Can We Start Cutting Vey A Little Slack?

[alfstonker]

On 31 January 2016 at 2:23 AM, Lancaster said:

Linden Vey just never seemed like a player that would be part of the Canucks long-term plans.... nor is he reinforcement for the short-term. 

Sure, a 2nd rounder doesn't automatically means they will be a legit player, but considering they could have kept someone like Mike Santorelli, a player who is better than Vey in almost every aspect for a very cheap contract and without giving up any picks.... it's just a poor decision on Benning's part. 

I don't agree with any of that. Firstly Vey is just 24 and playing in only his 2nd full season in the NHL. In the 6 years in between through injury and inconsistency Santorelli has been a patchy player. In 2 years who knows how effective a player Vey will be for us, he is certainly looking good out there now and if he was our own prospect we would be all over him.

As for long term plans well he looks as much in our long term plans as most of the team just now so I don't know where you get your crystal ball predictions from.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Vey definitely fixed his game down in Utica.  He's stronger on the puck, going to the net, winning faceoffs, none of which he did consistently last year. I'd be interested to know how much Green had to do with that.  Hard to say what the future holds for him given our forward depth.  But his versatility and right shot are pluses.  Worst case scenario might be 13th forward and best 3C with occasional stints at RW and 2nd unit PP, as we're seeing right now.  If he can learn to kill penalties that would make him even harder to keep out of the lineup.  Anyway, he's an NHL player, which was more than we could say in October.

[Lancaster]

14 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I don't agree with any of that. Firstly Vey is just 24 and playing in only his 2nd full season in the NHL. In the 6 years in between through injury and inconsistency Santorelli has been a patchy player. In 2 years who knows how effective a player Vey will be for us, he is certainly looking good out there now and if he was our own prospect we would be all over him.

As for long term plans well he looks as much in our long term plans as most of the team just now so I don't know where you get your crystal ball predictions from.

If Vey seemed like a sure-shot top-6 NHLer, the Kings would have obviously kept him around.  Unfortunately, the Kings probably knew that he's skilled, he doesn't really excel in any one part of the game.  Is he great a faceoffs?  Nope.  A top-tier shot?  Nope.  Elite vision and passing skills?  Not really.  Strong skating + stickhandling skill?  Doesn't excel either.  Not to say he's a bum, but there are tons of players with similar skill sets..... very close, but just not quite there.

Santorelli played very inconsistent earlier in his career, but his time in Vancouver changed his outlook.  He realized that he can't just hope to be a top-6 player, that he has to do whatever it takes, beyond his comfort level to stay in the NHL.  Thus he really worked on his faceoffs, played a gritter style, and more than willing to be placed anyway in the lineup to play (he was a spare defenseman under Torts). 

As for whether or not we'd all be over Linden Vey if he was a Canucks draft..... highly doubt it.  Schroeder and Jensen were first-rounds with seemingly higher skill sets and physical attributes (hence them being drafted in the first round).... yet by the time they reach 21-22, lots of people on CDC were already writing them off and calling them busts.  I can't imagine any prospects given any leeway.... save for Kassian and apparently your love for Vey. 

As for Vey's supposedly role in the rebuild... not sure where you got your rose-coloured goggles from. 

[kingofsurrey]

Linden Vey is an asset that is appreciating.   We need to hold on to appreciating assets ( players ).

Burrows and Vrbata  are declining.  Hansen is at his peak.  (  move assets at their peak or declining ) 

Its nothing personal, just a business. 

 

 

[Caknuckle Puck]

Whats that Vey haters? you like him now? gee didn't see that coming... lmao #standardcanuckfans

[Caknuckle Puck]

On 2/5/2016 at 7:24 PM, CanucksJay said:

I think this thread goes to show that a lot of Canucks fans are quite truthful when assessing players.

To be blunt, Vey was awful last year but this year he has been good and as a result, most people call it as they see it. They don't "hate" Vey and have hate goggles like some of the Vey supporters from last year claimed. Last year, his criticism was justified and this year, notice how he is not being criticized as much?

Same with Sbisa. He has looked pretty solid this year and there is not much negative to say about him.

Prust has been sent down, Higgins has been sent down. They were the under performers this year and the fans called it like they saw it and refreshingly, Benning sees it the same way.

Weber was awful this year and notice how he is not playing?

I think the fans have shown their ability as astute observers of the club and I think the majority of our fans are bang on when assessing whether a player is playing well or not and for once, it seems like management is not covering anything up or there's no behind the scenes politics at play where we the fans are left scratching our heads wondering why a certain player is sitting while an inferior player is getting ice time instead.

I love the direction of this team and it further reinforces in my mind that my assessment of players are generally correct.

 

 

Theres a big difference between Assessing a player and playing favorites with players

[CanucksJay]

4 hours ago, Caknuckle Puck said:

Theres a big difference between Assessing a player and playing favorites with players

Yes there is. Generally speaking though, don't we have a natural bias for players that play well? (which comes after assessments) 

[danjr]

• I will admit first season I hated Vey, then I was informed he was a rookie.  Really curbed my knocking him down.

[CanucksJay]

9 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Linden Vey is an asset that is appreciating.   We need to hold on to appreciating assets ( players ).

Burrows and Vrbata  are declining.  Hansen is at his peak.  (  move assets at their peak or declining ) 

Its nothing personal, just a business. 

 

 

I see it exactly the same way. So many people here only want to trade underperformers who we don't have use for. We're a bottom dweller in the league now. If we don't have use for a player, why on earth would a playoff team want that player? 

Hansen is at his ultimate peak. I can't fathom how he could play any better than this. The only thing that can happen in the next 2/3 years is his decline in play. In 2/3 years with Shink, Gaunce, Grenier, Boeser, Cassels fighting for a spot and Hansen declining in play, he would be trade bait. 

It makes sense to trade him this deadline to a contender for a kings ransom. Every playoff team can use a guy like Hansen. Great contract, speed, great defensive awareness, great forechecker,  and ability to score. 

I would only do it for the right deal but I would expect a minimum of at least a 1st rounder for him. 

People want to trade Burrows now and I get that. Hansen is currently playing like Burrows in 2010 and 2011. We didn't trade Burrows back then because we were contenders. It's a different story now. We are nowhere near contending so it's time to trade valuable assets that can only depreciate. Only reason why we would keep depreciating assets like the Sedins are because they represent much more than on ice play. Leadership, character, those are the reasons why you still keep some of the older assets

[kingofsurrey]

3 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

I see it exactly the same way. So many people here only want to trade underperformers who we don't have use for. We're a bottom dweller in the league now. If we don't have use for a player, why on earth would a playoff team want that player? 

Hansen is at his ultimate peak. I can't fathom how he could play any better than this. The only thing that can happen in the next 2/3 years is his decline in play. In 2/3 years with Shink, Gaunce, Grenier, Boeser, Cassels fighting for a spot and Hansen declining in play, he would be trade bait. 

It makes sense to trade him this deadline to a contender for a kings ransom. Every playoff team can use a guy like Hansen. Great contract, speed, great defensive awareness, great forechecker,  and ability to score. 

I would only do it for the right deal but I would expect a minimum of at least a 1st rounder for him. 

People want to trade Burrows now and I get that. Hansen is currently playing like Burrows in 2010 and 2011. We didn't trade Burrows back then because we were contenders. It's a different story now. We are nowhere near contending so it's time to trade valuable assets that can only depreciate. Only reason why we would keep depreciating assets like the Sedins are because they represent much more than on ice play. Leadership, character, those are the reasons why you still keep some of the older assets

Well said. Time for trader Jim to step up the plate and hit a home run for our franchise. Buy low - Sell high Jim. 

[canuckleheads fan]

14 hours ago, Lancaster said:

If Vey seemed like a sure-shot top-6 NHLer, the Kings would have obviously kept him around.  Unfortunately, the Kings probably knew that he's skilled, he doesn't really excel in any one part of the game.  Is he great a faceoffs?  Nope.  A top-tier shot?  Nope.  Elite vision and passing skills?  Not really.  Strong skating + stickhandling skill?  Doesn't excel either.  Not to say he's a bum, but there are tons of players with similar skill sets..... very close, but just not quite there.

Santorelli played very inconsistent earlier in his career, but his time in Vancouver changed his outlook.  He realized that he can't just hope to be a top-6 player, that he has to do whatever it takes, beyond his comfort level to stay in the NHL.  Thus he really worked on his faceoffs, played a gritter style, and more than willing to be placed anyway in the lineup to play (he was a spare defenseman under Torts). 

As for whether or not we'd all be over Linden Vey if he was a Canucks draft..... highly doubt it.  Schroeder and Jensen were first-rounds with seemingly higher skill sets and physical attributes (hence them being drafted in the first round).... yet by the time they reach 21-22, lots of people on CDC were already writing them off and calling them busts.  I can't imagine any prospects given any leeway.... save for Kassian and apparently your love for Vey. 

As for Vey's supposedly role in the rebuild... not sure where you got your rose-coloured goggles from. 

If we had taken Vey in the 4th round as LA did, or in the 2nd which was our cost to acquire him, and he put up numbers in the A like he did for LA, and he put up numbers like he did last year for the Canucks, everybody would be crowing about what a steal he was! Jensen and Schroeder never got remotely close to his numbers in the A. Schroeder as an NHLer has never been close to the numbers Vey has put up in the show. Fact is that both the Jensen and Schroeder drafts were major busts, which is why fans turned on them.

Vey is a playmaker with amazing vision, as demonstrated with some terrific no-look passes last game. Just as Bo is getting comfortable with adding some creativity and dash to his offense, so is Vey. It's a process, it takes time for most rookies not named McJesus to settle in. Vey is the type of player who makes everybody around him better, currently kind of a poor man's Hank, but without a finisher like Dank. That setup of Etem at the side of the net would have been a play of the month had Etem buried it, but instead he shot it wide. I hope WD will put Shink on the wing with Vey and Etem when rosters expand. That should be interesting. Vey the playmaker, Etem the retriever and Shink the sniper, kind of a Bossey-Trottier-Gillies plan.

Vey has done everything management has asked, he's gotten stronger, improved on the dot, and gotten much more defensively responsible, hence he's being rewarded with a chance to make it. So far, he's looked better every game. Suddenly our third line is as dangerous as the top two lines. Maybe not scoring as much, but creating lots of chances and keeping the puck in the offensive zone. It would be good if Burr could rediscover his scoring touch, because rhat line would be even more fun to watch.

Just a final observation. In the last game, we were pinned in our zone, the puck was all around the net, and our dmen were treating it like a live hand grenade. Vey won a board battle, and calmly took the puck behind our net, into the far corner, and got the puck out of the zone. I've seen a lot to like about his game this year, but that one little play showed me the difference between a rookie and a guy who is figuing it out. His calm demeanor with the puck, head up, not making the bad turnover in our zone. He's a keeper.

[kingofsurrey]

Jensen actually actually produced now he is traded..   4 goals in 11 games.

It took him 27 games in Utica this year to get 4 goals...  

The guy can score that is for sure.  Never really got a chance in Vancity though only got 24 games with us. 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Jensen actually actually produced now he is traded..   4 goals in 11 games.

It took him 27 games in Utica this year to get 4 goals...  

The guy can score that is for sure.  Never really got a chance in Vancity though only got 24 games with us. 

Pretty much settling into his usual -.5 average.  Not that great for a guy that has been in the AHL for 3years.  Etem put up 1.00 average  during the same years in the AHL.  So far, we haven't seen that aspect of E's game, but he has developed other skills (using his size and solid defensive coverage) which are useful at the NHL level.

Jensen is just not good enough to play in the NHL thus far.   Maybe the NY system will find a way to develop him.  Unfortunately, time is running out, as he will be waiver eligible next year.  I really think he will end up in Europe.

[ButcherG]

I don't dislike Vey personally. I just think its very unfair that the coach over plays him, because he was on his junior team in Medicine hat.

I would rather see more of McCann at center than Vey.

When Vey is getting more ice time than Daniel Sedin on some nights, I think there is something wrong.

Vey has 2 goals this year and McCann has 7, why not use math to decide who gets the most ice time?

[Time Lord]

2 minutes ago, ButcherG said:

I don't dislike Vey personally. I just think its very unfair that the coach over plays him, because he was on his junior team in Medicine hat.

I would rather see more of McCann at center than Vey.

When Vey is getting more ice time than Daniel Sedin on some nights, I think there is something wrong.

Vey has 2 goals this year and McCann has 7, why not use math to decide who gets the most ice time?

Why are you using goals as the primary offensive stat? Everyone knows points are more important.

Vey has 7 points in 17 games.

McCann has 12 points in 45 games.

Vey has been more productive, undoubtedly.

But if you argued that McCann should be played more for the sake of his development, since he'll be more important to our future, I wouldn't disagree with you.

[alfstonker]

18 hours ago, Lancaster said:

If Vey seemed like a sure-shot top-6 NHLer, the Kings would have obviously kept him around.  Unfortunately, the Kings probably knew that he's skilled, he doesn't really excel in any one part of the game.  Is he great a faceoffs?  Nope.  A top-tier shot?  Nope.  Elite vision and passing skills?  Not really.  Strong skating + stickhandling skill?  Doesn't excel either.  Not to say he's a bum, but there are tons of players with similar skill sets..... very close, but just not quite there.

Santorelli played very inconsistent earlier in his career, but his time in Vancouver changed his outlook.  He realized that he can't just hope to be a top-6 player, that he has to do whatever it takes, beyond his comfort level to stay in the NHL.  Thus he really worked on his faceoffs, played a gritter style, and more than willing to be placed anyway in the lineup to play (he was a spare defenseman under Torts). 

As for whether or not we'd all be over Linden Vey if he was a Canucks draft..... highly doubt it.  Schroeder and Jensen were first-rounds with seemingly higher skill sets and physical attributes (hence them being drafted in the first round).... yet by the time they reach 21-22, lots of people on CDC were already writing them off and calling them busts.  I can't imagine any prospects given any leeway.... save for Kassian and apparently your love for Vey. 

As for Vey's supposedly role in the rebuild... not sure where you got your rose-coloured goggles from. 

Your first point is moot. Vey was a big favourite as I recall and the fans were not best pleased when he left. As for looking like a sure shot, how many rookies with half a season look much more of a sure shot than Vey did? It's not like he was a top 5 pick.

Santorelli realised that after some disappointing seasons, why you are even comparing him to Vey who is 6 years younger is mystifying.

Schroeder and Jensen never looked like they had higher skill sets, Schroeder was too small and played small, he got plenty of chances and never made anything of them. Weak on the boards and soft all round. Jensen got a concussion as a rookie in Chicago and never looked like he was going to get back to his "pre season" promise. His chances all ended with inconsistency and apparent laziness. Green tried to change his game and it looks like he passed the word to JB that it wasn't happening.

Vey is nothing like either of these players. He is more skilled, a harder worker and plays the whole length of the ice. More than that it has become noticeable that he makes others on his line perform.

Your last comment is pretty obvious to anyone watching that Vey is becoming a key player for the team.

[Crabcakes]

5 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

If we had taken Vey in the 4th round as LA did, or in the 2nd which was our cost to acquire him, and he put up numbers in the A like he did for LA, and he put up numbers like he did last year for the Canucks, everybody would be crowing about what a steal he was! Jensen and Schroeder never got remotely close to his numbers in the A. Schroeder as an NHLer has never been close to the numbers Vey has put up in the show. Fact is that both the Jensen and Schroeder drafts were major busts, which is why fans turned on them.

Vey is a playmaker with amazing vision, as demonstrated with some terrific no-look passes last game. Just as Bo is getting comfortable with adding some creativity and dash to his offense, so is Vey. It's a process, it takes time for most rookies not named McJesus to settle in. Vey is the type of player who makes everybody around him better, currently kind of a poor man's Hank, but without a finisher like Dank. That setup of Etem at the side of the net would have been a play of the month had Etem buried it, but instead he shot it wide. I hope WD will put Shink on the wing with Vey and Etem when rosters expand. That should be interesting. Vey the playmaker, Etem the retriever and Shink the sniper, kind of a Bossey-Trottier-Gillies plan.

Vey has done everything management has asked, he's gotten stronger, improved on the dot, and gotten much more defensively responsible, hence he's being rewarded with a chance to make it. So far, he's looked better every game. Suddenly our third line is as dangerous as the top two lines. Maybe not scoring as much, but creating lots of chances and keeping the puck in the offensive zone. It would be good if Burr could rediscover his scoring touch, because rhat line would be even more fun to watch.

Just a final observation. In the last game, we were pinned in our zone, the puck was all around the net, and our dmen were treating it like a live hand grenade. Vey won a board battle, and calmly took the puck behind our net, into the far corner, and got the puck out of the zone. I've seen a lot to like about his game this year, but that one little play showed me the difference between a rookie and a guy who is figuing it out. His calm demeanor with the puck, head up, not making the bad turnover in our zone. He's a keeper.

Good post.

I guess what I (and a lot of CDC) have to get used to the idea that Vey is turning his game around after a disappointing first year with the Canucks.  I expected a bigger, stronger player at camp after a full summer of training.  The player I saw at the beginning of the season was slower and no better. I had written him off.

Half a year in Utica has done him good.  He's actually beating out McCann for the 3C spot.  We'll see how McCann reacts.  Gotta love this internal competition. 

[Googlie]

Even Zalewski is outplaying McCann as a center.  I've said elsewhere, McCann should be on the wing, preferably left wing to Vey and Etem, until he learns how to take face-offs.

2016/17 I see Shink coming to the big club as the 3rd line left winger, and McCann spending most of the year in Utica learning how to play Center among men

[NuckleheadFan]

21 hours ago, Lancaster said:

If Vey seemed like a sure-shot top-6 NHLer, the Kings would have obviously kept him around.  Unfortunately, the Kings probably knew that he's skilled, he doesn't really excel in any one part of the game.  Is he great a faceoffs?  Nope.  A top-tier shot?  Nope.  Elite vision and passing skills?  Not really.  Strong skating + stickhandling skill?  Doesn't excel either.  Not to say he's a bum, but there are tons of players with similar skill sets..... very close, but just not quite there.

Santorelli played very inconsistent earlier in his career, but his time in Vancouver changed his outlook.  He realized that he can't just hope to be a top-6 player, that he has to do whatever it takes, beyond his comfort level to stay in the NHL.  Thus he really worked on his faceoffs, played a gritter style, and more than willing to be placed anyway in the lineup to play (he was a spare defenseman under Torts). 

As for whether or not we'd all be over Linden Vey if he was a Canucks draft..... highly doubt it.  Schroeder and Jensen were first-rounds with seemingly higher skill sets and physical attributes (hence them being drafted in the first round).... yet by the time they reach 21-22, lots of people on CDC were already writing them off and calling them busts.  I can't imagine any prospects given any leeway.... save for Kassian and apparently your love for Vey. 

As for Vey's supposedly role in the rebuild... not sure where you got your rose-coloured goggles from. 

i'm pretty sure Kings was very deep in RW and traded Vey for a pick since Vey probably wasn't going to see much ice time with the Kings.

[canuckleheads fan]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

Good post.

I guess what I (and a lot of CDC) have to get used to the idea that Vey is turning his game around after a disappointing first year with the Canucks.  I expected a bigger, stronger player at camp after a full summer of training.  The player I saw at the beginning of the season was slower and no better. I had written him off.

Half a year in Utica has done him good.  He's actually beating out McCann for the 3C spot.  We'll see how McCann reacts.  Gotta love this internal competition. 

I think he did come to camp bigger, at least he said he did, but it's taken him some time to get used to playing at the higher weight. He was much more of a perimeter player last year. I think he had to overcome the mindset of being smaller. He had to reacquaint himself with the dirty areas. I think Utica's skating coach has helped him too, Vey's never going to be a burner, but he looks quicker to me this year.