[PGT] Another loss...now 7-7-6

[Robongo]

7 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

AYea when the D has trouble making breakout passes, or gets hemmed in their own zone because they do not move the puck quick enough, that is a huge issue. Another factor is that this team is just too soft, no real intimidating guys whenever the goalie gets run. At least Sbisa tried to be physical this game. 

The funny part is that anyone not wearing their homer goggles could see the systematic dismantling of our once superb d core . Every single year since our fabulous 2011 year we have subtracted a significant piece from our back end. Any fan that was willing to point this out was flamed on here, but the fact that we have three top four defenseman, coupled with a bunch of 6-7 d man cannot be hidden any longer . Our defense is terrible , it was terrible last year but was kept a float by Tanev and Edler's unsustainable play. Hamhuis used to be able to anchor a pair but he has swifty declined every year since his hip check on Lucic.

I know this a board full of homers but i hope that after this swift reality has presented itself that people finally start thinking logically in regards to this team ..we have been hitting first round picks out of the park and another year of multiple firsts in a deep draft will set us up beautifully moving forward

 

 

 

[Toyotasfan]

Not to blame Higgins but the Canucks were on a roll before he was put in the line up.

[*Buzzsaw*]

9 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

Yea when the D has trouble making breakout passes, or gets hemmed in their own zone because they do not move the puck quick enough, that is a huge issue. 

Actually their problem lately has been they try to move the puck TOO fast... make a stupid pass and a giveaway...  the really bad giveaways lately have been from a defenseman (or forward) with lots of time to make a play. 

The problem is lack of mental concentration...  Brainf*rts.

[*Buzzsaw*]

4 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

Not to blame Higgins but the Canucks were on a roll before he was put in the line up.

This is horsepucky...  Higgins has been one of the more engaged and focused players.

[blackpluto96]

We have a lot of kids playing decent minutes where on most teams there would be less minutes given and less rookies dressed.  WD does overly rely on vets in the 3rd because he knows what he will get from the vets.  He knows Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Dorsette and likes are less likely to make mistakes and hope to build on that and generate offense. He is conservative, no question but I don't know many coaches that will play Grenier over Higgins in a 3rd where you are trailing by a goal. His primary mandate is to make the playoffs and then develop the kids while doing so. Developing rookies includes play them in sheltered situations and minutes. You can't have both unless you think we have a McDavid or Ekblad, which we don't.  Kids need to be brought along slowly in today's NHL. Missing Sutter definitely has a huge impact not having the option of sheltering Bo when he's struggling. I think WD is doing fine. He's no AV or Babcock but you get what you pay for.

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, Robongo said:

The funny part is that anyone not wearing their homer goggles could see the systematic dismantling of our once superb d core . Every single year since our fabulous 2011 year we have subtracted a significant piece from our back end.

What kind of googles are you wearing - which lead you to come up with a story like this.  The elaboration ought to be interesting.

[oldnews]

10 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

Not to blame Higgins but the Canucks were on a roll before he was put in the line up.

Not to blame Miller but they were on a roll before he ran his mouth.  See how easy that kind of thing is?

 

[Robongo]

9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

What kind of googles are you wearing - which lead you to come up with a story like this.  The elaboration ought to be interesting.

I know you are capable enough of figuring this out for yourself . I dont need to spell this out for you as you consistently condescendingly claim that everyone on this forum are all dimwits and with your advanced intellect you are far ahead of everyone else

we are going through the natural cycle of sports . Gillis realized that we needed a full on rebuild after our sweep vs the sharks in 2013 . The problem is is that the Aquillinis have been feilding offers for this team since then and know that a rebuild would hurt the valuation of which they would get for this team . It is the sole reason this team is trying to chug along and make the playoffs.

[DIBdaQUIB]

3 hours ago, coastal1 said:

I know what you mean. Give me the Oilers of the last 10 years, now that was entertainment, so much enthusiasm!

I'm guessing you  live in a black and white world.  Letting the kids we have now play instead of being stapled to the bench is hardly the Edmonton model.  I am comforted to know you find the current team entertaining. At least you are easy to please.

[oldnews]

9 minutes ago, Robongo said:

 

Nothing there resembling a response Robongo.  Just a strawman regarding 'everyone' being dimwits. 

 "Every single year since our fabulous 2011 year we have subtracted a significant piece from our back end."

I didn't see anything qualifying this.  Are you able to elaborate?

 

Btw - I've never heard a Gillis reference to the need for a 'full rebuild'.   Are you sure you're not just dressing up your own opinions in the mouths of people that didn't necessarily share them?

 

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2012_p&f2=5v5&f5=VAN&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

 

[Robongo]

9 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Nothing there resembling a response Robongo.  Just a strawman regarding 'everyone' being dimwits. 

 "Every single year since our fabulous 2011 year we have subtracted a significant piece from our back end."

I didn't see anything qualifying this.  Are you able to elaborate?

 

Hm since you are incapable of doing so yourself I guess im olbliged. Loss of Ehrhoff , loss of Salo, loss of Garrison... Hmm that seems to be three legit top 4 dmen. Ballard was miscalculated as a top 4 piece and even as a significant piece to replace ehrhoff..stanton was a solid transition defenseman, corrado (sparcely used) was as well. I know im repeating myself for your own satisfaction, as you are fully aware of the personell that we have lost in that time. Do you need me to wipe your behind as well? Im sure some "dimwit" that you were so quick to label on CDC would be so kind to wipe the drool off your face as well

[Robongo]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Nothing there resembling a response Robongo.  Just a strawman regarding 'everyone' being dimwits. 

 "Every single year since our fabulous 2011 year we have subtracted a significant piece from our back end."

I didn't see anything qualifying this.  Are you able to elaborate?

 

Btw - I've never heard a Gillis reference to the need for a 'full rebuild'.   Are you sure you're not just dressing up your own opinions in the mouths of people that didn't necessarily share them?

 

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2012_p&f2=5v5&f5=VAN&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

 

There are multiple sources out there saying that Gillis , after the San Jose sweep had mostly full autonomy and suggested a full rebuild where he was rebuffed and told there would be no such thing. just because they go against your narrative is not my fault . Its the same thing with advanced stats. You use them when they suit your narrative but when they prove that Sbisa and Bieksa are a liability they are no longer credible..

[Zerox]

Coach: 

-Does not know when to use time out/ Coaches challenge at times

-Overplay vets , playing not-to-lose mentality

- Does not know (staff) how to coach defense like AV used to do

- Ask a puck moving defenseman to play stay at home defense. Pairing Hutton & Bartkowski together, yet not much PP time seen between those 2.

 

Defense:

- Stay at home defenseman to make stretch pass = teaching a pig to fly

- when killing PK, they no longer shoot the puck at the glass. They always pick the middle of the ice.

- Some did not finish their checks, and just leaves the guy open.

 

...and plenty more problem.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, Robongo said:

Hm since you are incapable of doing so yourself I guess im olbliged. Loss of Ehrhoff , loss of Salo, loss of Garrison... Hmm that seems to be three legit too 4 dmen. Ballard was miscalculated as a top 4 piece and even as a significant piece to replace ehrhoff..stanton was a solid transition defenseman, corrado (sparcely used) was as well. I know im repeating myself for your own satisfaction, as you are fully aware of the personell that we have lost in that time. Do you need me to wipe your behind as well?

Ehrhoff subtracted himself - and has sucked since the day he left.

Salo is retired.

You missed Juice - who also would not be making this team any better were he still here.

Garrison wasn't around in 2011 - he was added and subtracted afterwards - and I doubt anyone in tank nation ever considered any blueline Garrison played on in Vancouver to be a "superb D core".

I guess I just missed whatever point it was you were trying to make - because it's certainly not clear.  Maybe you should wipe your own ass before offering to wipe others.

Do you believe that GMs MG and JB have been running a subtle tank hoping that no one (except of course you, with your homer glasses off) would notice?  

 

 

[CanucksJay]

Without any injuries, this team is a playoff team. Not a contender but still a team capable of making the playoffs and being bounced in the first round. 

With injuries to Vrbata, Prust, Sbisa and Sutter, this team is at best a . 500 club. There just isn't enough depth to cover these missing parts. When you have a forward lineup that consists of Baerstchi playing his first full season in the (NHL), a 20 year old Sophomore (Horvat) and the likes of Virtanen, McCann, Grenier and a fringe NHLer like Cracknell (who could easily be replaced by another rookie (Gaunce),  that's just way too many holes. 

On defence, we have a rookie logging huge minutes while our only physical D-man entered the season as our 4th best D-man (when he's realistically a 5D) is injured and as a result, our D coverage on spots 4-6 are absolute crap. 

 

There's no need to be angry about anything right now. I'd rather we just get through the year and hope our young guys learn as much as possible while battling hard every game. With a healthy lineup, I'm more frightened that we will have a redo of last year's deadline where we sat on our hands and didn't unload Matthias, Richardson for some picks while still getting knocked out in the first by a crappy Calgary team. 

I think with the injuries this year, it prevents management from any delusions about making aren't in the playoffs and forces their hands to be sellers at the deadline. 

 

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, Robongo said:

There are multiple sources out there saying that Gillis , after the San Jose sweep had mostly full autonomy and suggested a full rebuild where he was rebuffed and told there would be no such thing. just because they go against your narrative is not my fault . Its the same thing with advanced stats. You use them when they suit your narrative but when they prove that Sbisa and Bieksa are a liability they are no longer credible..

Instead of making allusions to multiple references, why don't you just post them?

Same with your other claim - I've never maintained that advanced stats are no longer credible.  You'll fail attempting to quote me saying anything resembling that.   What I've shown are that Sbisa's actual underlying numbers are nowhere near as bad as some people have suggested (making ridiculous claims that he's among a handful of the worst defensemen in the NHL. 

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

 

I think Baertshi has needed sheltering in general, hasn't really been very impressive in sheltered minutes - and this type of team - on the road - only plays to his weaknesses even more imo.

You mean his sheltered minutes playing on the 4th line with Cracknell and Dorsett...Did you watch the game...?..He was definitely making an impact...Probably one of his better games on the roadtrip.

[Robongo]

15 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Ehrhoff subtracted himself - and has sucked since the day he left.

Salo is retired.

You missed Juice - who also would not be making this team any better were he still here.

Garrison wasn't around in 2011 - he was added and subtracted afterwards - and I doubt anyone in tank nation ever considered any blueline Garrison played on in Vancouver to be a "superb D core".

I guess I just missed whatever point it was you were trying to make - because it's certainly not clear.  Maybe you should wipe your own ass before offering to wipe others.

Do you believe that GMs MG and JB have been running a subtle tank hoping that no one (except of course you, with your homer glasses off) would notice?  

 

 

Actually oldnews, since you love advanced stats so much, you should have seen how Ehrhoff in his first few years kept Tyler Myers afloat But again, since youre a stat nerd that only uses them to prove your point , you need to be reminded. myers, ehrhoffs only partner , was only kept afloat because of Ehrhoff. His corsi without ehrhoff was absolutely abysmal as were his scoring chances for and against. To suggest that Ehrhoff fell off as soon as he signed with the Sabres would be absolutely disingenous and i know uou know that . Again this comes down to using advanced stats only when they suit your narrative. Also, Hamhuis-garrison was one of the absolute top shutdown pairings in the entire league in 2012-2013, but i guess that never happened because it goes against your narrative .Furthermore, you were one of Kb3s biggest apologists last year so its only fitting that now he is considered only minor subtraction in retrospect.

 

and no i dont believe JB has been running a subtle tank job that no one would have noticed. There are multiple Sedin interviews throughout the summer that confirm that they view this year as a write off and nothing more than a transition year where we assimilate the young players. They were obviously not the only ones with this view as Ray Ferraro and a multitude of intelligent hockey insiders claimed the Canucks had their foot on both sides of the fence in terms of rebuild and contending

there has been ample evidence in the last few years that the owners of this team have been looking to sell. anyone willing to put two and two together would be able to deduce that that is the sole reason thst this team is stubbornly trying to remain "competive". And i put quotations around competive because any one without their head up their ass knows that is a farce and that they are not competive at all in the Stanley Cup Tournament 

[oldnews]

18 minutes ago, Robongo said:

Actually oldnews, since you love advanced stats so much, you should have seen how Ehrhoff in his first few years kept Tyler Myers afloat But again, since youre a stat nerd that only uses them to prove your point , you need to be reminded. myers, ehrhoffs only partner , was only kept afloat because of Ehrhoff. His corsi without ehrhoff was absolutely abysmal as were his scoring chances for and against. To suggest that Ehrhoff fell off as soon as he signed with the Sabres would be absolutely disingenous and i know uou know that . Again this comes down to using advanced stats only when they suit your narrative. Also, Hamhuis-garrison was one of the absolute top shutdown pairings in the entire league in 2012-2013, but i guess that never happened because it goes against your narrative .Furthermore, you were one of Kb3s biggest apologists last year so its only fitting that now he is considered only minor subtraction in retrospect.

 

and no i dont believe JB has been running a subtle tank job that no one would have noticed. There are multiple Sedin interviews throughout the summer that confirm that they view this year as a right off and nothing more than a transition year where we assimilate the young players. They were obviously not the only ones with this view as Ray Ferraro and a multitude of intelligent hockey insiders claimed the Canucks had their foot on both sides of the fence in terms of rebuild and contending.

You're rewriting a story without any context bongo.

Cap space.  Ehrhoff and his eventually bought out 40 million deal (because he's nothing resembling the player the Sedins made of him) - or Bieksa.  That was the option - one or the other - you couldn't have/afford both.  So what exactly is your point?  That's not a systematic dismantling - it's simple reality - and it doesn't fit your oversimplified narrative.

Garrison or Vrbata?  You don't have the cap to sign Vrbata unless you deal Garrison - nevermind that Garrison wasn't part of the 2011 superb core you were alluding to being dismantled.  Is Vrbata part of the subtle tank?  Your point just isn't very clear.  I realize you think next to nothing of Sbisa, but JB doesn't share your take, so when he added Sbisa to the blueline, I doubt he considered it a significant setback.  Likewise with replacing Bieksa with Bartkowski (btw, I was in complete support of the decision to deal Bieksa for a 2nd - if you read the actual trade thread as opposed to attempting to put straw words in my mouth, you'll find that).

I love Bieksa, but was never under the impression that he hadn't declined.  I not only suggested that it was time to deal him, but also that he just hadn't looked himself for quite some time, particularly his mobility after a couple serious cuts to his legs..  I'm not game to pile on the compulsive hate train around here, but again, feel free to quote me being his biggest 'apologist'. 

The blueline has not been "dismantled".   Most people here - especially the tank crew ironically - are calling for it - wanting Hamhuis and Edler shipped.  The fact that 3 of the top 4 remain here doesn't exactly make your claim.

[hearditall]

47 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Without any injuries, this team is a playoff team. Not a contender but still a team capable of making the playoffs and being bounced in the first round. 

With injuries to Vrbata, Prust, Sbisa and Sutter, this team is at best a . 500 club. There just isn't enough depth to cover these missing parts. When you have a forward lineup that consists of Baerstchi playing his first full season in the (NHL), a 20 year old Sophomore (Horvat) and the likes of Virtanen, McCann, Grenier and a fringe NHLer like Cracknell (who could easily be replaced by another rookie (Gaunce),  that's just way too many holes. 

On defence, we have a rookie logging huge minutes while our only physical D-man entered the season as our 4th best D-man (when he's realistically a 5D) is injured and as a result, our D coverage on spots 4-6 are absolute crap. 

 

There's no need to be angry about anything right now. I'd rather we just get through the year and hope our young guys learn as much as possible while battling hard every game. With a healthy lineup, I'm more frightened that we will have a redo of last year's deadline where we sat on our hands and didn't unload Matthias, Richardson for some picks while still getting knocked out in the first by a crappy Calgary team. 

I think with the injuries this year, it prevents management from any delusions about making aren't in the playoffs and forces their hands to be sellers at the deadline. 

 

TY...