2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[stawns]

13 hours ago, guntrix said:

I even have my doubts about Patrick and Hischier being franchise players... simply not a good draft player-wise. 

 

We should be looking to grab picks for the next one. 

JB thinks it's actually a deep draft for the first three rounds, just no generational kinds of players

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

JB thinks it's actually a deep draft for the first three rounds, just no generational kinds of players

We won't know for a decade.  That's the joy of drafting

[cookieeater55]

23 minutes ago, stawns said:

JB thinks it's actually a deep draft for the first three rounds, just no generational kinds of players

so a lot of hornet type players ??

 

i would gladly take another horvat !!!!!

[Gaudette Celly]

6 hours ago, Rush17 said:

can we fast forward to the draft?

Hold on, we need to cede a few spots in the lotto first.

[Odd.]

 

 

Holy crap this guy can shoot the puck

[Sean Monahan]

12 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I would trade the 1st overall to Arizona Colorado or Las Vegas, whoever was willing to offer me their 1st round pick next year.

 

Gambling on one fo those 3 teams being in the top 10 draft order is like gambling on it raining in Vancouver next week.

I don't see why they'd trade that pick then.

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don't see why they'd trade that pick then.

1st overall is a pretty big thing when you need not only an identity and #1 center but also a shot in the arm for your team and fans.

 

If all it costs is your first this year plus a first next year/top prospect and a 2nd or b prospect to move up from 3rd or 4th overall to do it it's worth it for a lot of teams.

 

Look at the rumoured packages offered to move up in the recent past.  That's really not out of the ordinary or bounds of realism

[MoneypuckOverlord]

I was able to obtain a copy of the Vancouver Canucks mid term rankings through a valid source.

 

In this ranking, Vancouver Canucks categorized from, Offensive forwards, 2 way forwards, offensive mans, 2 way dmans, pw Fwds. and have players categorized into each one.

 

this list has 50 players name on it, as this list looks like a target for who they want in their 1st 2 rounds.

 

as promise I am not going to disclose what was on that list, I will say some.

 

Hischier is rated number 1 in Offensive forward category.

Nolan Patrick is rated number 1 in  2 way fowards

Liljegren is rated number 1 in offensive dman.  (The Canucks only have 3 defencemens rated as offensive dmans)

 

What really stood out to me in this list is...

 

Vilardi listed as number 8 in offensive fowards

Mittelstadt listed as number 5 in offensive fowards.

 

Right behind Nolan Patrick at number 2 in 2 way forwards is Necas.

B.C boy Rasmusson is rated number 4 in 2 way forwards.

bc boy Callan Foote listed at number 3 in 2 way defenders

 

Today we are standing at 6th from the bottom, don't expect the Canucks to be drafting Vilardi or MIttlestadt if both those players on their on board. Infact I see another 2016 repeat, as in , we all thought Tkachuk will be our player but we selected someone else, because Vilardi and MIttlestadt are so highly regarded our brains think they are for sure top 5 or 6 or 7 players, and we think we will draft one of them.

 

Players 4-16 is one tier.  1-3 is one tier.  The higher the pick the better, but the 16th pick is going to be as good as the number 4 player.

 

 

 

 

[Shiftynifty]

1 hour ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

I was able to obtain a copy of the Vancouver Canucks mid term rankings through a valid source.

 

In this ranking, Vancouver Canucks categorized from, Offensive forwards, 2 way forwards, offensive mans, 2 way dmans, pw Fwds. and have players categorized into each one.

 

this list has 50 players name on it, as this list looks like a target for who they want in their 1st 2 rounds.

 

as promise I am not going to disclose what was on that list, I will say some.

 

Hischier is rated number 1 in Offensive forward category.

Nolan Patrick is rated number 1 in  2 way fowards

Liljegren is rated number 1 in offensive dman.  (The Canucks only have 3 defencemens rated as offensive dmans)

 

What really stood out to me in this list is...

 

Vilardi listed as number 8 in offensive fowards

Mittelstadt listed as number 5 in offensive fowards.

 

Right behind Nolan Patrick at number 2 in 2 way forwards is Necas.

B.C boy Rasmusson is rated number 4 in 2 way forwards.

bc boy Callan Foote listed at number 3 in 2 way defenders

 

Today we are standing at 6th from the bottom, don't expect the Canucks to be drafting Vilardi or MIttlestadt if both those players on their on board. Infact I see another 2016 repeat, as in , we all thought Tkachuk will be our player but we selected someone else, because Vilardi and MIttlestadt are so highly regarded our brains think they are for sure top 5 or 6 or 7 players, and we think we will draft one of them.

 

Players 4-16 is one tier.  1-3 is one tier.  The higher the pick the better, but the 16th pick is going to be as good as the number 4 player.

 

 

 

 

Think this was posted a few days ago.

[NEON.KNEE]

20 hours ago, Rush17 said:

so lilgren over Patrick. mmmk 

 

I'd gamble on Patrick myself.  but Lilgren may be the better player. 

Every game I've seen Patrick play in he hasn't been overly noticeable compared to others on the ice.  I honestly feel like this fanbase would ruin him with over hype.  If the Canucks get 1st overall I hope they trade it or take Hiscier 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, NEON.KNEE said:

Every game I've seen Patrick play in he hasn't been overly noticeable compared to others on the ice.  I honestly feel like this fanbase would ruin him with over hype.  If the Canucks get 1st overall I hope they trade it or take Hiscier 

Stefan point deuce!

 

He scares me, which is why with the 1st overall pick I'd be happy to trade down.

[Sean Monahan]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

1st overall is a pretty big thing when you need not only an identity and #1 center but also a shot in the arm for your team and fans.

 

If all it costs is your first this year plus a first next year/top prospect and a 2nd or b prospect to move up from 3rd or 4th overall to do it it's worth it for a lot of teams.

 

Look at the rumoured packages offered to move up in the recent past.  That's really not out of the ordinary or bounds of realism

Sure, it makes sense with some of the rumored asking prices but when I read about the quality of the 2017 and 2018 drafts it doesn't make much sense. 2018 is supposed to be a stacked draft and Patrick or Hischier wouldn't be going in the top 3-4 from what I've read. I don't see why somebody would trade so much just to move up in this year's draft when they could be drafting a stud next year. Svechnikov, Dahlin, etc etc. It's a good draft.

[D.B Cooper]

11 hours ago, Odd. said:

 

 

Holy crap this guy can shoot the puck

All 3 of those goals were beauties.  

Pretty impressive!  

[Toews]

I think ultimately with the way the lottery is set up teams will always be careful trading future 1sts without some sort of lottery protection. Letting someone walk away with a franchise talent because you risked your 1st is something that I don't think any GM will risk. The last time a mediocre team decided to trade multiple 1sts for one player was the Kessel trade and we all know how that trade worked out.

[Warhippy]

40 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Sure, it makes sense with some of the rumored asking prices but when I read about the quality of the 2017 and 2018 drafts it doesn't make much sense. 2018 is supposed to be a stacked draft and Patrick or Hischier wouldn't be going in the top 3-4 from what I've read. I don't see why somebody would trade so much just to move up in this year's draft when they could be drafting a stud next year. Svechnikov, Dahlin, etc etc. It's a good draft.

You may not see it, but look at the rumours of what was offered by Benning for Reinhardt, or what Yzerman offered for Mackinnon, hell look what Snow offered to move up from 4th to 2nd so he could draft Murray in 2012 (every pick in the 2012 draft he offered)

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean a thing.  If there is such a drop off from 1-3 to #4 and Colorado/Arizona are desperate for a #1 center (Colorado especially if they move Duchene) and Las Vegas is in need of a major coup for their 1st draft and something to cement their futures.

 

1 single extra 1st that is in no way shape or form guaranteed to be anything but a pick in the 1st round is not much of an overpayment at all.

[hammertime]

6 hours ago, Warhippy said:

1st overall is a pretty big thing when you need not only an identity and #1 center but also a shot in the arm for your team and fans.

 

If all it costs is your first this year plus a first next year/top prospect and a 2nd or b prospect to move up from 3rd or 4th overall to do it it's worth it for a lot of teams.

 

Look at the rumoured packages offered to move up in the recent past.  That's really not out of the ordinary or bounds of realism

There isn't much drop off in talent in this draft between 1st overall and 10th overall and even less between 10th overall and 30th.

 

Unlike many drafts in the "recent past."

[Sean Monahan]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You may not see it, but look at the rumours of what was offered by Benning for Reinhardt, or what Yzerman offered for Mackinnon, hell look what Snow offered to move up from 4th to 2nd so he could draft Murray in 2012 (every pick in the 2012 draft he offered)

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean a thing.  If there is such a drop off from 1-3 to #4 and Colorado/Arizona are desperate for a #1 center (Colorado especially if they move Duchene) and Las Vegas is in need of a major coup for their 1st draft and something to cement their futures.

 

1 single extra 1st that is in no way shape or form guaranteed to be anything but a pick in the 1st round is not much of an overpayment at all.

Agree to disagree. Look at what Toews pointed out too. Do you think Toronto makes that trade again with the hindsight to know they'd land Tyler Seguin? And iirc benning was offering our 6th overall, shinkaruk, and something else for Reinhart. I don't think any GM who carried a first round pick that had the potential to be a lottery pick in 2015 was willing to trade it away for anything less than a spectacular return. It just doesn't make sense. You'd have to find yourself a really stupid GM to take you up on the kind of deal you've proposed. What would you think if it were reversed and JB took that deal? Say we trade the 2017 fourth overall and our 2018 first for the 2017 first overall. Hypothetically this could be Middelstadt, Vilardi, etc etc and Dahlin for Patrick. That's a terrible deal.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

Agree to disagree. Look at what Toews pointed out too. Do you think Toronto makes that trade again with the hindsight to know they'd land Tyler Seguin? And iirc benning was offering our 6th overall, shinkaruk, and something else for Reinhart. I don't think any GM who carried a first round pick that had the potential to be a lottery pick in 2015 was willing to trade it away for anything less than a spectacular return. It just doesn't make sense. You'd have to find yourself a really stupid GM to take you up on the kind of deal you've proposed. What would you think if it were reversed and JB took that deal? Say we trade the 2017 fourth overall and our 2018 first for the 2017 first overall. Hypothetically this could be Middelstadt, Vilardi, etc etc and Dahlin for Patrick. That's a terrible deal.

Exactly right

 

6th plus shink plus high pick/prospect

 

People here would have been crowing because they don't think about next year let alone 5 from now

 

They think shiny new toy means playoffs means we have henriks replacement 

 

Agree to disagree then sure.  But when you speak of stupid GMs look no further than the TDL and the first day of free agency.

 

Then get back to me on how that is a deal that wouldn't be made.

[Sean Monahan]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Exactly right

 

6th plus shink plus high pick/prospect

 

People here would have been crowing because they don't think about next year let alone 5 from now

 

They think shiny new toy means playoffs means we have henriks replacement 

 

Agree to disagree then sure.  But when you speak of stupid GMs look no further than the TDL and the first day of free agency.

 

Then get back to me on how that is a deal that wouldn't be made.

I don't think free agency and deadline deals are a fair comparison here. For starters, how often do you ever see a draft day trade involving a high pick? It's rare. I can recall one incident in recent years where a team (which wasn't expected to be a serious contender) traded their first round pick for the next year's draft and that one turned into a colossal failure. With the expectations surrounding the 2018 draft I just don't see a team doing this, especially when the players available with the first pick or two in 2017 aren't expected to be serious franchise players. If there was a Matthews or Laine available this year then maybe you see it but even then I don't think it's likely. 

 

Like I said, imagine it this way:

 

Vilardi/Mittelstadt (sp) + Dahlin/Svechnikov 

 

for 

 

Nolan Patrick. 

 

A team could potentially be trading a superior prospect (in 2018) plus a very good one for a lesser prospect. All in an effort to move forward a single year. I just don't think it'll happen.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Sean Monahan said:

I don't think free agency and deadline deals are a fair comparison here. For starters, how often do you ever see a draft day trade involving a high pick? It's rare. I can recall one incident in recent years where a team (which wasn't expected to be a serious contender) traded their first round pick for the next year's draft and that one turned into a colossal failure. With the expectations surrounding the 2018 draft I just don't see a team doing this, especially when the players available with the first pick or two in 2017 aren't expected to be serious franchise players. If there was a Matthews or Laine available this year then maybe you see it but even then I don't think it's likely. 

 

Like I said, imagine it this way:

 

Vilardi/Mittelstadt (sp) + Dahlin/Svechnikov 

 

for 

 

Nolan Patrick. 

 

A team could potentially be trading a superior prospect (in 2018) plus a very good one for a lesser prospect. All in an effort to move forward a single year. I just don't think it'll happen.

Let's use Colorado as the example.

 

Landeskog and Duchene will both garner 1st round picks.

 

If they lose theirs yet have 2 others it's not a huge loss.

 

Arizona losing next year's 1st to draft their future franchise center.  Not a loss.

 

Vegas under McPhee needs a coup.

 

Protect it if it's next year's 1st overall 

 

But to say that's a no go off hand is silly