189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Throw out the measuring stick? I have some reservations. And this comes from someone who loathes the soul crushing school systems of today. This snowflake learning outcome sounds great, but what are we producing for the workforce. I have to pay to hire these, free thinkers, rather than pick the kids who demonstrate excellence in rote leaning, which if I'm paying someone to investigate money laundering, I want high math marks, not relative to anything but efficient use of time. Maybe this new method will be a renaissance workforce of 6-blade knives or maybe it will be the ultimate lowest common denominator or socialist-like bankruptcy of competitive, overachievers who push the bar of perfecting their exact discipline. Sounds like you got an A in art, so I've hired you onto my team and really, you're only good at contextual theory and excelled in a deeper understanding of Art, but you're no artist. How does this help me as an employer? Withought something that measures your exact knowledge of statistics, how can I weigh you against the next snowflake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 33 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: What about kids that are from homes that are unstable and poorly stimulated / no resources..... Do these kids deserve any kind of an quality education ? What about them? How would teachers salaries or changing to problem based learning help that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Anything that would break and destroy the BCTF would be a good thing for BC. If this helps, I'm spitefully, all-in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Anything that would break and destroy the BCTF would be a good thing for BC. If this helps, I'm spitefully, all-in! You may be all in but the Supreme court isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, gurn said: You may be all in but the Supreme court isn't. Parasites. Not the teachers, this union. Not to derail the intriguing thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Throw out the measuring stick? I have some reservations. And this comes from someone who loathes the soul crushing school systems of today. This snowflake learning outcome sounds great, but what are we producing for the workforce. I have to pay to hire these, free thinkers, rather than pick the kids who demonstrate excellence in rote leaning, which if I'm paying someone to investigate money laundering, I want high math marks, not relative to anything but efficient use of time. Maybe this new method will be a renaissance workforce of 6-blade knives or maybe it will be the ultimate lowest common denominator or socialist-like bankruptcy of competitive, overachievers who push the bar of perfecting their exact discipline. Sounds like you got an A in art, so I've hired you onto my team and really, you're only good at contextual theory and excelled in a deeper understanding of Art, but you're no artist. How does this help me as an employer? Withought something that measures your exact knowledge of statistics, how can I weigh you against the next snowflake? Someone can feel free to correct me but if I recall, in Finland, as you get in to higher grades, subjects you show higher aptitude on and interest in, tend to receive more focus in the individual's education and curriculum. So if you show a propensity towards math, you might be pointed in the direction of business, banking, engineering etc, etc and thus educated towards those goals. Pretty sure if I'm a business/banking company and someone's had their last few years of high school and then college/university geared towards business/banking....I can feel pretty secure that the kids isn't just a whiz at art theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Parasites. Not the teachers, this union. Not to derail the intriguing thread... How is workers belonging a union = Parasites. You realize without unions Canada would be a much worse off country. Unions provide members with wages that can support a family and also ensure safe working conditions. I am not in a Union but i 100 % support Unions in Canada. Canadian Unions have built this country and we owe them so much..... All canadians should be thankful for the part that Canadian Unions have played in the battle to ensure decent working conditions for Canadian workers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuman491 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I am absolutely amazed by this. Such a great idea. For students to come to class and understand why they are taking the class and how that class applies to what they want to do for a career is amazing. This needs to happen all over Canada. I know BC just re-invented their curriculum, but it will still have the same problems with student interest. I want this for BC asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: How is workers belonging a union = Parasites. You realize without unions Canada would be a much worse off country. Unions provide members with wages that can support a family and also ensure safe working conditions. I am not in a Union but i 100 % support Unions in Canada. Canadian Unions have built this country and we owe them so much..... All canadians should be thankful for the part that Canadian Unions have played in the battle to ensure decent working conditions for Canadian workers... To be fair he/she said that the union was parasitic and not necessarily the teachers belonging to this union. Some unions are great, some are terrible. I am not a teacher, but I definitely know of teachers that are not to pleased with their union. Even NDP-supporting teachers have told me that they thought it was a pretty bad idea to use funds to donate to the NDP... was a good way to piss off liberals and create an adversarial relationship. Back to the thread... I think it is a great idea. It is not as if its some freaky Montessori type school. This isn't happening until grade 11. The world is shaping up in a way that demands greater specificity in expertise. Finland's model is going to adapt to this need faster than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Down by the River said: To be fair he/she said that the union was parasitic and not necessarily the teachers belonging to this union. Without the BCTF Union , teachers in an Anti Education province such as BC would be paid 15 bucks an hour like in Arkansas. This would attract highschool drop outs to take on the job of teaching our children.... Is that really what the public wants ? Without the BCTF specials needs kids would be housed 40 kids to one assistant and a leaky portable doing nothing... The Union actually fights for the learning conditions of special needs kids..... I respect that. You have to pay a good wage to attract top talent. Thats the way the world works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, kingofsurrey said: With the BCTF Union , teachers in an Anti Education province such as BC would be paid 15 bucks an hour like in Arkansas. This would attract highschool drop outs to take on the job of teaching our children.... Is that really what the public wants ? You have to pay a good wage to attract top talent. Thats the way the world works. I think you're exaggerating how this would impact public schools, but nevertheless, I'm not saying teachers should not have a union, I'm saying that there is the possibility the the dynamic of the BCTF could be greatly improved in a way that benefits (1) the most talented teachers and (2) students. When it is nearly impossible to get rid of old farts that are resistant to, for example, adapting their curriculum to meet changes going on in the world, at what point do we also consider the harm that this particular union is having? Does all the bad associated with the BCTF outweigh all the good that it does? I'm not sure. I am sure that things could be better and that the union hasn't made those steps to make things better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Down by the River said: I think you're exaggerating how this would impact public schools, but nevertheless, I'm not saying teachers should not have a union, I'm saying that there is the possibility the the dynamic of the BCTF could be greatly improved in a way that benefits (1) the most talented teachers and (2) students. When it is nearly impossible to get rid of old farts that are resistant to, for example, adapting their curriculum to meet changes going on in the world, at what point do we also consider the harm that this particular union is having? Does all the bad associated with the BCTF outweigh all the good that it does? I'm not sure. I am sure that things could be better and that the union hasn't made those steps to make things better. I bet more teachers get dismissed than Lawyers, Doctors Dentists etc... other professionals.... Why does the public in BC hate teachers so much... Most anti education province in Canada ? Is this a carry over from the 1970's when people could just get high paying resource sector jobs ? Does BC have a very low rate of adults gettting post secondary educations ? Why does the BC public have so little respect for education and educators ? By the way, my kids had fantastic hardworking BCTF members teach / coach / mentor them throughout the school system. Would not want their job for a minute. High stress, hard work, long hours for not great wages... Many teachers in fact quit after a year or two and go get private sector ( easier ) jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: I bet more teachers get dismissed than Lawyers, Doctors Dentists etc... other professionals.... Why does the public in BC hate teachers so much... Most anti education province in Canada ? Is this a carry over from the 1970's when people could just get high paying resource sector jobs ? Does BC have a very low rate of adults gettting post secondary educations ? Why does the BC public have so little respect for education and educators ? By the way, my kids had fantastic hardworking BCTF members teach / coach / mentor them throughout the school system. Would not want their job for a minute. High stress, hard work, long hours for not great wages... Many teachers in fact quit after a year or two and go get private sector ( easier ) jobs. This is literally a Donald Trump-style of questioning, only on the other side of the floor. You are consistently asking questions as if the underlying premise were universally true. #1 I don't see any evidence that the BC public 'hates teachers so much' or that BC public has little respect for education. #2 A resource has already been posted showing that BC has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education #3 "many teachers in fact [again sounding like Donald Trump] quit after a year or two... where is your actual evidence that this is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Down by the River said: This is literally a Donald Trump-style of questioning, only on the other side of the floor. You are consistently asking questions as if the underlying premise were universally true. #1 I don't see any evidence that the BC public 'hates teachers so much' or that BC public has little respect for education. #2 A resource has already been posted showing that BC has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education #3 "many teachers in fact [again sounding like Donald Trump] quit after a year or two... where is your actual evidence that this is the case? Point 1 You do realize that the BC government funds bc students less than almost any other province in Canada.. FACT. Money shows priorities.... Point 2 - i will post on it later... Point 3 How about this... According to 2004 figures from the Canadian Teachers’ Federation, roughly 30 per cent of Canadian teachers leave their jobs in the first 5 years. Rob Tierney, a professor in the Department of Language and Literacy Education in UBC’s Faculty of Education, talks about why teachers burnout and what schools can do to retain them. http://news.ubc.ca/2015/04/22/why-are-so-many-new-teachers-burning-out/ Rob Tierney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: How about this... According to 2004 figures from the Canadian Teachers’ Federation, roughly 30 per cent of Canadian teachers leave their jobs in the first 5 years. Rob Tierney, a professor in the Department of Language and Literacy Education in UBC’s Faculty of Education, talks about why teachers burnout and what schools can do to retain them. http://news.ubc.ca/2015/04/22/why-are-so-many-new-teachers-burning-out/ Rob Tierney So that's a nice start, but (1) it isn't specific to BC, (2) it isn't showing that teachers leave because of burnout, (3) it isn't showing that these teachers do not leave their job for another teaching opportunity. I don't care what the answer is, but I want the actual answer. We don't know why teachers are leaving their job and we definitely don't know if BC teachers are more likely to leave their job due to the lack of support they receive relative to teachers in other provinces.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 52 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Without the BCTF Union , teachers in an Anti Education province such as BC would be paid 15 bucks an hour like in Arkansas. This would attract highschool drop outs to take on the job of teaching our children.... Is that really what the public wants ? Without the BCTF specials needs kids would be housed 40 kids to one assistant and a leaky portable doing nothing... The Union actually fights for the learning conditions of special needs kids..... I respect that. You have to pay a good wage to attract top talent. Thats the way the world works. Since private school teachers aren't part of the BCTF, I guess private school are lower quality than public school, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, J.R. said: Someone can feel free to correct me but if I recall, in Finland, as you get in to higher grades, subjects you show higher aptitude on and interest in, tend to receive more focus in the individual's education and curriculum. So if you show a propensity towards math, you might be pointed in the direction of business, banking, engineering etc, etc and thus educated towards those goals. Pretty sure if I'm a business/banking company and someone's had their last few years of high school and then college/university geared towards business/banking....I can feel pretty secure that the kids isn't just a whiz at art theory I did not infer that this new style would only produce art students. Im talking about the measuring stick of how you compare to your peers being compromised with this method and what that means to future employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: I bet more teachers get dismissed than Lawyers, Doctors Dentists etc... other professionals.... Why does the public in BC hate teachers so much... Most anti education province in Canada ? Is this a carry over from the 1970's when people could just get high paying resource sector jobs ? Does BC have a very low rate of adults gettting post secondary educations ? Why does the BC public have so little respect for education and educators ? By the way, my kids had fantastic hardworking BCTF members teach / coach / mentor them throughout the school system. Would not want their job for a minute. High stress, hard work, long hours for not great wages... Many teachers in fact quit after a year or two and go get private sector ( easier ) jobs. Try to separate the union from the individual/teacher. Try. Anti Education? Where do you get that from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I did not infer that this new style would only produce art students. Im talking about the measuring stick of how you compare to your peers being compromised with this method and what that means to future employers. Neither did I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 29 minutes ago, Down by the River said: This is literally a Donald Trump-style of questioning, only on the other side of the floor. You are consistently asking questions as if the underlying premise were universally true. #1 I don't see any evidence that the BC public 'hates teachers so much' or that BC public has little respect for education. #2 A resource has already been posted showing that BC has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education #3 "many teachers in fact [again sounding like Donald Trump] quit after a year or two... where is your actual evidence that this is the case? This is literally how I shut libtards up, asking to see the facts and then asking who should pay for it, yet you say this is how to undermine Trump. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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