"We could've moved Ryan Miller. There were teams calling on Ryan Miller." - Jim Benning

[SamJamIam]

Save % is a team stat, a good team keeps the majority of the shots to the perimeter. A team like the Devils allow far more grade A scoring chances, which clearly play a major role in a save %, GAA and wins.

I actually find that the opposite is true. With teams that have excellent defense, shots are suppressed but it means that the proportion of difficult shots that get through to the goalie is higher, which means a lower Sv % (though overall a lower GAA, which really is a team stat).

I think it's also a matter of confidence, that players going up against a team they know is defensively weak (especially in the East) are more likely to shoot from anywhere. However this means a lot of easy shots make it through which goalies snap up and increase their Sv % with. There is a reason so many goalies seem to do amazing on crappy Eastern teams then far worse in the West.

[Pete M]

Keeping Miller will be essential in Markstrom's development. Benning is thinking 3/4/5 years down the line, which is whats best for this team. Much better than Lack mentoring Markstrom IMO. The same process is happening to the rest of the roster gradually. Too bad the Canucks fanbase lacks patience and wants benning shot..

Crawford, Quick, and Neimi were not mentored when they won the cup.

For a goalie, you have to stop the puck and control the rebounds...they are all good goalies at the NHL level.

A good defence helps a lot ..mentoring a goalie is overrated.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Crawford, Quick, and Neimi were not mentored when they won the cup.

For a goalie, you have to stop the puck and control the rebounds...they are all good goalies at the NHL level.

A good defence helps a lot ..mentoring a goalie is overrated.

It's not so much the mentoring as it is to protect markstrom. As long as miller is here he's the number one. He's the go to guy. Markstroms expectations will be low. The team won't be counting on him to carry this team to gloryville even if miller gets hurt. It's just not expected from the back up. The low expectations keeps the pressure off markstrom and allows him to develop at his own pace.

Just like lack the last two seasons. He was the back up even when both goalies went down to injury. Lack wasn't expected to carry the team (even though he did) and if Canucks would have ended up missing playoffs last season. No one would have blamed lack for it. He's the back up. His play last season was a bonus. Not the expectation.

It's easy to be the hero when expectations are low.

Canucks are trying give the same development path with markstrom. Low expectations. Low pressure. Completely opposite as how fla tried to bring him up. Throwing him in and expecting the world from him. Miller is here to handle the brunt and keep us competitive at the same time.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Looks like Botch is further stirring the pot with some new revelations on the Eddie Lack trade: http://www.theprovince.com/touch/story.html?id=11207870&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[alfstonker]

https://twitter.com/ThomasDrance/status/619338188796997632

Interesting... Thoughts?

Edit: Btw don't know much about the source, but sounded as if this came from a Q&A with ticket holders or something..?

Why would we move out top goalie if we were trying to provide a winning environment? Jeez, we have just signed him.

As for Botchford, it all sounds very speculative to me (there's a surprise) but if there was any truth then of course the Canucks would stick out for a high price before moving Lack to a conference rival.

[SamJamIam]

When the other 95% of people are saying the same things, who is the clueless one?

Classic logical fallacy, ad populum.

Most people in the States don't believe in evolution. Doesn't mean evolution is wrong.

[elvis15]

Why would we move out top goalie if we were trying to provide a winning environment? Jeez, we have just signed him.

...

Because we had another goalie who was arguably as good while being cheaper, younger and was also developed by us? I thought we'd covered that already?

Looks like Botch is further stirring the pot with some new revelations on the Eddie Lack trade: http://www.theprovince.com/touch/story.html?id=11207870&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Yeah, his 'sources'. Not so sure on that, even if I believe Benning at least got some calls from the West.

[C.Schneider]

As Benning said, Lack was traded for to be a backup. He was NOT traded for to be a starter. His role is to be a backup, who has enough talent to push Cam Ward to his full level, and maybe, MAYBE Lack will outplay him and earn the starting job. But again, he was traded for to be a backup. I understand he's such a lovable guy, but people are acting like Eddie Lack is Cory Schneider or something. He's a hard worker, with a great and lovable personality, but as of right now, the whole league sees him as a backup. Miller is a bonifide starter, and perrenial all star. He even has the talent to be an all star next season.

Plus, Ryan Miller is the guy you want teaching Jacob Markstrom the ropes of the NHL and how to be succesful. Not Eddie Lack. I love the guy, but people let the fact that he was a good guy cloud their judgement and give him more value than he has

I'm not accusing you to be of such, but words have changed from people's mouth.

When we traded C. Schneider, more than half on this board claimed him to be a back-up as well. The "right" move for this organization to keep the bonafide starter in Luongo, and trade Schneider who didn't prove himself to be a starter and would never be as good as Luongo. Many claimed he would be a back-up for Brodeur for years to come.

Now that C. Schneider had a chance to prove his worth, people twist around their old claims and pretend they always had faith in C. Schneider. They see the Schneider over Luongo move to be one of Gillis' huge downfall.

I'm not saying Eddie Lack is the same level of talent as C. Schneider... however, to completely disregard his potential ability to play just as well as Ryan Miller of 2015-moving on (and not his old All-Star former self) is ignorant.

[BanTSN]

I started the boos btw. Just to get people going.

[alfstonker]

Because we had another goalie who was arguably as good while being cheaper, younger and was also developed by us? I thought we'd covered that already?

Yeah, his 'sources'. Not so sure on that, even if I believe Benning at least got some calls from the West.

Arguably? There is no argument Lack is nowhere near Miller in capability to carry a team and keep them in the running. I liked Lack as much as anyone but he is not yet a pressure proven first pick goalie. What we were being offered also confirms that. He's no Schneider that's for sure.

Could you imagine the disaster if Lack couldn't carry the team and Markstrom had another melt down? We would be f------!

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I'm not accusing you to be of such, but words have changed from people's mouth.

When we traded C. Schneider, more than half on this board claimed him to be a back-up as well. The "right" move for this organization to keep the bonafide starter in Luongo, and trade Schneider who didn't prove himself to be a starter and would never be as good as Luongo. Many claimed he would be a back-up for Brodeur for years to come.

Now that C. Schneider had a chance to prove his worth, people twist around their old claims and pretend they always had faith in C. Schneider. They see the Schneider over Luongo move to be one of Gillis' huge downfall.

I'm not saying Eddie Lack is the same level of talent as C. Schneider... however, to completely disregard his potential ability to play just as well as Ryan Miller of 2015-moving on (and not his old All-Star former self) is ignorant.

I don't know where your getting this from? The team came out and named Cory the starter in 2012-13. He played over 60% of the games and would have played more had he not got injured. Before we traded him he already was a starter in the NHL and was 3rd in the NHL for save % from goalies that played over half the season. Everyone knew how good cory was, that's why people were upset with only getting a 9th overall.

The only people that were saying the things you are proclaiming, are the ones that were overly upsessed with the Luongo, much like the love fest with Lack.

[IamHomer]

Arguably? There is no argument Lack is nowhere near Miller in capability to carry a team and keep them in the running. I liked Lack as much as anyone but he is not yet a pressure proven first pick goalie. What we were being offered also confirms that. He's no Schneider that's for sure.

Could you imagine the disaster if Lack couldn't carry the team and Markstrom had another melt down? We would be f------!

He carried us to the playoffs, while Miller was injured. Lack also put up better numbers against the western teams than Miller. Iunno.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

The anger over this trade is ridiculous, you would almost assuming that we just traded away young Wayne Gretzky. This is not a franchise altering move. We still have a much more than capable starting goaltending in Miller and a future starting goalie Markstrom. This deal doesn't negatively affect canucks but yet people throw up a fit as if this is a move that will cripple the canucks franchise for the next 20 years.

He carried us to the playoffs, while Miller was injured. Lack also put up better numbers against the western teams than Miller. Iunno.

There's no telling that Miller wouldn't have been able to put up the same or better numbers had he not got injured in the last part of the season.

[ilduce39]

I find Botchford entertaining but he's going overboard on this move. Everyone loved Eddy but as a player he was an average 27 year old goalie. Serviceable as a starter and great as a backup.

As Linden said they got the same player with Carolina's 3rd that they would have taken with a mid 2ndin Brisebois. No big deal.

[DeNiro]

I think some people aren't realizing how easy it is to get a player of Lack's caliber.

Yes we all loved his personality, but what he brought on the ice can be replaced. There's more talented goalies now than ever that can be had for nothing.

All we need to do is scout the European leagues for another goalie and we can develop our next Lack.

[DeNiro]

He carried us to the playoffs, while Miller was injured. Lack also put up better numbers against the western teams than Miller. Iunno.

The fact that he had better numbers than a declining vet should not be the benchmark.

It's all about developing a true number 1 goalie, not developing one who can slightly outplay a 34 year old whose best days are behind him.

[elvis15]

Arguably? There is no argument Lack is nowhere near Miller in capability to carry a team and keep them in the running. I liked Lack as much as anyone but he is not yet a pressure proven first pick goalie. What we were being offered also confirms that. He's no Schneider that's for sure.

Could you imagine the disaster if Lack couldn't carry the team and Markstrom had another melt down? We would be f------!

You're right there is no argument that Lack is nowhere near Miller in capability. There is however an argument that Lack is very much close to Miller in capability. That was shown when he took over from Miller during his injury and he put up similar numbers.

Do you want to try and say only Miller can handle a majority workload? Probable in a higher percentage than Lack, but by no means significantly more to the point that Lack can't be a starter. Maybe it's a 65/35 split that's better for Lack where Miller could maybe do 75/25, but then again with Miller's age perhaps he can't handle that much workload for extended periods as well.

But then we should also look at what we expect this team to be. We certainly want the team to be positive and have a winning atmosphere, but how much of that can we reasonably expect? What is keep them in the running? For a Stanley Cup? Or just for a one and done playoff spot? Perhaps you're worried we'll be in the running for a 1st overall pick?

He doesn't have to be Schneider to be able to start a reasonable percentage of games. Markstrom will need starts sometime, and if he's not ready to back up a starter this year then we'll be in trouble anyway. Imagine if Miller gets injured again, is that more or less plausible than Lack not being able to carry the team?

I think some people aren't realizing how easy it is to get a player of Lack's caliber.

Yes we all loved his personality, but what he brought on the ice can be replaced. There's more talented goalies now than ever that can be had for nothing.

All we need to do is scout the European leagues for another goalie and we can develop our next Lack.

Easy, eh? Then why didn't Eriksson become that player? Why doesn't every team just go out and find that player before us?

And considering the cost of players like Lehner, Talbot and even Jones - Lack's peers - I'd hardly say a replacement can be had for nothing.

[Gurn]

Eddie was as good or close to Miller, was a few million cheaper, loved by teammates and fans. Perfect personality for the upcoming tough couple of years.

Miller is older, was recently injured, more expensive and you never heard his teammates talk about him in anywhere near the same way. He has/had rep for throwing his teammates under the bus.

I'd have kept Lack and taken what was offered for Miller. Money off the cap, in goal, could shore up the D.

[slaythedragon]

Omg, this thing has been blown way out of proportion. What part of the management didn't feel Lack was a starter do people not get. He's been traded. Period. Sure Lack put up similar numbers, but he doesn't have 13 years of experience in this league now does he? It has been stated time and again, that there is no way Lack could have helped Markstrom adjust in this league, simply because he himself has not been here long enough. In fact Lack is still learning. When torts decided to ride him for 20 straight we all saw what happened to him. He can't handle the pressure yet, and no he isn't Schneider caliber either. He's far from it. And It is pure ignorance and idiocy to compare Lack with Miller. Lack is no where near Miller, not even close. It seems that in this City popularity trumps experience by a wide margin. It was the same story with Lui and Schnieder, now again with Miller and Lack. Rightfully Vancouver is a goalie graveyard. No wonder, no player is interested in playing here.

[DeNiro]

Easy, eh? Then why didn't Eriksson become that player? Why doesn't every team just go out and find that player before us?

And considering the cost of players like Lehner, Talbot and even Jones - Lack's peers - I'd hardly say a replacement can be had for nothing.

Not every guy like Lack and Eriksson will pan out. Eriksson was a 7th round pick and Lack was undrafted. We developed both, and one moved ahead of the other.

Fully developed goalies will always cost more. Nobodies giving up those picks for those guys a couple years ago. And I won`t keep going over the reasons why those two are worth more.

The point is, the amount of free agent European goalie signings is pretty high now. You can go out and get guys like Niemi or Fasth, develop them for a couple years and turn them into NHL goalies. The problem is teams don't always want to be patient, so hey'll pay a premium for fully developed goalies. But we need to stop acting like Lack was some rarity that teams were going to clamor over.

It`s pretty obvious this team has it`s sights set on a Markstrom/Demko tandem, so anything in between is simply just biding time till those two are ready to take over.