Burrows, like Bieksa are the ultimate team mates. Yes they put their heart in the blender with the team, and live with us. Good or bad. Their ultimate value is that they grew up with the team. And helped it become what it was. Think of more than hockey. Look at stories like babysitting each others kids. At Bieksa bringing Rypien into his home to live with him and his wife when he was suffering depression. At reaching out & still being involved with his family to this day. It extends beyond Rypien to taking in rookies. Then shows up in camp ripped. How to train and live as a Canuck. The ultimate all in team mate long before he takes on a 235 lb'er at center ice for a rookie!

So I have more time for Burr, and Bieksa than anyone on our team. Even when there are mistakes. Issues...

Look. I also understand issues. Its what I call the "Bieksa conundrum." Bieksa, while a leader, looses focus. It leads to turnovers. It leads to being drawn into head games at the expense of our hockey plan. Its been a factor. I have no choice but to admit it.

I believe we need to add another leadership voice, who adds a side of leadership not offered by Hank, or Bieksa.

And Bieksa is also, as TOML has succinctly pointed out, still better than haters acknowledge. A perfectly bloody good hockey players, mistakes considered and all. Not one who has been passed on any depth chart, nor one where we yet have a proper succession plan. We'll even be hard pressed to find a successor before his, same goes for Hammer, contract expires next year.

And I am not a proponent in any way, of letting guys go knowing it hurts our team. That we should throw in the towel and live with worse results because we'll get better draft picks.

What ever happened to through tick and thin?

So if we can upgrade on Bieksa and his admitted declining skill set by using his cap space you are saying we should not do so because changing four years of the same results are not worth more than one player?

Anyone who looks at all the chances given this core and suggests we are not already far beyond thick and thin time is a complete moron.

No one is saying Bieksa is not a good hockey player in some ways. I know I am not anyway. But he is not a 4.6 million dollar player and for a cap strapped team that is the issue. Can that cap be spent elsewhere with a bigger bang for the buck? That is the real question and given his play I think the answer is yes.

[alfstonker]

And played better without them actually. Sad really.

Once more you look into your crystal ball Amigo. Let's face it we can't say that.

[bigbadcanucks]

Guys like Burrows, like Bieksa are the ultimate team mates. Yes they put their heart in the blender with the team, and live with us. Good or bad. Their ultimate value is that they grew up with the team. And helped it become what it was. Think of more than hockey. Look at stories like babysitting each others kids. At Bieksa bringing Rypien into his home to live with him and his wife when he was suffering depression. At reaching out & still being involved with his family to this day. It extends beyond Rypien to taking in rookies. Then shows up in camp ripped. How to train and live as a Canuck. The ultimate all in team mate long before he takes on a 235 lb'er at center ice for a rookie!

So I have more time for Burr, and Bieksa than anyone on our team. Even when there are mistakes. Issues...

What ever happened to through tick and thin?

You have a kind soul there 'surfer. I wish I were more like you.

Me, it's about balance sheets. If a player becomes a liability on the balance sheet, I would not think twice about moving the player. IMO, Bieksa is in the red and Burrows is neither in the red or the black. So, as much I like what they have done for the Canucks, I would move them if it made the team better for the present or the future.