Honky Cat Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 6 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Cool your jets, I said lighter version. Burke gave up draft picks AKA future assets for RFA's as did benning. It's not the same degree of severity but it's the same idea. I like how everyone uses Edmonton as a tank fail but forget the mountain of teams that failed at speeding up a rebuild with different degrees of stupidity. Lets build through the draft with no draft picks!!! Difference is..other teams have not been as successful at the draft table as JB...if JB couldn't draft worth a s**t and gave up picks I would get your point... JB is all about the draft,but you have to give to get..looking at the rate of exchange the Oilers gave up for Larsson,I don't think that the 2nd is going to kill us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I think they need to stay away from the idea that they need player/players to supplement the Sedins. If they do happen upon a player that fits that mold, perhaps Eriksson, then so be it. The focus needs to be on the team as a whole, not what can be done for the time the team has remaining with the Sedin's. After all it is a team game and the team will remain long after they retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1 minute ago, Honky Cat said: Difference is..other teams have not been as successful at the draft table as JB...if JB couldn't draft worth a s**t and gave up picks I would get your point... JB is all about the draft,but you have to give to get..looking at the rate of exchange the Oilers gave up for Larsson,I don't think that the 2nd is going to kill us. Not ready to judge his drafting, it's too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I don't necessarily buy into what they're selling. They've been dishonest at times in what they present in the media (eg: their stated expectations for the season have not been consistent). So I don't think their true plan is always the one they represent publicly. And same goes for their true beliefs about where this team is and what needs to be done (before we can contend again). That said, I do mostly support what management is actually doing with the team (at least in the "broad strokes"). I'm critical on some aspects but I believe the overall approach is correct (at least for the circumstances specific to this franchise, in terms of ownership and fanbase) and moving us in the right direction. It's an extremely difficult task that management is faced with. The majority of the more dedicated fans (like daily posters and bloggers) tend to poll toward wanting a full rebuild. But management knows that the less rabid Canucks fans will almost certainly stay away if this team commits to a full rebuild (and everything that comes with it). So a retool on the fly (and maybe a bit of a "stealth rebuild" also), while trying to compete for a playoff spot every season, is really the only option. At least if Benning wants to keep his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 1 minute ago, LaBamba said: Not ready to judge his drafting, it's too early. You could say the same for Marner,Nylander etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snucks Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I don't buy into anything the Canucks are doing . It has perhaps occurred to some of us that the present coach will stifle any new comers and veterans alike. I think the choice of the present coach has been a problem. Maybe D Jarvis can take over soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 15 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Who cares, they have Burns, Pavelski, buck tooth, Vlasic, Jones as a young core for years to come. We don't have anything compatible to that. Yes, I realize where those players were drafted but, you gotta have draft picks to be able to get that lucky. We keep cashing ours in to rush this rebuild. We have comparable players, albeit younger and less established. Doesn't mean they're not in the system already. Also, your earlier post about franchise and elite players being picked in the top half of the 1st round is hogwash. Last year alone, 50% of the top 10 scorers were picked 15 (Karlsson) and beyond. But sure, okay. Gotta tank for that MAYBE that we get a franchise player. Give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I don't buy what they are selling. However what thy are doing and what they are selling aren't the same thing at all. I'm honestly on board with much of what they are doing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 20 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: You could say the same for Marner,Nylander etc.. Well ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipes2539 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 24 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Who cares, they have Burns, Pavelski, buck tooth, Vlasic, Jones as a young core for years to come. We don't have anything compatible to that. Yes, I realize where those players were drafted but, you gotta have draft picks to be able to get that lucky. We keep cashing ours in to rush this rebuild. But here's the thing LaBamba, you say that he's rushing the rebuild, but it's not like he gave up 2 round picks for 30+ old players, he's given them up for players still in their early 20s, players who've actually proven that they can play in the NHL. He hasn't given up any 1st round picks, the picks that you're talking about drafting quality talent with. And people don't like the McCann trade but you know what who knows what goes on behind closed doors (apparently he had an attitude issue), and after a nice start McCann pretty much disappeared for most of last season and that's with getting plenty of opportunity with all the injuries we had. Shinkaruk...I mean jury is still out on that one who knows what'll happen there. But JB is trading question marks (2nd round picks and beyond) for young established players who still haven't come anywhere near their prime. As much as you believe that he's rushing a rebuild, there's another way to look at it too, let's say he doesn't make those trades and things with those players and picks don't pan out, how many years will this rebuild you're talking about take? With your preferred rebuild method, each year a 2nd round pick and beyond don't work out, that's another year tagged on to the rebuild that could go on for god knows how long. At least the aspect of his plan to keep the team competitive by cycling in a younger core keeps the games interesting. And if the Canucks get in to the playoffs, anything can happen, a key injury to a team here and there changes everything. People in Vancouver think they want a full rebuild, but in reality (and i'm sure you know this) this fan base won't gut it out with the team, I remember the late 90s well and this city can't handle a decades worth of losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 15 minutes ago, ThaShady1 said: Last year alone, 50% of the top 10 scorers were picked 15 (Karlsson) and beyond. But sure, okay. Gotta tank for that MAYBE that we get a franchise player. Give me a break. Ok, great, so how do you draft those players? Last time I looked you used draft picks. We burn a lot on guys who we end up losing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Just now, LaBamba said: Ok, great, so how do you draft those players? Last time I looked you used draft picks. We burn a lot on guys who we end up losing anyway. I feel like you're really stuck on trading McCann. And that's alright, it was a tough one to swallow for me as well. But we got a player that helps us now AND in the next 8+ years. McCann wasn't going to crack our top 6, which is where he needs to be to be successful with his skill set. Maybe not even next year. Have I watched a ton of Gudbranson? Not really. But I have read enough and seen enough to know he fills a gaping hole on our backend, whereas McCann didn't fill any hole we already have someone pencilled in for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 44 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Who cares, they have Burns, Pavelski, buck tooth, Vlasic, Jones as a young core for years to come. We don't have anything compatible to that. Yes, I realize where those players were drafted but, you gotta have draft picks to be able to get that lucky. We keep cashing ours in to rush this rebuild. pavelski is also 32 this week. I think you're overstating their youth tbh - bucky, vlasic, Jones - that aint so impressive - we can match those dweebs, but I enjoy the disagreement regardless. The Sharks were exactly case in point #1 of a team that "shoulda" rebuilt last year or before and instead signed even older free agents and were the wtf team of the NHL imo - and proved everyone like me wrong. But now, it's beyond too late - they're nose diving hard into the future lol. Sure glad we didn't do that - and instead retooled our demographic moving forward. I wouldn't trade them places tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Furthermore, @LaBamba, what draft picks are we continuously giving up? Last I checked we were down a total of 1 pick since Benning took over. Obviously, they're lower "quality" picks, as in further along in the draft, but picks nontheless. With those picks, Benning has drafted 3 who have already played in the NHL, and arguably 5 more who look like they have the potential to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 If we stay the course of building with good/great goaltending...a very good back end and continue to add some good young pieces on the front end we will be fine. If we rush because the Sedins are running out of time, we will find ourselves with many more years of frustration. I am willing to take some losing now to have a much better team in the next 3 or so years, unfortunately the ownership group may not have or want that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 I fully back them as you need goaltending first = check you need good D = check our forwards need a bit of help but so far so good this draft he got the best player at that spot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 3 hours ago, Canuckler87 said: Hey everyone, I rarely start topics but wanted to gauge how fellow canucks fans felt about this. Now, post the destruction of the 2011 core, I was among those who called for a full scale rebuild. I was of the mind that it's tear everything down and start over. However, seeing the Oilers fail to make the playoffs with a upstart young core has greatly changed my mind. They clearly have nobody on that roster that knows how to win and lead! Nevertheless, they have also been grossly mismanaged. Point is, I now believe in what GMJB is doing. He inherited a mess yet added/developed young pieces such as Hutton, Horvat, Virtanen, Juolevi, Demko among others. This while also making the playoffs one year and giving someone like Horvat a taste of what it takes to get there and compete. Even the most negative haters have to admit our future is brighter than before Benning took over. I also believe that having leaders and relatively young players like gudbranson come in and help the Sedins out in terms of leadership and pushing young guys to be better will pay off. It's not like we haven't been getting high draft picks either. Horvat, Virtanen and Juolevi all went in the top ten. For these reasons I am on board with what management has been doing. Wanted to gauge what others thought. Opinions? I am definitely on board with what management is doing. They have rebuilt the goalie depth (after the disaster that was the Canucks goalie situation in Gillis' last two years) and they are on their way to rebuilding the defence. Obviously the next stage is the top six forward (long-term) group. The main thing is they have added a group of young players (21 - 26-year old age group) that are now on the NHL team...as a result, they no longer have to push the really young prospects too quickly. Guys like Olli can take their time and join the show when they are truly ready. Also, Benning is actually drafting well so the organization's overall depth is way better (after only two years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono2009 Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 They can't backup what they are "selling." They refuse to call it rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Juolevi Eriksson Gudbranson Boeser Sutter Demko Tryamkin Baertchi Virtanen Etem Sbisa Larsen Granlund (Markstrom, Horvat, Hutton, Gaunce...) yeah, ok, I'll buy some of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 i'm buying in ,especially when there's other canadian citizens doing this ...and there's way more of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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