iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 3/29/2017 at 9:30 PM, kingofsurrey said: 1) Do we have enough? Canucks have zero toughness. It is a major problem for our club. It is critical we find some toughness on our top 6. Virt are you reading this ? We are in serious trouble if we do a rebuild with youth and no one to ride shotty for the kids.. How did that work out for the Oil stain ? I would have loved to see Lucic or Kass on our current club..... Oil have marron as well. Who do we have that compares to any of these 3 ? 2 )Should we draft it? Summer-sign it? Trade for it? Or all of the above? We need to sign it as drafting a tough 18 yr old will not help us in the immediate future. We needed to sign toughness up front but instead our brilliant GM signed Loui E the magician now famous for his disappearing act. That's why i'd love to see Rasmussen get picked up, but he needs development like Virt did but down the road it will pay off. Never fast enough for most fickle canucks fans but that's never changed and probably never will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 3/29/2017 at 10:25 PM, RRypien37 said: This has been a topic beaten to death and an issue since the end of the Crawford era. and it's never ever been addressed by the team.. until Benning acquired Virtanen to get things (hopefully) started but we need a older version of his size and skill until he matures and can stay in the line-up fulltime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/21/2017 at 9:58 AM, PhillipBlunt said: Benning has his work cut out for him this off season. While I'm hopeful that Hischier will become a Canuck and join a promising young core, there is a definite need to add a physical element to a forward corps that has been given an infusion of youth and speed already. As well, sadly, there is a very large hole in the defense that needs to be filled. I don't envy Trader Jim this offseason, as coming back with essentially the same team, minus Miller and Tryamkin, will spell trouble for an already beleaguered season ticket base. True but then again we lose miller's cap and what would have been a healthy raise for Tram but it will be interesting to see how much we shell out for Bo and see what cap we have leftover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I seem to recall (heh I'm too lazy to look it up & confirm - especially since the NHL.com site sucks - I miss the "old site") the Canucks leading (or close to the lead) in fighting majors for a season or two under AV. Didn't stop people (fans of other teams) from still calling the Canucks a bunch of "girly-men". Do I want players with toughness & skill? Of course I do. But failing that, I'd rather have players with skill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: I seem to recall (heh I'm too lazy to look it up & confirm - especially since the NHL.com site sucks - I miss the "old site") the Canucks leading (or close to the lead) in fighting majors for a season or two under AV. Didn't stop people (fans of other teams) from still calling the Canucks a bunch of "girly-men". Do I want players with toughness & skill? Of course I do. But failing that, I'd rather have players with skill. Thant's the new balance most GM's are looking for, Toughness/skill players mixed with pure skill as in Grets,Messier, and Kurri. That was the best model in hockey history (arguably) of course, Trots, Bossy, and Gillies was potent as _ _ _ _ too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, iceman64 said: and it's never ever been addressed by the team.. until Benning acquired Virtanen to get things (hopefully) started but we need a older version of his size and skill until he matures and can stay in the line-up fulltime I really don't think Virtanen is "getting things started" in the toughness department. If Jimbo wanted to address the issue, he would have by now. He has had 3 season to do so. Look how quickly Chia brought in the likes of Maroon, Kassian, Lucic, Gryba... Team toughness concerns will seemingly plague this team till about 2078. Edited April 23, 2017 by RRypien37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, RRypien37 said: I really don't think Virtanen is "getting things started" in the toughness department. If Jimbo wanted to address the issue, he would have by now. He has had 3 season to do so. Look how quickly Chia brought in the likes of Maroon, Kassian, Lucic, Gryba... Team toughness concerns will seemingly plague this team till about 2078. Well Virtanen is your stereo typical big power forward which is a stark contrast to smaller speedy forwards that are a dime a dozen that we've had lots of over the years. At least Virt is over 6' tall... opposed to Mason Raymond etc etc let's say... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRypien37 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, iceman64 said: Well Virtanen is your stereo typical big power forward which is a stark contrast to smaller speedy forwards that are a dime a dozen that we've had lots of over the years. At least Virt is over 6' tall... opposed to Mason Raymond etc etc let's say... Virtanen needs to worry about putting up points before anything else. Point being, asides from Guddy and Dorsett (too an extent because of his small stature), this team has no legitimate toughness, specifically in the top 6. Asides from Kassian (at times only), this roster hasn't seen an intimidating and willing presence in the top 6 since Bertuzzi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, RRypien37 said: Virtanen needs to worry about putting up points before anything else. Point being, asides from Guddy and Dorsett (too an extent because of his small stature), this team has no legitimate toughness, specifically in the top 6. Asides from Kassian (at times only), this roster hasn't seen an intimidating and willing presence in the top 6 since Bertuzzi. Well Virtanen is young and needs to be "tempered" upstairs as in maturing as in any power forward does but i'm not dis-agreeing with you, without Gud, Sbisa and Dors... This team would be softer than a cream puff and it's not that far off now, and you screen name reminds me of how much this team misses rick ryp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 While toughness is important, this team right now needs to focus on getting skill. Doesn't matter how tough you are if you have no skill then you aren't going to go anywhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 37 minutes ago, mpt said: While toughness is important, this team right now needs to focus on getting skill. Doesn't matter how tough you are if you have no skill then you aren't going to go anywhere We are getting skill and will keep drafting and developing skill. We need size and toughness now just as much as in the future. Win or lose we need to bring about more a physical presence in games because as it stands now we are an easy team to play against physically. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: We are getting skill and will keep drafting and developing skill. We need size and toughness now just as much as in the future. Win or lose we need to bring about more a physical presence in games because as it stands now we are an easy team to play against physically. We don't have nearly enough skill to do anything significant besides having a lottery pick. I don't think we have even hit rock bottom yet. Edited April 23, 2017 by mpt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Just now, mpt said: We don't have nearly enough skill to do anything significant besides having a lottery pick As I said we are getting skill and will keep getting and developing skill. Goldobin, Dahlen, Boeser. We will also be getting our next best prospect this upcoming draft. After that I won't be surprised if we used other picks and next year for skill as well. Look up and down are current lineup. We don't have any guys, particularly upfront, that goes out and plays a physical hard nosed game. None of our forwards brings the type of presence that keeps the opponents heads up and honest. The only guy we have that keeps people honest is Gubranson and he isn't the type of player that will frustrate opponents physically. I am not saying go out and spend our 1st on some meat and potatoes, we've done that. Neither am I saying go out and spend big on someone that does. I am saying add more to our bottom 6. Beef up this team so that our youth will be protected and in a better environment to develop. We aren't going to be scoring until the kids we have(and get) grow but we can make sure opponents don't intimidate us as much as they've been able to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: As I said we are getting skill and will keep getting and developing skill. Goldobin, Dahlen, Boeser. We will also be getting our next best prospect this upcoming draft. After that I won't be surprised if we used other picks and next year for skill as well. Look up and down are current lineup. We don't have any guys, particularly upfront, that goes out and plays a physical hard nosed game. None of our forwards brings the type of presence that keeps the opponents heads up and honest. The only guy we have that keeps people honest is Gubranson and he isn't the type of player that will frustrate opponents physically. I am not saying go out and spend our 1st on some meat and potatoes, we've done that. Neither am I saying go out and spend big on someone that does. I am saying add more to our bottom 6. Beef up this team so that our youth will be protected and in a better environment to develop. We aren't going to be scoring until the kids we have(and get) grow but we can make sure opponents don't intimidate us as much as they've been able to. I agree with you, except our toughness can be found in Grenier, Labate, Gaunce, Dorsett. The problem is the team employs Skille, Megna, Chaput etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, mpt said: I agree with you, except our toughness can be found in Grenier, Labate, Gaunce, Dorsett. That is not NHL toughness. My rec team has tougher guys on it than those 4 ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 35 minutes ago, mpt said: I agree with you, except our toughness can be found in Grenier, Labate, Gaunce, Dorsett. The problem is the team employs Skille, Megna, Chaput etc. Gaunce and Grenier haven't shown that aspect at all. They won't wow you physically, keep opponents on edge or intimidate them. I don't see Grenier having a future in the NHL anyway. Dorsett has heart but isn't intimidating and Lebate needs to develop and grow into that role before being thrown there forefront. We need to bring in a couple guys for our bottom 6 to carry the load physically while showing the way for guys like Lebate and Virtanen when he is ready. On top of everything else I said. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Nuck Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Crabcakes said: Bob Dylan said, If you don't want to be a bum, you'd better chew gum. That's good enough for me. he also said: Look out kidYou're gonna get hit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: I seem to recall (heh I'm too lazy to look it up & confirm - especially since the NHL.com site sucks - I miss the "old site") the Canucks leading (or close to the lead) in fighting majors for a season or two under AV. Didn't stop people (fans of other teams) from still calling the Canucks a bunch of "girly-men". Do I want players with toughness & skill? Of course I do. But failing that, I'd rather have players with skill. Pugilence was on the way out when AV was here and we really haven't had a good fighter since Rypien RIP. Boston had team toughness and good fighters when they one their cup but it wasn't the key component in their championship it was Thomas all the way. ANA is the only team since the 1997-1998 Detroit teams that really used intimidation to win ....They were heavily penalized throughout the playoffs and still won and destroyed Ottawa in the finals. Shanny said that the players on Detroit would pick a key star(s) before each series and either get them our either by intentionally injuring them or get them to quit the series via intimadation. That is one mean and tough team. Had to go and forgot to get to what I was communicating: only three teams in the last twenty years won their cups partially because they were tough, and only one ANA was it the main reason. Skill Trump's toughness and has for quite a while, even more so as of late:CHI, LA and PIT are pretty tame comparatively and won based on skill and defense/goaltending. Edited April 23, 2017 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sweathog Posted April 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, IBatch said: Pugilence was on the way out when AV was here and we really haven't had a good fighter since Rypien RIP. Boston had team toughness and good fighters when they one their cup but it wasn't the key component in their championship it was Thomas all the way. ANA is the only team since the 1997-1998 Detroit teams that really used intimidation to win ....They were heavily penalized throughout the playoffs and still won and destroyed Ottawa in the finals. Shanny said that the players on Detroit would pick a key star(s) before each series and either get them our either by intentionally injuring them or get them to quit the series via intimadation. That is one mean and tough team. Thomas played well but I don't think he was the main reason they won. The Canucks were intimidated, completely. That intimidation factor threw the Canucks totally off their game. What was frustrating about the 2011 Canucks team was that they had an abundance of speed and skill but virtually no toughness at all. It's fine to have a team that's geared more towards skill and speed, but a team like that needs at least a couple of heavy for pushback, especially on the road. Considering the fact that heavyweights are relatively easy to aquire, that was a major fail by Gillis. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 13 hours ago, mpt said: We don't have nearly enough skill to do anything significant besides having a lottery pick. I don't think we have even hit rock bottom yet. Not nearly enough skill? Sedins, Horvat, Eriksson, Sutter, Baer, Boeser, all have no skill? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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