elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 On 23/11/2015 19:10:28, J.R. said: Really? Which young, established, top pair D is Edmonton sending back to NYI? No kidding. People keep saying Edmonton but they aren't looking to offer Klefbolm or Nurse, so if they're offering Schultz then we might as well be able to to offer Sbisa. There might be a little bit of difference in that they could offer Eberle or another very good young forward along with that but the Isles don't get that defensive piece they want. We aren't likely to get away with Sbisa without offering Horvat, Virtanen, etc. and we don't want to do that (and it was rumoured to be a part of the too much they were asking on top of likely Tanev). On 23/11/2015 21:09:58, Ghostsof1915 said: If it's Tanev, or Hutton no go. I'd gladly give up Edler, Vey, and Jensen. I still want to know why we didn't go after Granberg? Clearly Benning didn't agree on Granberg since the Preds are behind us in the waiver order (and it's not that we have 50 contracts, we have 45 right now), and I'm not so sure the Isles would agree on the Edler package. 18 hours ago, J.R. said: Problem with the 'Hamonic' issue specifically, is that the Canucks needed to draft that guy ~4'ish years ago...and didn't. New management has a hell of a task ahead of them sorting that out... Getting Hamonic (or Barrie etc) would certainly help (though a long shot), even if it hurts a bit in the present. Waiting for guys we draft this year to become the top 4 we need now AND 5 years from now is just delaying the inevitable IMO and hurts us down the line. Where's Tyler Myers when you need him (Or Karlsson [or Carlson]!)? And of course, Hamonic was 53rd that draft, 12 spots after we took Yann Sauve. Man, imagine if we'd gotten another mid-first rounder and been able to draft all three. Roman Josi was there too, just ahead of our Sauve pick. Pretty good number of defencemen out of that draft, including Bartksowski in the 7th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 hour ago, elvis15 said: Where's Tyler Myers when you need him (Or Karlsson [or Carlson]!)? And of course, Hamonic was 53rd that draft, 12 spots after we took Yann Sauve. Man, imagine if we'd gotten another mid-first rounder and been able to draft all three. Roman Josi was there too, just ahead of our Sauve pick. Pretty good number of defencemen out of that draft, including Bartksowski in the 7th round. Ugggghhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 We spend about $22M on our D currently, and at a little more than $12M above current (albeit with a $9.1M 4th pairing). That would be something to behold. I know, wouldn't work, but we wouldn't have had to bring in Sbisa, and could have traded Myers for a top young forward/picks. With that defence we could have kept Lack over Miller and his $6M cap hit quite easily. It might mean cutting back on forwards with bigger contracts too, but throw in a couple depth defenceman, save $4M on Lack and take away the Sedins' $14M and we'd be left with about $34M to spend on the remaining 11 forwards. Actually, that's not that bad, since we currently spend just over $41M on our current group of forwards. Any LTI injury relief in there (Sutter's $3.3M on LTI right now for instance) and it's a lot closer. Maybe we wouldn't have picked up Vrbata, and more expensive bottom 6 contracts like Dorsett, Prust, or even Higgins and Burrows would be limited and replaced with not only our current young players but a few more assets we'd have from the Kesler trade (instead of Sbisa) and Myers. Swap out Higgins and Dorsett for Kenins and Gaunce... oh forget it, I'm going to go cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 3 hours ago, elvis15 said: No kidding. People keep saying Edmonton but they aren't looking to offer Klefbolm or Nurse, so if they're offering Schultz then we might as well be able to to offer Sbisa. There might be a little bit of difference in that they could offer Eberle or another very good young forward along with that but the Isles don't get that defensive piece they want. We aren't likely to get away with Sbisa without offering Horvat, Virtanen, etc. and we don't want to do that (and it was rumoured to be a part of the too much they were asking on top of likely Tanev). Clearly Benning didn't agree on Granberg since the Preds are behind us in the waiver order (and it's not that we have 50 contracts, we have 45 right now), and I'm not so sure the Isles would agree on the Edler package. Where's Tyler Myers when you need him (Or Karlsson [or Carlson]!)? And of course, Hamonic was 53rd that draft, 12 spots after we took Yann Sauve. Man, imagine if we'd gotten another mid-first rounder and been able to draft all three. Roman Josi was there too, just ahead of our Sauve pick. Pretty good number of defencemen out of that draft, including Bartksowski in the 7th round. I think it's even easier than that to behold. Just to show how maximizing low 1st-2nd round picks can make a difference....we could have Severson and Jenner instead of Mallet and Jensen. Imagine how different our whole organization would look. The dialectic would immediately change regarding our future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 9 minutes ago, theminister said: I think it's even easier than that to behold. Just to show how maximizing low 1st-2nd round picks can make a difference....we could have Severson and Jenner instead of Mallet and Jensen. Imagine how different our whole organization would look. The dialectic would immediately change regarding our future We wouldn't even have room for Severson apart from as a 7th D. Jenner sure would be nice though, and we'd have to have a transition plan for all those contracts after the ELCs coming into effect, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 minute ago, elvis15 said: We wouldn't even have room for Severson apart from as a 7th D. Jenner sure would be nice though, and we'd have to have a transition plan for all those contracts after the ELCs coming into effect, but... Eh? Severson would likely be a top 4 RHD on our team and a 3rd pairing at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 3 minutes ago, theminister said: Eh? Severson would likely be a top 4 RHD on our team and a 3rd pairing at worst. I mean with my above solution. He'd be behind Karlsson, Hamonic, and likely Tanev as well considering the 3rd pairing role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 1 minute ago, elvis15 said: I mean with my above solution. He'd be behind Karlsson, Hamonic, and likely Tanev as well considering the 3rd pairing role I'd move Tanev in about 1 second in that magical scenario.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Just now, elvis15 said: I mean with my above solution. He'd be behind Karlsson, Hamonic, and likely Tanev as well considering the 3rd pairing role Lol....ok...I wasn't commenting about rewriting our whole draft history. I just meant those two picks. My point was to illustrate the fine line between draft success and mediocrity. 1st round picks are always debatable but I think you make hay in that 25-60 range. That separates the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 For sure, we've had Gaunce and Shink starting to do well in that range, and that's where we got Kesler from basically as well, but there have been lots of not enough from those picks over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 4 hours ago, elvis15 said: For sure, we've had Gaunce and Shink starting to do well in that range, and that's where we got Kesler from basically as well, but there have been lots of not enough from those picks over the years. To be fair, that 2003 draft with Kesler was crazy good that that 25-60 range was probably more like 35-70 or later. Man that draft was good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 9 minutes ago, The Lock said: To be fair, that 2003 draft with Kesler was crazy good that that 25-60 range was probably more like 35-70 or later. Man that draft was good.... Greatest draft there ever was. The entire first round all played at least a game. Can't recall another time when that's ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 10 minutes ago, HC20.0 said: Greatest draft there ever was. The entire first round all played at least a game. Can't recall another time when that's ever happened. Huge Specimen doesn't count. That was an awful pick by the Rags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 4 minutes ago, theminister said: Huge Specimen doesn't count. That was an awful pick by the Rags. Still played all of 2 games, so every first round pick did play in the NHL. So my comment is still valid. Terrible pick by the Rangers though, I agree. What was Sather smoking when he made that choice. Only other blunder like that I recall is the Flames taking Jankowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 15 hours ago, HC20.0 said: Still played all of 2 games, so every first round pick did play in the NHL. So my comment is still valid. Terrible pick by the Rangers though, I agree. What was Sather smoking when he made that choice. Only other blunder like that I recall is the Flames taking Jankowski. McIlrath says hello. Sather strikes again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 On 25/11/2015, 09:10:48, elvis15 said: No kidding. People keep saying Edmonton but they aren't looking to offer Klefbolm or Nurse, so if they're offering Schultz then we might as well be able to to offer Sbisa. There might be a little bit of difference in that they could offer Eberle or another very good young forward along with that but the Isles don't get that defensive piece they want. We aren't likely to get away with Sbisa without offering Horvat, Virtanen, etc. and we don't want to do that (and it was rumoured to be a part of the too much they were asking on top of likely Tanev). Clearly Benning didn't agree on Granberg since the Preds are behind us in the waiver order (and it's not that we have 50 contracts, we have 45 right now), and I'm not so sure the Isles would agree on the Edler package. Where's Tyler Myers when you need him (Or Karlsson [or Carlson]!)? And of course, Hamonic was 53rd that draft, 12 spots after we took Yann Sauve. Man, imagine if we'd gotten another mid-first rounder and been able to draft all three. Roman Josi was there too, just ahead of our Sauve pick. Pretty good number of defencemen out of that draft, including Bartksowski in the 7th round. to be fair we never got to find out what sauve brought to the table. in his brief appearances, I thought he looked very promising. Shame how it turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 2 hours ago, stawns said: to be fair we never got to find out what sauve brought to the table. in his brief appearances, I thought he looked very promising. Shame how it turned out. The curse of drafting a D-man from the Q! But I had some concerns early in his first preseason yet saw how he might overcome them. It didn't look like he was going to carry over much in the way of offence, but I hoped he might be a reliable defensive guy who can start the rush and be a leader who stands up for his teammates. The accident was a factor even if I think it wasn't much of one. I just don't know that he was good enough to consider picking him again even if he didn't have some of the roadblocks he faced. Certainly I'd take Hamonic now in any event, but that time travel machine is still not working in my garage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 @NicholsOnHockey: Friedman: "I think Winnipeg has decided they're not trading Trouba for (Hamonic), so I think that gums it up (for #NHLJets)." #Isles lmao. Snow want's a Hamonic equivalent if not better (potential) for a guy that wants out? smh. And I think there will be a stupid team that actually does that. Isles should be getting a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 28 minutes ago, TheRussianRocket. said: Isles should be getting a loss. ...they probably will. Can't blame Snow for taking his time trying to minimize that loss though. He has no need to rush a deal and can always hope another team gets desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 2 minutes ago, J.R. said: ...they probably will. Can't blame Snow for taking his time trying to minimize that loss though. He has no need to rush a deal and can always hope another team gets desperate. Like Gillis and Luongo! (Okay... maybe that would be little too extreme of an example lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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