Analytics were right about Gudbranson

[JM_]

7 hours ago, Matt_T83 said:

 

Come on, everyone agrees Edmonton got fleeced there. That's not fair market value for Taylor Hall. They were just desperate to trade a value piece and get a young defenseman that can grow with the team. They will regret it, and it will go down as a terrible trade. If McCann can get his development back on track after we wrecked it, the Gudbranson trade will also go down as terrible.

 

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, "fair" has nothing to do with it. Its a premium market for D. Thats why the Kane-for-Tanev ideas are so laughable. 

 

How did the Canucks "wreck" McCann? He's not an immediate impact player, we need to wait and see what he becomes, and there's risk to that. He may never become and impactful player, we just don't know. Guddy on the other hand has proven with the right partner he's effective. 

[SaintPatrick33]

2 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

Ben Hutton will be traded soon

 

Well the leafs tried to trade Gardiner, but nobody wants a D man who cant play D. Sure he makes nice moves, but he is no strecher on the strech pass, man this kid needs some time in the AHL, yet peeps whine about Subby? at least he puts up points. Hutton has little value around the league. 

 

Once again this organization is allergic to offensive talent, instead they will let players suffer. 

[SaintPatrick33]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, "fair" has nothing to do with it. Its a premium market for D. Thats why the Kane-for-Tanev ideas are so laughable. 

 

How did the Canucks "wreck" McCann? He's not an immediate impact player, we need to wait and see what he becomes, and there's risk to that. He may never become and impactful player, we just don't know. Guddy on the other hand has proven with the right partner he's effective. 

 

Gud Has only proven one "good" season thus far, and being that he played with two proven vets in Mitchell and Campbell. So IMO he has yet to prove he is an alpha dog, rather he is a useless 4th pairing D-man, much like Bryan Allen, another top 10 pick. 

 

He needs to show some snarl and leadership, otherwise I would rather have a 4 year project like McCann AND a 2nd rounder. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

Gud Has only proven one "good" season thus far, and being that he played with two proven vets in Mitchell and Campbell. So IMO he has yet to prove he is an alpha dog, rather he is a useless 4th pairing D-man, much like Bryan Allen, another top 10 pick. 

 

He needs to show some snarl and leadership, otherwise I would rather have a 4 year project like McCann AND a 2nd rounder. 

 

Fair enough. But a Bryan Allen comparison! Ouch 

 

I need to see him under a different coach and with other partners to make that decision. 

[LaBamba]

13 minutes ago, TheCammer said:

Did we? 1 goal, 1 assist in 15 games. Scoring phenom???

 

Relax.

 

Gudbranson is only 24. Yes, and his minus 9 is indicative of team play more so than his individual play.

 

Arizona and the young analytics guru are 5-9 and 8th in the Pacific. Great example. (sarcasm) Let's get a number cruncher...hurry...

 

Hahaha McCann is a dud (20 years old) 

 

Gudbransen is only 24 hahah 

 

I love when I don't even have to say anything to burn guys like this. 

 

Blatant self soothing homerism. 

 

Let me guess, Virtanen still has potiential too eh? Even though him and Dud McCann are the same age and getting about the same amount of ice. 

 

Horrible logic. 

[canacks1970]

9 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I have a feeling his best years are ahead of him. Wait until his late 20s to even early 30s when this guy starts to shine. More than anything else, he brings plenty of physicality to a defence that lacked it all of last season.

 

Meanwhile we broke McCann's development anyway by rushing him into the NHL on a losing team and now look how useless he is in Florida.

 So how do you think they ruined his development  when he had nothing to prove in Jr and he was too young at the time to go to the farm ? The kid is only 20 years old . Florida  could have sent him down to the farm.

[Toews]

4 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

Well the leafs tried to trade Gardiner, but nobody wants a D man who cant play D. Sure he makes nice moves, but he is no strecher on the strech pass, man this kid needs some time in the AHL, yet peeps whine about Subby? at least he puts up points. Hutton has little value around the league. 

 

Once again this organization is allergic to offensive talent, instead they will let players suffer. 

Players like Gardiner are valuable when you are a possession based team. The Leafs under Carlyle were an awful possession team, Gardiner ended up getting exposed quite a bit as a result. Now with Babcock there they have the puck a lot more and that's where players like Gardiner thrive. Of course I hope Hutton develops into a better player defensively but even if he ends up a Gardiner, I will settle for that. While you might see Gardiner get walked a lot, his possession stats are always very good. With the offensive talent on the Leafs, I am going to wager that Gardiner contributes more offensively than he gives up defensively this season.

 

Hutton has a long way to go, just give it some time and patience. We will need his offensive talent on the blue line if this team ever puts it together.

[Toews]

Just now, canacks1970 said:

 So how do you think they ruined his development  when he had nothing to prove in Jr and he was too young at the time to go to the farm ? The kid is only 20 years old . Florida  could have sent him down to the farm.

The Panthers haven't send him down because they are lacking forward depth having lost three top 9 forwards to injury early in the season.

[SaintPatrick33]

1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Fair enough. But a Bryan Allen comparison! Ouch 

 

I need to see him under a different coach and with other partners to make that decision. 

 

Comparing Gud to Bryan Allen is actually a complement, Allen played 700 plus NHL games with about 130 points, very similar to Gudbranson. 

 

I mean I hate to say it but unless these "intangibles" like leadership and crease clearing show up, he is another journeyman D-man. He has no foot speed and gets walked around by elite wingers like no tomorrow. 

 

Would rather have Mike Weaver, at least he blocked shots to show he was a team guy. 

 

Trymak has shown more intimidation than this guy that we gave up a 1st round prospect McCann AND a 2nd rounder in a stacked draft for. 

 

[SaintPatrick33]

3 minutes ago, Toews said:

Players like Gardiner are valuable when you are a possession based team. The Leafs under Carlyle were an awful possession team, Gardiner ended up getting exposed quite a bit as a result. Now with Babcock there they have the puck a lot more and that's where players like Gardiner thrive. Of course I hope Hutton develops into a better player defensively but even if he ends up a Gardiner, I will settle for that. While you might see Gardiner get walked a lot, his possession stats are always very good. With the offensive talent on the Leafs, I am going to wager that Gardiner contributes more offensively than he gives up defensively this season.

 

Hutton has a long way to go, just give it some time and patience. We will need his offensive talent on the blue line if this team ever puts it together.

 

You are absolutely correct sir, but this organization promised us "playoffs" and a "competitive team" so I will be as harsh as a fan as I need to be. I do not wish to spend 3hrs of my time watching blowouts like what we just witnessed. Unless this org succumbs to a true rebuild like the leafs, I will be a critic as I refuse to be lied to. 

[The Lock]

Here's a concept for you: the team's not winning; therefore, most or all of our players are going to look bad.

 

Yet, somehow we're singling out Gudbranson.... smart.... 

[DarthMelvin]

People be saying "oh he's only 24".... Do we as a team want to be teaching a 24 year old how to play D...lol give your head a shake..

[aGENT]

Yay another typical CDC post lacking any sort of context...

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, DarthMelvin said:

People be saying "oh he's only 24".... Do we as a team want to be teaching a 24 year old how to play D...lol give your head a shake..

 

Yes we do. Defensemen take longer to develop. 24 is young. Very young actually.

 

Stop treating these players like you expect them to be Chara by the age of 2. You're dreaming. This is reality.

[stuman491]

10 hours ago, Rush17 said:

flip him for Reinhart and Kane :D

I'd give you GM of the year if you could pull this one off!

[DarthMelvin]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

Yes we do. Defensemen take longer to develop. 24 is young. Very young actually.

 

Stop treating these players like you expect them to be Chara by the age of 2. You're dreaming. This is reality.

And you should quit enabling him...he has been in the NHL for 3 years and still has NOT improved. What a waste of a trade. When we first got this player I was excited maybe all he needed was a new team a new feel. But now I see why FP traded this washout.

[The Lock]

Just now, DarthMelvin said:

And you should quit enabling him...he has been in the NHL for 3 years and still has NOT improved. What a waste of a trade. When we first got this player I was excited maybe all he needed was a new team a new feel. But now I see why FP traded this washout.

 

What hockey have you been watching? He's improved a lot. You know how many minutes he played for Florida in the end? There's also a reason why he was pegged as being the next Florida captain.

 

Yet, apparently it's better to not watch hockey and go "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH I hate this trade!" Grow up. Give our players a shot rather than just throwing them under the bus 10 games into the season. Give your head a shake.

[Jaku]

I'm so glad I had a minus to use on the OP. 24 years old, absolute tank of a d-man, has a lot of time to grow, paired with a sophomore player, playing on a team that can't seem to get their crap together. Yup. Terrible trade... -.-'

[cbdoubleu]

Plus/Minus is always a funny stat, but for what it's worth Ben Hutton was also a team worst -15 on his U. of Maine team in 2014-2015, and was a -21 last year (worst among defenders).

 

I always see Hutton as a poor man's Chris Tanev, except he's actually not very good at Tanev'ing, and he doesn't have tremendous offensive upside or PP QB skills to offset his average 5-on-5 play.

 

So it's funny that Ben Hutton is getting a pass, while Jordan Subban is arguably our best offensive PP D man, who can't be any worse 5-on-5 than Ben Hutton has been in his NHL career so far, is labelled as not NHL ready.

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, cbdoubleu said:

Plus/Minus is always a funny stat, but for what it's worth Ben Hutton was also a team worst -15 on his U. of Maine team in 2014-2015, and was a -21 last year (worst among defenders).

 

I always see Hutton as a poor man's Chris Tanev, except he's actually not very good at Tanev'ing, and he doesn't have tremendous offensive upside or PP QB skills to offset his average 5-on-5 play.

 

So it's funny that Ben Hutton is getting a pass, while Jordan Subban is arguably our best offensive PP D man, who can't be any worse 5-on-5 than Ben Hutton has been in his NHL career so far, is labelled as not NHL ready.

2 inches and shiny new toy syndrome.