Hockey Graphs ranks GMs

[Johnny Shotgun]

Just more useless drivel from self proclaimed experts. Meaningless.

[apollo]

12 hours ago, oldnews said:

Rutherford in the top 3 lol.

 

Curious how Joe Sakic finishes ahead of Benning - with a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd overall pick in their lineup, a couple back to back top 10 the past two years, a last overall finish this year - and how exactly did they plummet to last overall?   Was it a staggering 450 man games lost?

 

Tim Murray five spots better than Benning lulz.

How does Chiarelli rank 27th?

 

What a mickey mouse four point scoring system and how they arrived at them.

I'm not a Sakic fan at all... I actually don't like Burnaby Colorado Joe at all... he's a US sell out in my books but he's done better than JB.

 

Jim probably doesn't deserve to be 31st... but he's definitely bottom 5 in my books. 

 

But yea, there's lots wrong with this list... Dorion being bashed for the Brassard deal, yet it seems to have helped them slightly in the playoffs to have him over Mika... Holland... Chiarelli as you mentioned... I stopped scrolling after that lol. 

 

Terrible article nonetheless. 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Jesus people!  We have one of the highest payrolls in the league - and we are one of the very worst teams.  That means that, dollar for dollar, we have THE WORST contracts in the entire league.  Every other team is getting far more bang for their buck.  Every other team is assembled better than our's.  Every.  Other.  Team.  Las Vegas is probably going to be better than us next year!  Just think of the incompetence that's required for that sort of thing to happen!

That's the GM's fault.  Almost solely.

We have absolutely no one to replace the Sedins (and we've known we're going to need to replace them for 5 years now).  Again, that's the GM's fault.  And, the incompetence needed to allow this to happen is utterly staggering.  We had at least 5 goddamn years of warning - yet we did absolutely nothing (and now we're paying for that sheer stupidity).

 

Everyone's saying what a wonderful drafter Benning is - but just look at what he's done!  Since he's been here, he's had five 1st round picks.  Of those five picks, he threw one of the best ones directly into the trash (Virtanen).  Another one was basically thrown into the trash as well (McCann).  With the best pick of the bunch, he chose NOT to take the Best Player Available (in a humongous mistake).  The BPA is now lighting up the NHL, while our pick is actually plateauing (and getting outplayed by the 100th overall pick) two leagues lower.  So, five first-round picks - and he's blown more of them than he's hit!  And, these aren't crap-shoots like the later rounds, we are talking some top-6 picks here!  Almost none of those guys don't pan out huge.  Yet, Benning's already managed to get us one!

 

For the last two seasons, we didn't have anywhere close to enough goal-scorers.  To be a top team in the NHL, you need to score around 250+ goals a year.  Benning has stripped our team of goal-scoring since Day 1.  We only have players who are capable of scoring around 180 goals.  If you can't score 200 goals in a season, you are going to be somewhere around the bottom-5.  The teams Benning has built are guaranteed to be the worst in the league (he hasn't given us enough goal-scorers to do any better than that).  Again, this stuff should be obvious.  Yet, Benning never seems to realize it.  You can predict our finish 82 games in advance - by simply looking at how many goals we could conceivably score.  And, when every other team can score more goals than you...

 

Benning appears to completely ignore analytics - and just look at where that's getting us!  All those players you cringe at every time they touch the puck - well, most of them had uttrerly abysmal analytics when Benning picked them up!

 

Gillis threw all sorts of money at things which improved our team, yet didn't count against the salary-cap.  He gave our team a humongous advantage over every other team.  We had sleep-experts, travel-experts, an amazing sports-science team, nutritionists out the wazoo, etc...  Each of these things allowed us to ice a better team than everyone else.  Benning seems to have stopped all of these programs in their tracks.  We had an advantage - and he threw it right into the trash.

 

We used to have the best contract-man and salary-cap-guru in the league - until Benning fired him for no reason.  Now, remember my first point?  How our contracts are now the worst in the entire league (and hampering our team tremendously)?  Who could have seen this coming???  Also, notice how we aren't constantly doing sneaky things that allowed us to spend RIGHT up to the cap (and ice a better team than we should be able to ice) anymore?  Turns out having a salary-cap-guru is important in the salary-cap era.  Who could have guessed???

 

All these little things that Benning isn't doing - add up!  And, they add up to losses.

 

Every time he doesn't do these things, we get a little bit worse.  Now, multiply that by hundreds of stupid little things, and you get what we have today:  the worst team in the NHL over the last two years, with absolutely no hope of getting better in the short or medium-term.  Just think about that!  Most teams in our position have nowhere to go but up!  But, not our team.  We are about to get considerably worse (when the Sedins can't keep up anymore, which is right over the horizon, we won't have a single first-line caliber player unless Horvat keeps improving). 

This is almost all Benning's fault.

 

[Gaudette Celly]

23 minutes ago, apollo said:

I'm not a Sakic fan at all... I actually don't like Burnaby Colorado Joe at all... he's a US sell out in my books but he's done better than JB.

Please quantify your opinion.

 

11 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

This is almost all Benning's fault.

#fakenews

[The Lock]

Wow. Looking at the methodology of this report, they're basically using their "judgement" on what a good trade is, how well players are drafted, etc. Basically it's a bunch of hockey fans and their opinions thrown into a graph. They even said in the beginning of their methodology, what makes a good GM: "It’s a hard question, plagued by subjectivity, by bias, and by lack of transparency. It’s complicated by league mandates like the expansion draft and the hard salary cap."

 

So what exactly have they done to mitigate these issues?: "In the following articles, we will attempt to rank all 31 of the NHL’s GMs, as objectively as possible, according to seven important criteria. They each painstakingly researched trade histories, draft selections, and salary cap management, coming up with a final score for each."

 

So basically they're like anyone on a random hockey forum or media or whoever who thinks they are "objective". I can't even fathom how one could quantify 1 trade into a stat on whether it was "good" or "bad" and give it a number without some form of bias, let alone all of the trades performed by a GM. Just too much intangibility to the point where it's meaningless.

[apollo]

12 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Please quantify your opinion.

 

#fakenews

Born in Burnaby... played for an american franchise all his career (formerly quebec but w.e), never signed in vancouver... decided to continue living in that dumpster that is Colorado. 

 

Price and Weber should demand trades to Vancouver too. 

 

 

[The Lock]

9 minutes ago, apollo said:

Born in Burnaby... played for an american franchise all his career (formerly quebec but w.e), never signed in vancouver... decided to continue living in that dumpster that is Colorado. 

 

Price and Weber should demand trades to Vancouver too. 

Don't know whether to take this comment seriously or as a joke.... 

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Quote

So basically they're like anyone on a random hockey forum or media or whoever who thinks they are "objective". lol

 

How many internet commenters do a detailed study of every transaction every team has made over the course of multiple years???

 

So, this actually is pretty fair.  They were using subjective criteria, yes - but they were doing so to every team.  In an objective manner.  So, it's not like here, where everyone just LOVES Benning, simply because they are Canucks fans - and ignores the fact that Benning compares rather poorly to the other 29/30 GM's.  These guys aren't ignoring those other GM's...

When you compare our management to the other NHL teams' managments - we do not compare favourably.  At all.  We look like amateurs compared to everyone else.  We are actually near the very bottom, just like these guys said.  Maybe not dead-last, but close.  What management's done to our team is disgusting.  And, it doesn't look like we are going to be able to right the ship any time soon.

[combover]

I agree, he is one of the worst. 

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

 

How many internet commenters do a detailed study of every transaction every team has made over the course of multiple years???

 

So, this actually is pretty fair.  They were using subjective criteria, yes - but they were doing so to every team.  In an objective manner.  So, it's not like here, where everyone just LOVES Benning, simply because they are Canucks fans - and ignores the fact that Benning compares rather poorly to the other 29/30 GM's.  These guys aren't ignoring those other GM's...

When you compare our management to the other NHL teams' managments - we do not compare favourably.  At all.  We look like amateurs compared to everyone else.  We are actually near the very bottom, just like these guys said.  Maybe not dead-last, but close.  What management's done to our team is disgusting.  And, it doesn't look like we are going to be able to right the ship any time soon.

Bias yourself much? lol

 

You can't be objective with subjective criteria. They are opposite terms. It's like saying a war is peaceful, yet, if there's peace, there's no actual war.

 

So as soon as you said they are using "subjective criteria", that killed the rest of your argument.

[canucksnihilist]

well what a joke.

 

for a website with the word graph in its name, there aren't really any graphs.  all we get is a screenshot of an excel sheet that is super tiny.  WTF?  really is it that hard to have a few graphs?  in a website that is called hockey-graphs?  lol  this isn't the 1990s is it?  pfft.  whoever is running that site is a moron.  I didn't even bother to read any of the text - not a legitimate site by any means.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

Quote

You can't be objective with subjective criteria.

Are you joking, they do scientific studies about subjective criteria all the time.

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Are you joking, they do scientific studies about subjective criteria all the time.

And guess what? There are actually entire fields of psychology that are threatened to even exist right now because they tried to do just that and unable to reproduce those results.

[kingofsurrey]

14 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:

According to the Hockey Graphs analysis of NHL GMs that was published today, Benning ranks last. They rank drafting, development, salary cap management, trades, UFA signings and ELC signings and compute a final score. Benning was at 31st with Poile, Yzerman and Rutherford in the top three spots. Just sayin'.

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/

I would have to agree with that. 

 

 

Rookie NHL  Hockey Pres,  Rookie NHL  GM , Rookie NHL Coach  =  FAILURE

 

Not the way i would have started our clubs rebuild.....

[doobiedoodoo]

Such BS article. I am sure the same article two years ago would have ranked Stevey Y. last because it looked like he was going to lose Stamkos for nothing to UFA and Drouin saga.

 

 

[Ronaldoescobar]

1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Jesus people!  We have one of the highest payrolls in the league - and we are one of the very worst teams.  That means that, dollar for dollar, we have THE WORST contracts in the entire league.  Every other team is getting far more bang for their buck.  Every other team is assembled better than our's.  Every.  Other.  Team.  Las Vegas is probably going to be better than us next year!  Just think of the incompetence that's required for that sort of thing to happen!

That's the GM's fault.  Almost solely.

We have absolutely no one to replace the Sedins (and we've known we're going to need to replace them for 5 years now).  Again, that's the GM's fault.  And, the incompetence needed to allow this to happen is utterly staggering.  We had at least 5 goddamn years of warning - yet we did absolutely nothing (and now we're paying for that sheer stupidity).

 

Everyone's saying what a wonderful drafter Benning is - but just look at what he's done!  Since he's been here, he's had five 1st round picks.  Of those five picks, he threw one of the best ones directly into the trash (Virtanen).  Another one was basically thrown into the trash as well (McCann).  With the best pick of the bunch, he chose NOT to take the Best Player Available (in a humongous mistake).  The BPA is now lighting up the NHL, while our pick is actually plateauing (and getting outplayed by the 100th overall pick) two leagues lower.  So, five first-round picks - and he's blown more of them than he's hit!  And, these aren't crap-shoots like the later rounds, we are talking some top-6 picks here!  Almost none of those guys don't pan out huge.  Yet, Benning's already managed to get us one!

 

For the last two seasons, we didn't have anywhere close to enough goal-scorers.  To be a top team in the NHL, you need to score around 250+ goals a year.  Benning has stripped our team of goal-scoring since Day 1.  We only have players who are capable of scoring around 180 goals.  If you can't score 200 goals in a season, you are going to be somewhere around the bottom-5.  The teams Benning has built are guaranteed to be the worst in the league (he hasn't given us enough goal-scorers to do any better than that).  Again, this stuff should be obvious.  Yet, Benning never seems to realize it.  You can predict our finish 82 games in advance - by simply looking at how many goals we could conceivably score.  And, when every other team can score more goals than you...

 

Benning appears to completely ignore analytics - and just look at where that's getting us!  All those players you cringe at every time they touch the puck - well, most of them had uttrerly abysmal analytics when Benning picked them up!

 

Gillis threw all sorts of money at things which improved our team, yet didn't count against the salary-cap.  He gave our team a humongous advantage over every other team.  We had sleep-experts, travel-experts, an amazing sports-science team, nutritionists out the wazoo, etc...  Each of these things allowed us to ice a better team than everyone else.  Benning seems to have stopped all of these programs in their tracks.  We had an advantage - and he threw it right into the trash.

 

We used to have the best contract-man and salary-cap-guru in the league - until Benning fired him for no reason.  Now, remember my first point?  How our contracts are now the worst in the entire league (and hampering our team tremendously)?  Who could have seen this coming???  Also, notice how we aren't constantly doing sneaky things that allowed us to spend RIGHT up to the cap (and ice a better team than we should be able to ice) anymore?  Turns out having a salary-cap-guru is important in the salary-cap era.  Who could have guessed???

 

All these little things that Benning isn't doing - add up!  And, they add up to losses.

 

Every time he doesn't do these things, we get a little bit worse.  Now, multiply that by hundreds of stupid little things, and you get what we have today:  the worst team in the NHL over the last two years, with absolutely no hope of getting better in the short or medium-term.  Just think about that!  Most teams in our position have nowhere to go but up!  But, not our team.  We are about to get considerably worse (when the Sedins can't keep up anymore, which is right over the horizon, we won't have a single first-line caliber player unless Horvat keeps improving). 

This is almost all Benning's fault.

 

Wow!

 

I think you nailed it! Obviously MT is a dominant beast who will bring Calgary hundreds of cups of stanley, lead the league in scoring for decades and be a first ballot hall of famer.. I mean he has to as he played in the NHL right away!

 

Oh and almost forgot the colossal Boeser pick... what a mistake as JB had to see he was going to play another year at University and bust out shortly after...
 

[Ronaldoescobar]

4 minutes ago, doobiedoodoo said:

Such BS article. I am sure the same article two years ago would have ranked Stevey Y. last because it looked like he was going to lose Stamkos for nothing to UFA and Drouin saga.

 

 

Wrong! The article two years ago would have rated the canucks last anyway as its a poor attempt to bash the franchise once again and probably written by a couple kids from Toronto (tbh i dont care where theyre from as the whole site is clown shoes)

[Gaudette Celly]

57 minutes ago, apollo said:

Born in Burnaby... played for an american franchise all his career (formerly quebec but w.e), never signed in vancouver... decided to continue living in that dumpster that is Colorado. 

 

Price and Weber should demand trades to Vancouver too.

Actually, was asking about your comment that Sakic has done a better job than Benning.

[CanadianRugby]

 

13 hours ago, Toews said:

Instead of thread just bashing the source I thought we can actually have a discussion about how good Benning really is compared to his peers. Where would you rank him compared to other GMs?

30th.  

 

4 hours ago, TimberWolf said:

Who cares?

 

Even if he isn't the worst or top five worst, even if we could make a case that he was in the middle, he's not one of the best on any list. 

 

I want the best, anything else is screwing around..

According to CDC he is one of the best.  It's only a matter of time before Virtanen gets in shape and Boeser is outscoring McDavid.  

4 hours ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

He inherited an over the hill team on a steep and fast decline, with contract and no trade problems and a barren prospect cupboard . ....

According to him he inherited a team with a great core that would be turned around in a hurry.  

 

1 hour ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

We used to have the best contract-man and salary-cap-guru in the league - until Benning fired him for no reason.  

After seeing his first moves, including this huge one of getting rid of a great cap guy.. I hoped I was wrong but from the start I figured the next few years would be a waste of talent and time until Benning got fired.  

[qwijibo]

1 hour ago, apollo said:

Born in Burnaby... played for an american franchise all his career (formerly quebec but w.e), never signed in vancouver... decided to continue living in that dumpster that is Colorado. 

 

Price and Weber should demand trades to Vancouver too. 

 

 

How dare he play his entire career with one franchise.  That turncoat.  And he only spent 13 years playing in Colorado (and winning a cup) How could he possibly keep living and working in that beautiful area after his playing career was done. And he's such an American sellout that he only represented Canada in international play a measly six times.  

 

Get over yourself.