Investing in the stock market - Discussion

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Infinite growth? So long as the population is going up there will be growth....

 

A FEATURE of capitalism is the weak portions die! It's usually the small guys, but sometimes it's the big guys! Sometimes the little guys getting devoured get a big payout too. You know, the get rich joke of "Oh no our business is failing" to "Oh wait! We just got bought by Google!!!!!!" to loud cheers.

 

The problem with other systems, is that if you have a bad system, it just sits there, sucking, to "protect jobs" and "maintain services" and it's efficiency and ability to perform can degrade over time and it's hard to fix it. It's a feature of government programs but it can happen in big corporations too! Like Bed Bath and Beyond going belly up.

 

So go out and profiteer on some cheep sheets and what not if you need them! 

 

19 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Capitalism is not unfettered, not even close. Cannot think of an industry that goes about their business without government oversight. "Crony capitalism" sounds good but what do you mean? "Infinite growth"? How many industries have we all seen come and go? The 'dot com' rage was a classic. Growth or decline is not universal. "Weak are devoured", maybe they should be. Bad management exists in both big and small. SVB bank was in the $100's of Billions. Credit Suisse, $100's of Billions, both bad management. 

 

As a progressive you might not like it but how do you measure an efficient business if not by a market valuation? There will always be BS'ers in politics and business.  

Crony Capitalism:  an economic system characterized by close, mutually advantageous relationships between business leaders and government officials.

 

Crony Capitalism:  an economic system in which individuals and businesses with political connections and influence are favored (as through tax breaks, grants, and other forms of government assistance) in ways seen as suppressing open competition in a free market

 

Tell me where I am wrong about this regarding America especially since 2008 and through this issue right now in the US banking system.  This is exactly what the fallacy of infinite growth suggests.  Eventually only the large survive because only the large can pay for the protection and favours afforded them.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Warhippy

[ronthecivil]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

 

Crony Capitalism:  an economic system characterized by close, mutually advantageous relationships between business leaders and government officials.

 

Crony Capitalism:  an economic system in which individuals and businesses with political connections and influence are favored (as through tax breaks, grants, and other forms of government assistance) in ways seen as suppressing open competition in a free market

 

Tell me where I am wrong about this regarding America especially since 2008 and through this issue right now in the US banking system.  This is exactly what the fallacy of infinite growth suggests.  Eventually only the large survive because only the large can pay for the protection and favours afforded them.

Well you can call it crony but it's sometimes necessary. Bank runs, banks going under, and what not (and the way the US interfered so far was to simply bail out the depositors, the shareholders are getting nothing, as it should be...). Better regulation yada yada I agree but we're at where were at and so you just can't let it fail. You can let Bed Bath and Beyond fail so it's not like every industry is loved.

 

Now the green industry on the other hand is getting pretty crony. 12k from the BC government to get a heat pump (if you have a house so progressive!). Big discounts on electric vehicles. That's just what we got in BC from first hand inquiry. (I want a heat pump one day and my gf is interested in an electric car and would probably already have one if you could have driven it off the lot). So you know people selling those things are probably not to worried about price reductions and are happily profiteering.

 

In the states the "inflation reduction act" should have been called the "green crony capitalisms act". 

 

And no, I don't like either. If you want green then start taxing carbon more. Or sugar. Or meat. Lots of sticks left to drive behavior. And with regards to banking, you bail our the depositors, and then you raise taxes on the banks to help step in with (in the states where they are going belly up) better FDIC insurance, and maybe greater reserve requirements. And you keep doing that until they stop going bankrupt. And yes, it's stupid politics that go back and forth (see Surrey police stupidly) that just allows people to point fingers at one another all the time.

 

And for green things, you don't need to subsidize the electric car. If energy is expensive enough, the natural progression to more fuel efficient, hybrid, and electric vehicles will happen on their own. As noted, I want a heat pump because it's better. For now though since I don't have a house and thus don't qualify for the subsidy, and since providers have tons of business installing them in big houses where the money is flowing from multiple sources, I guess I have to wait.

 

So ya, government can regulate business, and tax business, but it should otherwise stay the hell out as much as possible. I fully agree.

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Well you can call it crony but it's sometimes necessary. Bank runs, banks going under, and what not (and the way the US interfered so far was to simply bail out the depositors, the shareholders are getting nothing, as it should be...). Better regulation yada yada I agree but we're at where were at and so you just can't let it fail. You can let Bed Bath and Beyond fail so it's not like every industry is loved.

 

Now the green industry on the other hand is getting pretty crony. 12k from the BC government to get a heat pump (if you have a house so progressive!). Big discounts on electric vehicles. That's just what we got in BC from first hand inquiry. (I want a heat pump one day and my gf is interested in an electric car and would probably already have one if you could have driven it off the lot). So you know people selling those things are probably not to worried about price reductions and are happily profiteering.

 

In the states the "inflation reduction act" should have been called the "green crony capitalisms act". 

 

And no, I don't like either. If you want green then start taxing carbon more. Or sugar. Or meat. Lots of sticks left to drive behavior. And with regards to banking, you bail our the depositors, and then you raise taxes on the banks to help step in with (in the states where they are going belly up) better FDIC insurance, and maybe greater reserve requirements. And you keep doing that until they stop going bankrupt. And yes, it's stupid politics that go back and forth (see Surrey police stupidly) that just allows people to point fingers at one another all the time.

 

And for green things, you don't need to subsidize the electric car. If energy is expensive enough, the natural progression to more fuel efficient, hybrid, and electric vehicles will happen on their own. As noted, I want a heat pump because it's better. For now though since I don't have a house and thus don't qualify for the subsidy, and since providers have tons of business installing them in big houses where the money is flowing from multiple sources, I guess I have to wait.

 

So ya, government can regulate business, and tax business, but it should otherwise stay the hell out as much as possible. I fully agree.

I guess the question for Hip would be how much of the economy does he want government to take? Currently they have about 56% of GDP. Will 75% drive the money lenders from the temple? It seems progressives are simply happy to dissect, Investigate and confiscate. It all works as long as they get something for nothing. Another question might be why capital is leaving Canada on an ongoing basis. Over $100 billion a year. If profits were so good in Canada why isn't that money staying here and being invested?  

[Warhippy]

I ask again.

 

Tell me where I am wrong.

 

Don't talk to me about green initiatives or claim I am a progressive or why money is leaving canada.

 

Tell me that the system in Canada and the US is not a form of crony capitalism.  Go ahead

[nuckin_futz]

Cathie Wood-linked ETF firm is shut down by Canada regulator

Ontario’s securities watchdog suspended the registration of Emerge Canada Inc., an investment firm known for selling Toronto-listed versions of Cathie Wood’s popular exchange-traded funds.  

 

The Ontario Securities Commission said the firm has failed to comply with its working-capital requirements and ordered it to wind down, or find another company to take over its activities. 

 

Emerge has been unable to file audited financial statements for latest fiscal year after its auditor quit. Last month, regulators hit the investment firm with trading bans on 11 of its funds — including six Ark Investment Management-partnered funds.

 

Emerge’s lawyers argued that suspending the firm and requiring the wind-up of Emerge ETFs “is overly punitive and is unwarranted in the circumstances.” It did not immediately reply to requests for comment.

 

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/cathie-wood-linked-etf-firm-is-shut-down-by-canada-regulator-1.1919097

[I.Am.Ironman]

Well the AI bubble is in full swing. Nvidia up 25% after hours. They will open with a 200+ PE. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

Well the AI bubble is in full swing. Nvidia up 25% after hours. They will open with a 200+ PE. It will be interesting to see where this goes.

I am sticking with GOOGL, MSFT and AVGO. 

[bishopshodan]

Wooo.

Let's go!

 

Making bank!

[nuckin_futz]

 

 

[Ronaldoescobar]

7 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

 

How this guy is still on air just baffles me. I wonder how much he has cost investors over the last year alone?

[Chicken.]

Anyone kicking themselves for not buying META when it tanked last year ?  Wild how it was 93 a share in October.. 

[bishopshodan]

It just keeps going.

 

My ETF is on fire. 

[Boudrias]

Reading the GOOGL 2022 Annual Report. Fascinating stuff. Brin and Page control the company with 51% of the voting stock. R&D spend of $39.5 billion. Revenue has grown 54% over the past 3 years. Global tax paid of $71.3 billion. 

 

AVGO up almost 12% on Friday.  

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to stocks and I'm slowly developing a portfolio that's mainly "safe" through ETFs, and a couple of companies that I know very well and believe in (Buffet method). My question is really simple; the stock market is crashing slowly but surely, and it's a very weird time to start dabbling in all of this. Has anyone ever experienced this kind of market before and what would be some good advice for someone new like me to navigate in these uncertain times?

[Boudrias]

33 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Hello everyone, I'm fairly new to stocks and I'm slowly developing a portfolio that's mainly "safe" through ETFs, and a couple of companies that I know very well and believe in (Buffet method). My question is really simple; the stock market is crashing slowly but surely, and it's a very weird time to start dabbling in all of this. Has anyone ever experienced this kind of market before and what would be some good advice for someone new like me to navigate in these uncertain times?

I use a broad allocation sheet which keeps me from overweighting particular sectors. I pick the larger and best stocks in each sector. I follow a dividend model. ie if a stock doesn't pay me to hold their company then I likely don't buy it. Not a big fan of ETF's as measuring their performance is hard. That said it does diversify your risk. I measure performance by the cash flow generated by a stock. Hope and a prayer doesn't work. 

 

Every 7-8 years there are down turns. Over 50 years I have not seen the volitility that exists today very often. So many different models being used to invest money, the latest being AI. Top that with the amount of money available to influence markets. I simply plod along and buy stocks I want on weakness. Just bought TOU-T today. 

 

You can start with your ETF's and once comfortable start looking at individual stocks if you have the time. Always remember that no one really cares how you do other than yourself. Keep an eye on things. Know what you are paying out in trade fees and MER's. 

[luckyjack]

that's interesting, however there are no guarantees of profits when you buy stock. But I like gambling from time to time. I often play at shambala casino canada and I've won a few times. it is exciting and I don't need risking too much. There are many slot games on every taste.

Edited June 12, 2023 by luckyjack

[Boudrias]

17 minutes ago, luckyjack said:

that's interesting, however there are no guarantees of profits when you buy stock.

The valuation on stocks can go up and down based on many factors. The most common being earnings. Lots of factors influence earnings. No guarantee of profits but people invest in the stock market as a form of diversification from their earned income and as an alternative to interest income which has been very low for the past 10 - 15 years. Now that rates have come up the arithmetic becomes important. My rule of thumb is to take the 5 year bond yield and add 4.5% to that as the yardstick for the return I need to warrant market risk. 2023 my number is 7.5%. Most of my stocks are yielding + 5.0% on the dividends so the capital growth only has to gain 2.5% for me to hi my target. Obviously these are ballpark numbers but I do track them.  

[Boudrias]

GEI or Gibson Energy has joined TransCanada and Enbridge by buying $1.1 billion USD Buckeye Partners oil terminal and export facility in Texas. Joining a list of Canadian companies who cannot get support for investing in their own country.  

[bishopshodan]

RIVN.

 

Good week!

[Warhippy]

Have noticed out of nowhere that the GOP and certain media driven individuals no longer seem to be using the stock market as the end all be all of success metrics like they did for a specific 4 years.

 

Still a mixed bag for sure, a lot less volatile now but they don't mention it as being the metric of wealth and success that they did previously.

 

Personally, I am up year over year the last 4 years without fail but all is quiet on that front now.  Odd