Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Westcoasting]

15 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

This is where your fandom comes in, because he was probably your favourite player in Canucks history. But the fact is if we play the same game most of CDC plays with Juolevi and Tkachuk or with Virtanen vs Ehlers and Nylander, you will see that the Canucks should've drafted Roenick, Brindamour or Selanne. It doesn't matter that Linden had a pretty good career. Those other guys were unquestionably significantly superior to Trevor Linden. 

You are correct... and talk like this did happen back then but it was usually over a beer or two at the pub on  a friday night. Or you would hear it on a radio show and the caller would be cut off for such talk! the internet has changed so much!  Yeah that draft now and everyone  would be asking why the scouting staff didn't find out about Selanne or take a chance on that russian dude.

[Warhippy]

Back to the actual topic.

 

Has anyone heard word on Juolevi's surgery?  I know he's 6 weeks out or more at this point from even skating but is there word on the nature of the injury and the actual surgery/recovery time?

[TheRealistOptimist]

No, I doubt they will update us too, especially during the season. I think that's the whole point of coming out and saying he was done until training camp next year. Now he can just rehab and train in order to give himself the best chance to make the team out of camp next season, without fans asking the organization if he's coming back this season.
 

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

No, I doubt they will update us too, especially during the season. I think that's the whole point of coming out and saying he was done until training camp next year. Now he can just rehab and train in order to give himself the best chance to make the team out of camp next season, without fans asking the organization if he's coming back this season.
 

That's kind of why I am inquiring about his injury, recovery timetable.  It would be amazing if his recovery time was say 3-4 months before skating, 5 months for contact.  It would essentially give him an additional 2-3 months before the start of the season and sheltered time/minutes in the pre-season before an AHL stint

 

[SingleThorn]

8 hours ago, The Lock said:

EDIT: Just looking at the history further back and it seems before Woodley, things were half decent. Woodley must have literally grabbed a 2x4 and smacked our scouting department or something.

Woodley, if memory serves me well, was part of what was considered a very weak draft. Plenty of players ended up having great careers tho'. Woodley had some weird problem with the arches of his feet. Specialised skates were meant to fix the problem, but never did. Back then, whenever we had a high pick, it was a weak draft year. That has been replaced by 'dropping a spot or three' at the lottery stage ! ( JJ Daigneault coming up to the draft stage on crutches seemed to sum up our drafting from that era ! ......Juolevi just got his crutches a little later in the process. )

[Phat Fingers]

17 hours ago, The Lock said:

I'm just going to say the same thing from however many pages back. It's a prediction and it's clearly a biased prediction as you clearly hate the guy. I honestly haven't seen any solid evidence that Tkachuk has character issues. I'm not going to tell you whether to like or hate a guy, but it was a rather unneeded spread of what's basically just a rumour imo.

 

That being said, I also think 5th attacking what you said 11 pages back (or whatever it was) is also silly and him pouting more than anything and he had no need to bring it up.

I dont like Tkachuk.... yes.  Is he a good player.... yes.  The whole thing started with a report that MT was seeking money north of Johnny Hockey.  In the 9 mil range.  Very much a reminder of what his dad did to the Jets. 

 

Also after the recent Nylander issue in TO and with our young ELC players, do we want a prominent player in the locker room getting greedy as an RFA.  That is a the type of issue that can derail a successful rebuild.  

 

I did not want Kieth access to the canucks youth movement.  He put himself first above his team and club.  I suspect Matt will do the same.  No proof, but my concern was that he would be just like his dad.  

 

That report was speculative, but it did bring home why I did not favour Matt at the draft.  It appears that JB and co didn't either as they did not even interview Matt.  

[73 Percent]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

I dont like Tkachuk.... yes.  Is he a good player.... yes.  The whole thing started with a report that MT was seeking money north of Johnny Hockey.  In the 9 mil range.  Very much a reminder of what his dad did to the Jets. 

 

Also after the recent Nylander issue in TO and with our young ELC players, do we want a prominent player in the locker room getting greedy as an RFA.  That is a the type of issue that can derail a successful rebuild.  

 

I did not want Kieth access to the canucks youth movement.  He put himself first above his team and club.  I suspect Matt will do the same.  No proof, but my concern was that he would be just like his dad.  

 

That report was speculative, but it did bring home why I did not favour Matt at the draft.  It appears that JB and co didn't either as they did not even interview Matt.  

Everyone likes to harp on the nylander contract now. HOWEVER we're going to sign boeser to a similar caphit while he hasn't put the pts up that Willie has. It's easy to judge what other teams do with their young talent before we've done it. 

 

Flame away  

 

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Regardless of whether Juolevi was the best player available, Benning addressed a very big organization need with the Pick. Tkachuk and Keller may become better players, but at the end of the day, the Canucks desparately (And still do) need  quality defensemen in their prospect pool. I honestly don't know what the commotion is about. He's played very well at the pro level, and just needs some seasoning, like most young defensemen. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

9 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Everyone likes to harp on the nylander contract now. HOWEVER we're going to sign boeser to a similar caphit while he hasn't put the pts up that Willie has. It's easy to judge what other teams do with their young talent before we've done it. 

 

Flame away  

 

 

People will go to why ever extreme they can find to paint an opposing playing in a negative light..  Saying a playing makes too much money is purely grasping at straws.  The only reason a player can ask for those big dollars is because of what they have earned.  It's not like the reason Jake isn't demanding 9 million is because he's doing it for the good of the team, it's because he hasn't shown that's he's worth 9 million, plain an simple...

 

Brock, and a year later EP are going to be asking for what they feel is fair to the value they bring..... and it's not going to be cheap. Will they all of the sudden become villains for doing the same thing these other playings have done, probably not.  

[Phat Fingers]

27 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Everyone likes to harp on the nylander contract now. HOWEVER we're going to sign boeser to a similar caphit while he hasn't put the pts up that Willie has. It's easy to judge what other teams do with their young talent before we've done it. 

 

Flame away  

 

 

It's not resigning Boeser that will matter, we have to do that.  Its whether his character leads him to push for more and more money.  

 

Nylander sat out, negativity affecting the team and was rather selfish in doing so.  He could have signed easily for 6 million and been with the leafs at the start of the year.  When your getting 6 million, why do you fight for another few hundred thousand.  Your stinking rich and have a paycheck for the next 6 years.  That's greed IMO.  

 

That can take hold and effect negotiations with other pending players.  

 

So is Boeser the type of guy to be greedy for another million on top of his 6 or 7 million per year deal like Nylander?  I dont think so. 

 

Was Horvat? No.  I hope his leadership and example runs off on others.  Will we see EP40 break the team to earn another million or two a year or leave it on the table to make the team better as he will be stinking rich either way?

 

Had McDavid signed for 10 million, is he not rich? Could that 2 million help his team and his success if it could go to another salary?  Would Leon have been signed for as much if McDavid had set an example and still bee  stinking rich.  

 

Cap management has to be factored into drafting.  Look at Bo vs Monahan/Driasilt.  Bo signed a reasonable contract with a team first perspective.  He is the best player based on minutes and points vs cost.  

 

His character was a selling point on drafting him.  That choice to not get greedy on his part will give him and the team a better chance of success over the length if the deal.  He is also stinking rich.  

 

That's why I didn't want Tkachuk.  I have some concern about Hughes, but with Brock next and Horvat already showing an example, I think our cap will not become a obstacle to success.  

[Borvat]

12 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Back to the actual topic.

 

Has anyone heard word on Juolevi's surgery?  I know he's 6 weeks out or more at this point from even skating but is there word on the nature of the injury and the actual surgery/recovery time?

I tried to find anything regarding which knee was surgically repaired.  Do you know if it is the same one that was previously repaired or is it the other knee?

 

If it's the same knee as before I am more concerned.

[Hogs & Podz]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

Cap management has to be factored into drafting.  Look at Bo vs Monahan/Driasilt.  Bo signed a reasonable contract with a team first perspective.  He is the best player based on minutes and points vs cost.  

 

His character was a selling point on drafting him.  That choice to not get greedy on his part will give him and the team a better chance of success over the length if the deal.  He is also stinking rich.  

 

That's why I didn't want Tkachuk.  I have some concern about Hughes, but with Brock next and Horvat already showing an example, I think our cap will not become a obstacle to success.

You make some good points, and I agree that the canucks management look at character as an important part of their drafting process.  

 

Also, until you mentioned it, I hadn't thought about Hughes's characteristics.  We will see... But he could turn out to be a me first kinda guy.  His style if play can be perceived that way... Time will tell if his personality is 'all about me'. 

 

He stayed with Michigan this year rather then going to Utica or Vancouver out of loyalty and desire to win a championship with them.... So.... That shows good character.  Will be a fun process to watch.

 

Sorry..... Didn't realize I was in OJ forum!

Edited January 26, 2019 by Rodishred

[Hogs & Podz]

Talking about OJ.... I had a chance to meet him... Well my intent was to meet him.  I went to Shawnigan Lake to watch the prospects 2016.  That was the one Boeser was at with Stetcher after being signed as a FA and all the other draftees for that year.  I really wanted to meet OJ in person, as I was excited we drafted him.  I waited around after practice.  First came Demko and Boeser to sign autographs.  Both these guys were engaging, calm, comfortable with the attention on them.  I especially liked Demko!  When the time came to meet OJ, he really didn't make himself available to the public.... I figured because his english wasn't strong.... But after seeing him pass by, I tried getting his attention, he looked at me and looked to me like he was uncomfortable and wanted to have nothing to do with the fans. 

 

Now, this is my interpretation but, after that encounter, I wasn't sure about his ability to embrace his new surroundings, team and culture.  Hopefully this was because of his young age and my misinterpretation!

 

 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 hour ago, Rodishred said:

Talking about OJ.... I had a chance to meet him... Well my intent was to meet him.  I went to Shawnigan Lake to watch the prospects 2016.  That was the one Boeser was at with Stetcher after being signed as a FA and all the other draftees for that year.  I really wanted to meet OJ in person, as I was excited we drafted him.  I waited around after practice.  First came Demko and Boeser to sign autographs.  Both these guys were engaging, calm, comfortable with the attention on them.  I especially liked Demko!  When the time came to meet OJ, he really didn't make himself available to the public.... I figured because his english wasn't strong.... But after seeing him pass by, I tried getting his attention, he looked at me and looked to me like he was uncomfortable and wanted to have nothing to do with the fans. 

 

Now, this is my interpretation but, after that encounter, I wasn't sure about his ability to embrace his new surroundings, team and culture.  Hopefully this was because of his young age and my misinterpretation!

 

 

I wouldn’t read too much into it. 18yo kid in a new country. Not surprising he might have been a little withdrawn when it came to fans. That said, I know there were people who got autographs from Olli at that camp, and they only had positive things to say about his fan interactions. So probably just caught him at a bad time when he wasn’t feeling up to meeting fans, or he was just busy and needed to get somewhere.

Edited January 26, 2019 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

It's not resigning Boeser that will matter, we have to do that.  Its whether his character leads him to push for more and more money.  

 

Nylander sat out, negativity affecting the team and was rather selfish in doing so.  He could have signed easily for 6 million and been with the leafs at the start of the year.  When your getting 6 million, why do you fight for another few hundred thousand.  Your stinking rich and have a paycheck for the next 6 years.  That's greed IMO.  

 

That can take hold and effect negotiations with other pending players.  

 

So is Boeser the type of guy to be greedy for another million on top of his 6 or 7 million per year deal like Nylander?  I dont think so. 

 

Your points aren't fact, they are your OWN speculation made up of your own biases and most of them are easily debunked.  

For example:

• -You don't know how much the leafs were offering at the start of negotiations.  You can claim he was greedy for not taking 6x6 at the start of summer, but nothing suggests that was even on the table. all the speculation was that leafs were looking for a short term bridge deal under 6.  

 

Spoiler

A very rough estimate of what a bridge deal can look like for Nylander is something within the 2-4 year range and have a cap hit anywhere from $4.5-6M. That is a couple of very wide margins, but there is a lot of uncertainty around this contract.

https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/10/27/does-a-bridge-deal-for-nylander-benefit-the-leafs/

 

Spoiler

Bob McKenzie: I got to believe that Plan A is still trying to get William Nylander signed a vice versa for the player to play in the NHL for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Lots of speculation into how that might happen. Talked to one agent, not involved in the process at all, who predicted that this would likely end up being settled on a three-year bridge deal - four million in the first year, five million in the second year, seven million in the third year. That would be a $5.33 million AVV.

https://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-is-a-bridge-deal-in-the-cards-for-nylander-1.1210599

 

• You seem to forget that Bo Horvat held out the entire summer before he signed his contract.  Was he greedy for not just taking the very first offer that he was offer as no matter what he was going to be "stinking rich"

Spoiler

"Some parts of it, you're like, 'What's going on?'" Horvat said. "And you're calling your agent and saying, 'Is it getting close?' or 'What's happening?' But they did a great job informing me pretty much every time they talked and telling me what happened and how it went and just to be patient, that in negotiations this is what happens all the time.

 

• How do you know Brock wont hold out?  If he doesn't feel canucks aren't offering him what he feel he's worth, i bet he will.   I think it's a lot less likely as canucks aren't in the same cap crunch as the leafs and will likely cave first but . Plenty of players have held out for month.  gaudreau, subban, turris, Benn, Athanasiou, O'Reily, Trouba, Lindholm, Ristolienen and johansen all recently have held out till they felt they were going to get paid what they were worth, it happens.  Had Leafs not put themselves into cap pains with a marleau signing and a huge tavares deal a year later, this deal doesn't go on past august.  

 

• The biggest part of this argument is that there has been zero evidence that Tkachuk is demanding 9 million.  And that it's self destroys this whole argument that he's got these "character issues"  The only time 9 mill is mentions is some random speculation that Tkachuk could ask for "up to" 9 million, not that he has.  Trevling was on the radio last week talking about his contract extension and mentioned nothing of the such, in fact that it was more of the opposite that he already started contract talks but wants to base playoff performance on it as well.  What happens if MT signs under 9 million and or doesn't end up holding out and missing any time, will you now change your stance on his "character issues" or will you just make up something else to hate on a rival player?  Strange how this player with character issues is someone the flames have talked about becoming the next captain when gio retires.  

 

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Had McDavid signed for 10 million, is he not rich? Could that 2 million help his team and his success if it could go to another salary?  Would Leon have been signed for as much if McDavid had set an example and still bee  stinking rich.  

While cap management is important, oilers wouldn't be in so much cap troubles if they hadn't signed a bunch of albatross contracts:

6 million on lucic, 5.5 million on sekeras, 4 million on Russell, 4.16 on Talbot.  That's 20% of their cap wasted on players that don't move the needle at all, any team that makes that many bad decisions is going to be in cap trouble.  

[The Lock]

7 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

I dont like Tkachuk.... yes.  Is he a good player.... yes.  The whole thing started with a report that MT was seeking money north of Johnny Hockey.  In the 9 mil range.  Very much a reminder of what his dad did to the Jets. 

 

Also after the recent Nylander issue in TO and with our young ELC players, do we want a prominent player in the locker room getting greedy as an RFA.  That is a the type of issue that can derail a successful rebuild.  

 

I did not want Kieth access to the canucks youth movement.  He put himself first above his team and club.  I suspect Matt will do the same.  No proof, but my concern was that he would be just like his dad.  

 

That report was speculative, but it did bring home why I did not favour Matt at the draft.  It appears that JB and co didn't either as they did not even interview Matt.  

Can you provide actual links showing Keith Tkachuk putting himself before his club? Keep in mind this is the same guy who allowed himself to be traded and then resigned with St. Louis afterwards. That sounds more like helping the club than putting himself first don't you think?

 

Also, how is money somehow the "end all" in putting oneself above the club? No player ever has to provide a team a discount and expecting one to do so is from your own selfishness in my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it doesn't make it right.

 

All I'm really seeing from you in this are statements with no facts. Please provide facts (preferably with links) or I'm just going to assume you are full of it to be honest.

[Phat Fingers]

32 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Can you provide actual links showing Keith Tkachuk putting himself before his club? Keep in mind this is the same guy who allowed himself to be traded and then resigned with St. Louis afterwards. That sounds more like helping the club than putting himself first don't you think?

 

Also, how is money somehow the "end all" in putting oneself above the club? No player ever has to provide a team a discount and expecting one to do so is from your own selfishness in my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it doesn't make it right.

 

All I'm really seeing from you in this are statements with no facts. Please provide facts (preferably with links) or I'm just going to assume you are full of it to be honest.

I dont know how old you are but I followed the former jets in the peg that became the coyotes.  Keith signed an offer sheet that paid him a huge stack of cash and then flaunted his cash around the peg like a giant turd.  He lit cigars with 100 dollar Bill's.  This is the time when the peg lost the jets and had traded Selane away to keep Tkachuk.  The next year the jets were gone and the offer sheet was the nail in the coffin.  How's that for being a giant ass to a Canadian market.  

 

He may have become a better team player but I will always remember the ass that played in Winnipeg. 

 

This was widely reported on and easy to find on your own.  I dont feel.the need to source this for you.  

Edited January 26, 2019 by Phat Fingers

[The Lock]

6 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

I dont know how old you are but I followed the former jets in the peg that became the coyotes.  Keith signed an offer sheet that paid him a huge stack of cash and then flaunted his cash around the peg like a giant turd.  He lit cigars with 100 dollar Bill's.  This is the time when the peg lost the jets and had traded Selane away to keep Tkachuk.  The next year the jets were gone and the offer sheet was the nail in the coffin.  How's that for being a giant ass to a Canadian market.  

 

He may have become a better team player but I will always remember the ass that played in Winnipeg. 

 

This was widely reported on and easy to find on your own.  I dont feel.the need to source this for you.  

So basically you are the type of person who doesn't like to forgive and is willing to spread your hate, whether right or wrong, decades later? Based on the start of a career and not even the full career even if the person has changed? This also then extends to his children basically being against that child at birth with that child having little to no say in whether you are going to like them or not?

 

That's some extreme grudging there. Unhealthy I might add...

Edited January 26, 2019 by The Lock

[Phat Fingers]

12 minutes ago, The Lock said:

So basically you are the type of person who doesn't like to forgive and is willing to spread your hate, whether right or wrong, decades later? Based on the start of a career and not even the full career even if the person has changed? This also then extends to his children basically being against that child at birth with that child having little to no say in whether you are going to like them or not?

 

That's some extreme grudging there. Unhealthy I might add...

Hold on there bub.  You have no idea what kind if person I am and shove that kind of statement were that sun doesn't shine.  You have an unhealthy habit of throwing out gross judgments based on one person's opinion of a hockey player that played 2 decades ago.  

 

 

 

I have my opinion and you have yours.  I didn't bring in personal insults and you want to judge my character cause I don't like Keith Tkachuk.  You like him, well good for you, but dont judge me cause I don't.  Take your "insight" and CDC shrink act and screw off. 

 

 

 

 

[The Lock]

Just now, Phat Fingers said:

Hold on there bub.  You have no idea what kind if person I am and shove that kind of statement were that sun doesn't shine.  You have an unhealthy habit of throwing out gross judgments based on one person's opinion of a hockey player that played 2 decades ago.  

 

 

 

I have my opinion and you have yours.  I didn't bring in personal insults and you want to judge my character cause I don't like Keith Tkachuk.  You like him, well good for you, but dont judge me cause I don't.  Take your "insight" and CDC shrink act and screw off. 

 

 

 

 

Overreact much? I wasn't meaning to insult (and if I did I apologize). At the same time, I still can't agree with judging someone's kid based on what a parent did.

 

I also have never said that I like Tkachuk. I just don't see the point of holding a grudge against him before he even gets drafted. I'm neutral in that regard.

 

You are right that I have no idea what kind of person you are, and I know that holding grudges often means having a heart; however, I also know from experience that having a heart does not mean being in the right state of mind. I had an experience with someone who held grudges all over the place who eventually I got into a fight with. He started spreading rumours about me. I decided to be the stronger person and not hold a grudge against him. Most people ended up seeing that and he ended up being the one who fell.

 

Grudges are for the weak in my opinion.