(Speculation) Freidman "I wouldn't be surprised if The Canucks threw some serious money at Stamkos"

[Aircool]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

See the thing is, we're speaking of contracts at different points in league history.  We're speaking of players with different teams, managers and resumes.  When Karlsson signed his contract he had just scored 78 points.  In 2011/2012 that him one of the top 3 paid D men between him Doughty Suter (Weber of course)

Hedman is currently at the same point in his career as Edler was when we were proclaiming him the next coming of Lidstrom.  Yes, he's gonna get paid about $6.75 million MAYBE $7.5 tops.  And I am not downplaying where his skill set is trending at all.  But he will get paid comparable amounts based on his stats as Doughty/Karlsson are currently making, more likely he will get overpaid at term to keep him in Tampa.

Hedmans comparable is current Karlsson dollars, he'll most likely get overpaid.  Stamkos is going to get $9.75 million+ from anywhere in the league including Tampa unless Yzerman signs him for 5 years or less or a sweet modified NTC allowing him freedom to move in his prime.  Those based on current financial and contractual history for comparable players in the NHL are almost indisputable.  But have been disputed, and again I cannot stress this enough; disputed based off of posts from HF and Tampa forums.

Some valid points in here, I just cut down the quote to shorten this post. Obviously Hedman isn't Karlsson in point production but its seems like a lock for him to put up what would have been 3 consecutive seasons of 50+ points if it weren't for an injury last year. He is clearly a very talented scorer, and also has the size to be physical... but I won't pretend to know if he is or isn't.

The thing about the Edler comparison is that Edler has never put up a single 50 point season, so Hedman probably has a higher ceiling than Edler offensively I would say. Not to mention Edler's best offensive seasons came during a three year period in which the Canucks were at their best and won 2 President's trophies. During this time the Canucks also had one of the best Powerplays in the league that Edler did play on. Even with all of this considered, he has still never broken 50 points. 

Its all really a matter of semantics, do you think Hedman will be overpaid or do you think that Karlsson and Doughty are underpaid. It's probably a bit of both, but he will get more than 7 Million, that much is all but a foregone conclusion.

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

Only is Warhippy's uninformed, unknowledgeable hockey mind is Stamkos worth 10+ million and Hedman worth less than 7.0 million.

@Warhippy

  Warhippy said:

You made the above post a few days back,

I pointed out to you after you made the above post that Stamkos and Hedman were back to back picks who came into the league only 1 year apart. Stamkos didn't really wait around until Tampa obtained Hedman instead of asking for a trade.

You were completely clueless on when Tampa obtained Hedman who is Tampa's best player and the best player on the ice from either team on most nights Tampa plays

What an uninformed, unknowledgeable and ignorant statement.  It's not only apparent you are completely unknowledgeable about Tampa but you are also unknowledgeable about Doughty and Karlsson. Not only that but you are a lazy poster who won't even take time to research what you don't know before making these types of dumb statements. 

Karlsson makes 6.5 and Doughty makes 7.0, both are signed for 4 years including this one. The fact you think Hedman is going to sign for 7.0 mill or less shows your lack of hockey knowledge.

In Yzerman's wildest dreams he wouldn't think about getting Hedman at that price. 

Why has Yzerman offered him 8.5 mill?  

All I gotta say is as long as no one ever compares me to an uninformed, unknowledgeable, watercooler hockey talk guy named Warhippy I'm good.

I'm sorry but I gotta come back to this jewel of a post again.

Lol, Hedman not getting more than Karlsson and Doughty, can't get over that statement. Hedman not getting more than 6.5 mill Karlsson makes or 7.0 million Doughty makes, lmao.

Dude you of all people shouldn't be bringing up Desi in order to mock other posters or comment on other posters credibility. 

 

 

Yzarman low balled him. Stamkos is easily worth over 10 on the open market. Kane and Teows got 10 but from the team that drafted them. On the open market , they get more. 

Remember every who said that ovechkin was done ? Now ppl think stamkos is done ? Ha 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

I bet the owners will be giddy for Stamkos too. Once we have Stam, all we need is another big money forward after the Sedins are done. The rest of our team isn't tied up in bad contracts and we have some young pieces like Markstrom and Demko, Hutton, Bea, Horvat et al

Step up Aqua man. 

[WHL rocks]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Only is Warhippy's uninformed, unknowledgeable hockey mind is Stamkos worth 10+ million and Hedman worth less than 7.0 million.

@Warhippy

  Warhippy said:

You made the above post a few days back,

I pointed out to you after you made the above post that Stamkos and Hedman were back to back picks who came into the league only 1 year apart. Stamkos didn't really wait around until Tampa obtained Hedman instead of asking for a trade. Stamkos was a raw 1st year journeyman playing on a still bad team with ownership issues.  He only had 1 job, score.  He did, and he scored 45 goals, 91 points.  As a player on an ELC he had literally no options and had a great thing in Tampa

What does this have to do with you originally claiming Stamkos waited around for Hedman instead of asking for a trade. out of Tampa. Dancing against your owns statements? lol

You were completely clueless on when Tampa obtained Hedman who is Tampa's best player and the best player on the ice from either team on most nights Tampa plays.  You call me clueless about when they drafted Hedman yet I never mentioned once when or how they obtained Hedman, only that they had him.  Pick your arguments better because the fact reamins, they WERE bad bad bad, they had to be to obtain Hedman and Drouin yet still managed to go deep in to the playoffs in alternating years

 Why would Stamkos ask for a trade in his rookie season?  

What an uninformed, unknowledgeable and ignorant statement.  It's not only apparent you are completely unknowledgeable about Tampa but you are also unknowledgeable about Doughty and Karlsson. Not only that but you are a lazy poster who won't even take time to research what you don't know before making these types of dumb statements. You claim I am an ignorant unknowledgable poster yet I backed up EVERYTHING I posted with facts from credible experts and stats, and you...fell back to you Hockey Forums link.  Think on that.  Speaking of dumb statements...

Karlsson makes 6.5 and Doughty makes 7.0, both are signed for 4 years including this one. The fact you think Hedman is going to sign for 7.0 mill or less shows your lack of hockey knowledge. Karlsson makes what?  Doughty makes what?  You speak of a lack of hockey knowledge, but their teams were smart enough to lock them up LONG term at decent contracts, remind me again how much they're going to make being multiple Norris nominees, a 2 time Norris winner and a 2 time cup and 1 time olympic mens champion.  If those contracts were negotiated now, this year they'd be making closer to $10 million per and you cannot credibly argue that, period.  And if you want to claim Hedman is worth as much as Doughty or KArlsson well, that pit you have dug just gets deeper and deeper right?

What a joke of a response. In response to me asking what Hedman would get if Yzerman gave Stammer 10 you responded by saying the following.

YOU originally said no way Hedman gets more than Doughty or Karlsson,

This is your quote"

Quote

As well while Hedman MIGHT be a solid player he's not getting more money than Doughty Subban or Karlsson no matter what you believe.

They are both signed for 4 seasons and neither makes more than 7 mill. 

What are you saying now, you meant their next contracts in 4 years would be more than Hedman contract? lol, Or you want to re negotiate their contracts this year and give them 10 mill so Warhippy looks like he knows what he's talking about? Are you serious dude? Suban is signed thru the 2021-22 season. Are you seriously trying to convince someone that you meant what Suban will get in 7 or 8 years from now? 

 what kinda of joke are you playing on your self with this idiotic response to an obvious mistake of a post by you. Because the jokes on you when you make yourself look like a complete tool with this kinda dancing around your own statements. 

 

In Yzerman's wildest dreams he wouldn't think about getting Hedman at that price. So you think Yzerman is going to lowball Hedman then?  Or is he going to grossly overpay him?

Why has Yzerman offered him 8.5 mill?  It is called haggling or an opening offer, it is part of the so called bargaining process, he offers low, Stammers' agent offers high they meet in the middle.  I'll bet your tragic account that Stammer gets signed for no less than $9.75 ANYWHERE in the NHL

Another thoughtless statement. 8.5 mill in Tampa =  around10 million in 27 other cities. Why on earth would Stamkos leave Tampa to sign for less take home money? If infact money is the issue.

All I gotta say is as long as no one ever compares me to an uninformed, unknowledgeable, watercooler hockey talk guy named Warhippy I'm good.Cupcake, you'd be lucky to be comapred to frigging Desiboy with the nonsense youve spewed and that's an actual compliment

lol

I'm sorry but I gotta come back to this jewel of a post again.

Lol, Hedman not getting more than Karlsson and Doughty, can't get over that statement. Hedman not getting more than 6.5 mill Karlsson makes or 7.0 million Doughty makes, lmao.I happily stand by what I stated.  Come back when Doughty and Karlsson negotiate their next contracts, let me know what they're gonna make.  When Hedman has half the resume those two do we'll have a ball park.  But then you also have to factor int he time Doughty missed pouting to get the contract done and of course the fact that no other Dman in the league has scored at the pace Karlsson has not named Lidstrom since the 80's.  So again, come on back after their next contracts or after we find out what hedman is worth

Dude you of all people shouldn't be bringing up Desi in order to mock other posters or comment on other posters credibility. 

Finally and this is important, I don't need to compare you to desi in order to mock you.  Your pists do that well enough.

Or..should I link some gem of wisdom from Hockey Forums for you to find that credible?

 

 Dude I"m done with you on this subject. Honestly I'm no onger interested in discussing this topic with you for a number of reasons. 

Now you're starting to argue against your own statements to prove who knows what. Kinda embarrassed for you at this point. 

Good day, see you around. 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

On 19/01/2016 at 3:39 PM, Warhippy said:

Anything over $8.8 million handcuffs this team.

 

Our strengths currently are at center, our needs pressingly in order are

 

• PMD RH and LH
• Crease clearing monster that can skate D
• Solid offense first RW/LW
• 2 way Lw/RW

We are coaching the offense out of our players in order to make them more defensively responsible.  We are needing D of both types in the worst way.  Stammer would be a HUGE draw for sure, but we've more pressing needs than another Sundin type contract regardless of how attractive it may seem

??? What is all this ?

This is not how the nhl works. 

8.8 million is not even close. It has to be over 10.5. That is where you start. It will be over 10.5. 

[Warhippy]

29 minutes ago, Aircool said:

Some valid points in here, I just cut down the quote to shorten this post. Obviously Hedman isn't Karlsson in point production but its seems like a lock for him to put up what would have been 3 consecutive seasons of 50+ points if it weren't for an injury last year. He is clearly a very talented scorer, and also has the size to be physical... but I won't pretend to know if he is or isn't.

The thing about the Edler comparison is that Edler has never put up a single 50 point season, so Hedman probably has a higher ceiling than Edler offensively I would say. Not to mention Edler's best offensive seasons came during a three year period in which the Canucks were at their best and won 2 President's trophies. During this time the Canucks also had one of the best Powerplays in the league that Edler did play on. Even with all of this considered, he has still never broken 50 points. 

Its all really a matter of semantics, do you think Hedman will be overpaid or do you think that Karlsson and Doughty are underpaid. It's probably a bit of both, but he will get more than 7 Million, that much is all but a foregone conclusion.

 

I am not entirely comparing him TO Edler but comparing his production to the time where we were claiming Edler the next coming of Lidstrom.  Multiple 40+ point season, 30+ point seasons etc and those big crushing hits.  We were pretty big on him, Hedman is trending the same way and rightly so.  He's going to get paid no doubt.

 

I think that; as per your closing statement, both are correct.  Doughty and Karlsson are grossly underpaid, and I think that while Hedman is worth some $$ in his career, that he'll get overpaid based on his current production banking on his "potential"  I think he is currently in line for a Karlsson or Doughty contract at length, but not much more than that; even though he WILL get paid more.

 

That being said, Stamkos is a premier first line center.  If we go back 5 years, every single year since about 2011, 1st line centers in this league have been getting paid record contracts.  Staal, Crosby/Malkin,  Toews.  Kopitar, Giroux, Getzlaf and on and on, In fact the only 1st line centers in the league I can genuinely think of under decent contracts are Hank Sedin and Tavares.

 

Stamkos is going to get a massive dollar amount, it is historically accurate and would fly in the face of the entire leagues contractual history since the 2005 lockout if he got less than $10 million.  Yzerman low balled him, Stammers agent counters back they meet in the middle.  If we say Yzerman offered $8.75, Stammers camp countered with $12.5 they meet in the middle at $10 million as a middle point.

 

That's just how the business works.  It would shock me so much if he took less than $9 million I'd take WHL off of my ignore list and apologize in fact

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

??? What is all this ?

This is not how the nhl works. 

8.8 million is not even close. It has to be over 10.5. That is where you start. It will be over 10.5. 

I am saying in context of our team $8.8 million is what I'd feel comfortable offering this year based on our current cap.  Should we manage to lose Milller/Prust/Burrows and their respective caps that number climbs.

 

But knowing our need for D men, our need to re-sign our RFA's plus another depth top 6 once Vrbata is gone; I am not sure we can capably offer more than that this year in our economic climate on this team with the cap possibly going down.  We DO have those needs without question; and should we clear that up I'd be happy to see Stamkos offered $9.75 to $10.5 million per year as his age and production as a 1st line center dictate.  

 

But some dominos would have to fall first

[MaxVerstappen33]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I am not entirely comparing him TO Edler but comparing his production to the time where we were claiming Edler the next coming of Lidstrom.  Multiple 40+ point season, 30+ point seasons etc and those big crushing hits.  We were pretty big on him, Hedman is trending the same way and rightly so.  He's going to get paid no doubt.

 

I think that; as per your closing statement, both are correct.  Doughty and Karlsson are grossly underpaid, and I think that while Hedman is worth some $$ in his career, that he'll get overpaid based on his current production banking on his "potential"  I think he is currently in line for a Karlsson or Doughty contract at length, but not much more than that; even though he WILL get paid more.

 

That being said, Stamkos is a premier first line center.  If we go back 5 years, every single year since about 2011, 1st line centers in this league have been getting paid record contracts.  Staal, Crosby/Malkin,  Toews.  Kopitar, Giroux, Getzlaf and on and on, In fact the only 1st line centers in the league I can genuinely think of under decent contracts are Hank Sedin and Tavares.

 

Stamkos is going to get a massive dollar amount, it is historically accurate and would fly in the face of the entire leagues contractual history since the 2005 lockout if he got less than $10 million.  Yzerman low balled him, Stammers agent counters back they meet in the middle.  If we say Yzerman offered $8.75, Stammers camp countered with $12.5 they meet in the middle at $10 million as a middle point.

 

That's just how the business works.  It would shock me so much if he took less than $9 million I'd take WHL off of my ignore list and apologize in fact

Yzermans rumored offer was an insult. And it was in the 8.5 range.

Its all shaping up to be a huge deal. This is a year when raw scoring is trending with Dallas and Washington leading the way.

I just wonder which teams will have the money to compete with Van or Tor's bids. Is there a team that is not rebuilding that can afford to approach the 20% limit ?

[WHL rocks]

28 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

??? What is all this ?

This is not how the nhl works. 

8.8 million is not even close. It has to be over 10.5. That is where you start. It will be over 10.5. 

Yeah if he goes on open market Stamkos will get 10.5 maybe more if he strictly chases the money. 

Owners and GMs fall over each other in out bidding UFAs on July 1st. Stamkos will have lineups outside his agent's office.

Parise and Suter signed for 98 mill each on heavily front loaded contracts. Ridiculous money especially for Parise. Minny thought they were the biggest winners after those signings. Now they look more like the biggest losers.

Brad Richards got a heavily front loaded 60 mill contracts from NYR. After 3 years and collecting 30 million he was bought out. The list goes on and on.

Biggest mistakes in the NHL are made on July 1st. Some team will overpay Stamkos, I hope it's not the Canucks. It could take upto 12 mill to get him interested.

Because ot Florida tax laws Stamkos would take home the same if he got 8.5 mill in Tampa or 10 mill in most other cities. So if Yzerman ups the offer to 9 mill which he surely will it's like Stamkos making 10.5+ mill in Canada. 

 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

18 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I am saying in context of our team $8.8 million is what I'd feel comfortable offering this year based on our current cap.  Should we manage to lose Milller/Prust/Burrows and their respective caps that number climbs.

 

But knowing our need for D men, our need to re-sign our RFA's plus another depth top 6 once Vrbata is gone; I am not sure we can capably offer more than that this year in our economic climate on this team with the cap possibly going down.  We DO have those needs without question; and should we clear that up I'd be happy to see Stamkos offered $9.75 to $10.5 million per year as his age and production as a 1st line center dictate.  

 

But some dominos would have to fall first

I understand that. But if you think we have problems, look around the league. Our problems are very average. Or prospect pool isn't great but its not the worst. Thatcher Demko is tearing it up.

What is even  the worst contract on our team now ? Miller I guess. We don't have contract issues.

Its not a hard decision to throw big money at guys like Stamkos. Unlike the Bufuglyns, the Keslers ect.

We could even run with Markstrom and Demko in a couple years. Thats cheap goal tending

[MaxVerstappen33]

1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

Yeah if he goes on open market Stamkos will get 10.5 maybe more if he strictly chases the money. 

Owners and GMs fall over each other in out bidding UFAs on July 1st. Stamkos will have lineups outside his agent's office.

Parise and Suter signed for 98 mill each on heavily front loaded contracts. Ridiculous money especially for Parise. Minny thought they were the biggest winners after those signings. Now they look more like the biggest losers.

Brad Richards got a heavily front loaded 60 mill contracts from NYR. After 3 years and collecting 30 million he was bought out. The list goes on and on.

Biggest mistakes in the NHL are made on July 1st. Some team will overpay Stamkos, I hope it's not the Canucks. It could take upto 12 mill to get him interested.

Because ot Florida tax laws Stamkos would take home the same if he got 8.5 mill in Tampa or 10 mill in most other cities. So if Yzerman ups the offer to 9 mill which he surely will it's like Stamkos making 10.5+ mill in Canada. 

 

 

Parise , Suter and Richards were all at different points in their careers. They were signing their last contract.  Stamkos is a unique situation. He's not signing his last contract.

The Teows, Kane, Ovechkin, Crosby's are almost priceless. Stamkos is right there with them. Any one of these players could get 10 to 12 million in free agency. But is it really an over-payment ? I don't think it is.

 

[Ryan Strome]

20 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

I understand that. But if you think we have problems, look around the league. Our problems are very average. Or prospect pool isn't great but its not the worst. Thatcher Demko is tearing it up.

What is even  the worst contract on our team now ? Miller I guess. We don't have contract issues.

Its not a hard decision to throw big money at guys like Stamkos. Unlike the Bufuglyns, the Keslers ect.

We could even run with Markstrom and Demko in a couple years. Thats cheap goal tending

 

21 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Yeah if he goes on open market Stamkos will get 10.5 maybe more if he strictly chases the money. 

Owners and GMs fall over each other in out bidding UFAs on July 1st. Stamkos will have lineups outside his agent's office.

Parise and Suter signed for 98 mill each on heavily front loaded contracts. Ridiculous money especially for Parise. Minny thought they were the biggest winners after those signings. Now they look more like the biggest losers.

Brad Richards got a heavily front loaded 60 mill contracts from NYR. After 3 years and collecting 30 million he was bought out. The list goes on and on.

Biggest mistakes in the NHL are made on July 1st. Some team will overpay Stamkos, I hope it's not the Canucks. It could take upto 12 mill to get him interested.

Because ot Florida tax laws Stamkos would take home the same if he got 8.5 mill in Tampa or 10 mill in most other cities. So if Yzerman ups the offer to 9 mill which he surely will it's like Stamkos making 10.5+ mill in Canada. 

 

 

You are forgetting how much more money Stammer can make off endorsements in a city like Toronto. He won't get that in Tampa or many other cities. So big money, big endorsement money and getting to return home and captain the biggest market in hockey.

Edit, sorry clarkson Im not really sure why your post was quoted. Stupid format!

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

Parise , Suter and Richards were all at different points in their careers. They were signing their last contract.  Stamkos is a unique situation. He's not signing his last contract.

The Teows, Kane, Ovechkin, Crosby's are almost priceless. Stamkos is right there with them. Any one of these players could get 10 to 12 million in free agency. But is it really an over-payment ? I don't think it is.

 

Because he doesn't cost us assets, should that factor into his contract, so we can offer him more?

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Because he doesn't cost us assets, should that factor into his contract, so we can offer him more?

He is unique cause he is still fairly young, he is a scoring machine and one of if not the best sniper in the game and he will be testing free agency. Toews, Kane, Ovi, Crosby all re-signed with the teams that drafted them, Stammer will be getting offers from a bunch of teams.

Possible teams in my opinion are, Tampa, Toronto, Buffalo, Nyr, Vancouver and that's just the obvious I'm sure it's possible non expected teams jump in Montreal, Boston, Florida, who knows..

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

He is unique cause he is still fairly young, he is a scoring machine and one of if not the best sniper in the game and he will be testing free agency. Toews, Kane, Ovi, Crosby all re-signed with the teams that drafted them, Stammer will be getting offers from a bunch of teams.

Possible teams in my opinion are, Tampa, Toronto, Buffalo, Nyr, Vancouver and that's just the obvious I'm sure it's possible non expected teams jump in Montreal, Boston, Florida, who knows..

Is there a limit on how high we should go?

[MaxVerstappen33]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Because he doesn't cost us assets, should that factor into his contract, so we can offer him more?

Yeah  cap space is worth less then assets.

It would be better for Benning to just blow some cap dollars on a player like Stamkos now rather then wait till everything else is accounted for. Because what do you do if you get everything figured out first and then there is a bad crop of free agents for a year or 2 ? What you do is sign players like Dave Bolland or David Clarkson. That is real waste.

[WHL rocks]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

You are forgetting how much more money Stammer can make off endorsements in a city like Toronto. He won't get that in Tampa or many other cities. So big money, big endorsement money and getting to return home and captain the biggest market in hockey.

Edit, sorry clarkson Im not really sure why your post was quoted. Stupid format!

Yeah I think we've talked about that earlier in this thread. I'm not sure which panel. maybe it was HNIC, but I've heard numbers like 3 or 4 mill per year in endorsements would be possible if he signed in TO. 

I think it was @RonMexico who brought up the point that maybe it's not all about money, maybe Stamkos wants to leave Tampa for other reasons. I kinda dismissed it at the moment because we haven't heard that from a legit source but have given it some more thought since. 

We know Stamkos isn't happy with Cooper playing him at RW. He prefers C. It could also be that since Stamkos' goals and points are so low maybe he wants to play on a team where he thinks he'll score more goals.

So money may not be the only reason for him wanting to leave. Toronto or MTL seem to be realistic destinations. MTL will be closer to contending with a healthy Price and Stamkos. TO won't be contending for a very long time and who knows if Stammer wants to go thru that. 

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Is there a limit on how high we should go?

I would be fine with jb going up to 11 million. Preferably 10million.

[Alflives]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

I would be fine with jb going up to 11 million. Preferably 10million.

What might it take to land him though?  

[Ryan Strome]

3 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Yeah I think we've talked about that earlier in this thread. I'm not sure which panel. maybe it was HNIC, but I've heard numbers like 3 or 4 mill per year in endorsements would be possible if he signed in TO. 

I think it was @RonMexico who brought up the point that maybe it's not all about money, maybe Stamkos wants to leave Tampa for other reasons. I kinda dismissed it at the moment because we haven't heard that from a legit source but have given it some more thought since. 

We know Stamkos isn't happy with Cooper playing him at RW. He prefers C. It could also be that since Stamkos' goals and points are so low maybe he wants to play on a team where he thinks he'll score more goals.

So money may not be the only reason for him wanting to leave. Toronto or MTL seem to be realistic destinations. MTL will be closer to contending with a healthy Price and Stamkos. TO won't be contending for a very long time and who knows if Stammer wants to go thru that. 

 

 

I think it will be Toronto if not Toronto then Montreal. I really hope it's Vancouver but realistically playing in the East is so much easier for players.