Canucks' Team Toughness

[Honky Cat]

On 4/16/2017 at 11:11 AM, stawns said:

Though I have concerns about the lack of size and push back on the Canucks, I'd say Kapanen and Nylander have been the best Leafs and Backstrom has been, far and away, the best Capital.  

I have concerns..especially the forwards..Canucks need some toughness up front,not goon toughness,but guys that can hit ....Its no secret that if you pummel the Canucks D,.. we cannot respond..(case in point were games against Calgary,where they ran our D right into the infirmary)..we are just deficient in those kind of players...Virtanen was supposed to be that kind of player,but I can't even remember the last time he hit anyone.

[EdgarM]

1 minute ago, Johnny Shotgun said:

Toughness and the Canucks is an oxymoron.  Euro softness is the flavour of the day.

We have had intermittent team toughness over the years but we have been led by "not so tough" Nazzy and then Hank. Time to change the "culture" of this franchise.

[Johnny Shotgun]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

We have had intermittent team toughness over the years but we have been led by "not so tough" Nazzy and then Hank. Time to change the "culture" of this franchise.

Yes it is.  And always have been a big Sedin fan for all they have done on and off the ice.  Time for them to hang 'em up sadly.

[PhillipBlunt]

The Canucks are in limbo right now. A new core is beginning to emerge, but the standard bearers for the culture of the team are three players in their 30's who have been slowly declining.

 

Hopefully whomever the new coach is, they hand the reigns of the team to a handful of younger players to establish a new more inclusive and team wide culture, while putting the Sedins in support roles, and if Edler is still here (hopefully not), cutting his minutes down, and handing out more to the younger defenders.

 

Far too often, I've seen the three remaining pieces of the previous core, wilt from physical confrontation, which rookies on the team must absorb and try to make some sense of. The cumulative effect that can have on the team psyche is harmful.

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The Canucks are in limbo right now. A new core is beginning to emerge, but the standard bearers for the culture of the team are three players in their 30's who have been slowly declining.

 

Hopefully whomever the new coach is, they hand the reigns of the team to a handful of younger players to establish a new more inclusive and team wide culture, while putting the Sedins in support roles, and if Edler is still here (hopefully not), cutting his minutes down, and handing out more to the younger defenders.

 

Far too often, I've seen the three remaining pieces of the previous core, wilt from physical confrontation, which rookies on the team must absorb and try to make some sense of. The cumulative effect that can have on the team psyche is harmful.

 

I like how they casually coast to the bench, like retirees at the lawn bowling club...

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

I like how they casually coast to the bench, like retirees at the lawn bowling club...

It was a pretty casual season. Little to no pressure from the coaching staff.

[CeeBee51]

2 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I like how they casually coast to the bench, like retirees at the lawn bowling club...

hey, bowles is strenuous when you're getting up there in age 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

hey, bowles is strenuous when you're getting up there in age 

Don't tip yer hand, CB :^)

[CeeBee51]

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

Don't tip yer hand, CB :^)

shhhhhhh

[Guest]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Far too often, I've seen the three remaining pieces of the previous core, wilt from physical confrontation, which rookies on the team must absorb and try to make some sense of. The cumulative effect that can have on the team psyche is harmful.

 

Really?  I've never seen the Sedins wilt from physical confrontation.  I've seen them hundreds of times come back and try to score even harder.  Trying to punish the other team physically in retaliation would be getting them off their game.  

 

I know you'd prefer to have someone who wants to fight back, but young players that are in the NHL aren't 8 years old.  It's not going to stop Bo or Jake from fighting because the Sedins aren't physical players.  Come on now.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, VancouverHabitant said:

Really?  I've never seen the Sedins wilt from physical confrontation.  I've seen them hundreds of times come back and try to score even harder.  Trying to punish the other team physically in retaliation would be getting them off their game.  

I'm not talking about the numerous hits they receive in a game. They've made a career out of absorbing those and playing through them. It's more so the direct attacks on their person that hasn't been addressed over time, be it Marchand's embarrassing rabbit punching or dirty after the whistle BS.

Just now, VancouverHabitant said:

I know you'd prefer to have someone who wants to fight back, but young players that are in the NHL aren't 8 years old.

Huh?

 

The majority of fans of the Canucks I'm sure would love to have more players on the roster who don't take crap from other teams.

Just now, VancouverHabitant said:

 It's not going to stop Bo or Jake from fighting because the Sedins aren't physical players.  Come on now.

Again, it's not about fighting so much, as the majority of fights in hockey games are the premeditated variety and are pointless. More so, the overall mentality of the team, the willingness to defend each other and stand up for the team as a whole.

 

Again, the fact that the Sedins aren't out there cracking skulls isn't an issue. They're not that type of player. It's how they choose to react to the unnecessary, after the whistle business.  

[Guest]

A hockey player's identity has already been established by the time they get to the NHL.  They will have played around 15 years of hockey by the time they're rookies in the NHL so seeing Sedins go about their gentlemanly ways won't have as big of an impact as you think.

[Guest]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:23 AM, EdgarM said:

Oh you mean the Finals where we were shutout twice and were literally "beat up" by the opposition? Can you say "BALANCE"? I knew you could.

I'll take making it to the Finals over being a tough team that doesn't make the playoffs.  

 

It was Finals that went to game 7.  If someone just read your post they would think that the Canucks got swept in 4.

[R35Godz1lla]

26 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Again, the fact that the Sedins aren't out there cracking skulls isn't an issue. They're not that type of player. It's how they choose to react to the unnecessary, after the whistle business.  

By your own statement, that's not their game though. 

 

Yes Daniel seemed a tad more feisty in the last 20'ish games of the year and once he did it seemed to bring his game up, but the Sedin's where never and I highly doubt will ever be the kind of guys to start throwing glove punches in a scrum.

 

The fact that players like Rat Face feel they can get away with speed bagging them says more about the team as a whole than it does about the Sedins.

 

The blame in part goes to Management for not identifying players that will stick up for team mates ( I mentioned in another thread that loosing Dorsett this year really hurt the team ) but it also in turn falls to the players on the team to at times pull up their panties and play bigger and meaner than they are.

 

Gone are the days of goons and center ice fights to start a game and or period. Now toughness has to be throughout the makeup of a team. Toughness also does not always mean fighting, playing a hard game that throws the other team off can do just as much as punching at a visor can.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by R35Godz1lla

[Erik Karlsson]

50 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Really?  I've never seen the Sedins wilt from physical confrontation.  I've seen them hundreds of times come back and try to score even harder.  Trying to punish the other team physically in retaliation would be getting them off their game.  

 

I know you'd prefer to have someone who wants to fight back, but young players that are in the NHL aren't 8 years old.  It's not going to stop Bo or Jake from fighting because the Sedins aren't physical players.  Come on now.

 

 

Not sure if you've ever played, but when your captain and leaders have no pushback and get ragdolled by players like Marchand it can be pretty dermoralizing to the team and sets a bad example.

[lmm]

On this day the Canucks have released their "Hits of the Year " montage.

I counted 19 hits, 7 of which I would call quality. Several are misses that are aided by choppy editing and enhanced sound effect, (you know, like when your buddy says, "doush doush doush" while mimicing a fight). Most of the hits are by Gubber, Try and Sbisa, a few from Dorsett and singles by Balls, Skills and Beartschi.

That about explains "Team Toughness 2016-17 edition Canucks"

[stawns]

4 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

I have concerns..especially the forwards..Canucks need some toughness up front,not goon toughness,but guys that can hit ....Its no secret that if you pummel the Canucks D,.. we cannot respond..(case in point were games against Calgary,where they ran our D right into the infirmary)..we are just deficient in those kind of players...Virtanen was supposed to be that kind of player,but I can't even remember the last time he hit anyone.

He's using his body much better down in Utica......not like he was pre-shoulder, but trending that way.  I'm hoping there is some player movement before July 1st and they use some cap space to add some size and toughness.

[R35Godz1lla]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

He's using his body much better down in Utica......not like he was pre-shoulder, but trending that way.  I'm hoping there is some player movement before July 1st and they use some cap space to add some size and toughness.

Benning is going to have to daft / trade for toughness that he sees as part of the team going forward as unless he can pick up a UFA or two for under 1.5mill and 3 or less years I don't want to fill roster spots from outside sources that may not even be here when the rookies are starting gelling into the new core.

 

If Dorsett / Quads can have a good year, if Virtanen can keep the forward momentum going into next training camp and one or two more players emerge as physical presences we are well on our way ( for now ) to being a much tougher team to play against. Yes we need more size and grit in our top 6, but that will come with another year or two of drafting and or signing college/junior free agents.

 

Monkeys and Shakespeare and all that.

Edited April 19, 2017 by R35Godz1lla

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, R35Godz1lla said:

Benning is going to have to daft / trade for toughness that he sees as part of the team going forward as unless he can pick up a UFA or two for under 1.5mill and 3 or less years I don't want to fill roster spots from outside sources that may not even be here when the rookies are starting gelling into the new core.

 

If Dorsett / Quads can have a good year, if Virtanen can keep the forward momentum going into next training camp and one or two more players emerge as physical presences we are well on our way ( for now ) to being a much tougher team to play against. Yes we need more size and grit in our top 6, but that will come with another year or two of drafting and or signing college/junior free agents.

 

Monkeys and Shakespeare and all that.

Get rid of dorsett, he is completely ineffective in his role.  I have no issues with them using up cap space tri construct a hard hitting 4th line like the Caps have.  It will give the kids a lot more space.

 

People need to get over this idea that in a "rebuild" every spot needs to be taken up by a young player.  That's how you become the Oilers of the last decade.  

 

Despite all the crying and moaning in the media, JB has it right.......a team needs to be made up of a wide variety of player types at a variety of points in their careers.  

[R35Godz1lla]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

Get rid of dorsett, he is completely ineffective in his role.  I have no issues with them using up cap space tri construct a hard hitting 4th line like the Caps have.  It will give the kids a lot more space.

 

People need to get over this idea that in a "rebuild" every spot needs to be taken up by a young player.  That's how you become the Oilers of the last decade.  

 

Despite all the crying and moaning in the media, JB has it right.......a team needs to be made up of a wide variety of player types at a variety of points in their careers.  

I agree with you on needing a good balance of vets and youngsters, just don't want any anchors either. Does Dorsett have 1 year or two left? I some what agree with you though, I am sure there is a cheaper option out there, I don't think he is all that bad at his role, just overpaid for what he brings outside of a energy guy who hits.