The Rebuild Kicked Off With Acquiring Bo, & Was Completed at 2019 Draft!

[ilduce39]

3 more years! 3 more years! 

 

“But Benning said... but Benning said....”

 

what hes done is steadily improve the depth and quality of the prospect pool.  We’re on the verge of something special happening as Jake and Goldy round into form.  As Pettersson/Dahlen/Gaudette/Juolevi/Demko approach the NHL. 

 

Of course the weirdos who have crapped on JB from day 1 reach back to quotes from 2014 to try and make some ridiculous non-point that holds no water in light of the team JB is assembling.  None of that matters - what matters is the team looks like it’s ready to ascend over the next 2 seasons.

 

If by some chance it flops - then on to the next GM. But as it stands things look promising - and could be more so after the draft. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

7 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

3 more years! 3 more years! 

 

“But Benning said... but Benning said....”

 

what hes done is steadily improve the depth and quality of the prospect pool.  We’re on the verge of something special happening as Jake and Goldy round into form.  As Pettersson/Dahlen/Gaudette/Juolevi/Demko approach the NHL. 

 

Of course the weirdos who have crapped on JB from day 1 reach back to quotes from 2014 to try and make some ridiculous non-point that holds no water in light of the team JB is assembling.  None of that matters - what matters is the team looks like it’s ready to ascend over the next 2 seasons.

 

If by some chance it flops - then on to the next GM. But as it stands things look promising - and could be more so after the draft. 

After a while it feels some regionally-motivated camps(with perhaps polar-opposite views, simultaneously existing) are just make-work projects to keep these irrelevant hacks & misfits getting a paycheque.

 

As media gets increasingly marginalized and/or obsolete, their jr hs girl-in-hallway gossip gets more shrill & desperate by the day. So pleased I've largely been away from sports media(in Asia) for the past couple decades. It's like going through a few yrs with absolutely no advertising around.

 

I'm sympathetic to the argument that modern society has made sport way too much of an obsession. Petty, lamentable twits & tweets are where it all takes us.

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Alf, they've been doing the same thing all along. Adding some young players and veterans to fill holes every year. They traded for prospects contenders had no room for in their first year (Vey) and did it again at the start of this year (Pouliot). They've tried to move pending ufa's every year they were out of the playoff race. Vrbata, Hamhuis, and Miller tied their hands with their NTC's and didn't get moved. Burrows and Hansen didn't tie their hands and Vanek didn't have one.

 

They said from the get go they wanted to try and compete for a playoff spot while "transitioning to a younger team" (rebuilding). Signing guys like Miller, Vrbata, Vanek etc were stay competitve moves. Even signing Gagner and Del Zotto last summer were to help stay competitive this year. Trading for Vey, Etem, Baertschi, Granlund, and Pouliot (young prospects) were rebuilding moves. What they couldn't do was control the sheer number and length of key injuries that have put extreme limitations on our ability to compete with little to call up. If you ask me they've stayed the course of what they said from the beginning. The only difference at all is their success at moving players at the deadline these past two years. Which, with ntc's involved, they don't have complete control over. Just as last year they failed to move Miller because he'd only go to a Cali team. Unfortunately the Cali teams were willing to go into the playoffs with the goalies they had. When it comes to ntc's you can only hope the players cooperate. Three didn't, two did.

I really don't think the team was rebuilding (creating a new core) more than they were just retooling (changing pieces around the old core.)  Yes, we brought in different pieces, but we didn't really change the core (Twins, Edler, Tanev, Burrows) until TDL 2017.  Kesler, likely saw the decline coming, and demanded a trade, or we would have kept him too. 

Rebuilding, to me, is creating a new core, not simply changing parts (even if they are younger) around an existing core.

[ilduce39]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I really don't think the team was rebuilding (creating a new core) more than they were just retooling (changing pieces around the old core.)  Yes, we brought in different pieces, but we didn't really change the core (Twins, Edler, Tanev, Burrows) until TDL 2017.  Kesler, likely saw the decline coming, and demanded a trade, or we would have kept him too. 

Rebuilding, to me, is creating a new core, not simply changing parts (even if they are younger) around an existing core.

The problem, when TL/JB took over, is there was no “new core” beyond Bo, who at the time was thought to be a 3rd liner. (Plus maybe Tanev?) 

 

People argue they should have gone all-in but we’ve discussed the NTCs and lack of depth (who plays when you trade everyone away?) as nauseum.  I also don’t see how you create a core out of depth picks.

 

Instead, they went slow-but-steady.  For every draft pick/college signing/young guy traded for they signed a Vrbata, Miller, Loui, Gagner, MDZ, Vanek.  

 

After rushing McCann/Virtanen they’ve doubled down on development.  That meant more Sutter/Dorsett/Guddy/Baertschi/Granlund/Leipsic/Motte deals and less draft picks.  Guys who were ready so the picks could take their time.  

 

To me, it’s been largely consistent.  Instead of scorched earth and building up from ashes there’s a foundation in place that’s waiting for a top line / starting goalie / top pairing defence to put it all into place.

 

Is the next core already in the organization?  I’m fairly confident we have the forwards to do that. Bo/Brock/Pettersson with Baer/Virtanen/Goldy/Gaudette/Dahlen.

 

I’m also okay with Markström/Demko in net.  Marky battled this year and Demko is a blue chipper.

 

Jim’s going to have to work some magic this offseason to get the D ready on schedule. There’s options.  I believe in Juolevi but we need more.  To keep or trade Tanev?  Do we land a Dahlin/Boqvist/Hughes/Dobson/Bouchard? Can Guddy stay healthy?  Can one of Stecher/Hutton/Pouliot step up?  Does a McEneny/Sautner have more to offer than bottom pairing upside? Does JB make a trade or big FA signing?  Does Tryamkin return?  

 

That’s the key to the “next core” for me, anyways!

[Nuxfanabroad]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I really don't think the team was rebuilding (creating a new core) more than they were just retooling (changing pieces around the old core.)  Yes, we brought in different pieces, but we didn't really change the core (Twins, Edler, Tanev, Burrows) until TDL 2017.  Kesler, likely saw the decline coming, and demanded a trade, or we would have kept him too. 

Rebuilding, to me, is creating a new core, not simply changing parts (even if they are younger) around an existing core.

They were RENOVATING(said in Dr Evil voice, with quote fingers goin)..nice hardwood floor, lofty, high-capped ceiling...& a big F***in bay window to take in the seasonal-Sedinery. ooh shag carpets.

[Baggins]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I really don't think the team was rebuilding (creating a new core) more than they were just retooling (changing pieces around the old core.)  Yes, we brought in different pieces, but we didn't really change the core (Twins, Edler, Tanev, Burrows) until TDL 2017.  Kesler, likely saw the decline coming, and demanded a trade, or we would have kept him too. 

Rebuilding, to me, is creating a new core, not simply changing parts (even if they are younger) around an existing core.

Did you expect to replace the entire core in one year with no prospect pool? Come on Alf. To rebuild you need several pieces to rebuild with and that's putting it mildly. I don't think the new core is on the team yet. Horvat and Boeser are the only two on the team that have established themselves as new core. Fans are far too quick to declare others new core simply because they're new and weren't traded for as far as I'm concerned. Remember Bieksa and Garrison in years one and two? How about buying out Booth and Higgins? They tried to move Hamhuis, one of those ntc's I mentioned. They've been doing the same thing year after year since they took over. A new core wasn't going to magically happen over night regardless of some old core players being here or not. Those old core have simply been a buffer for young guys to transition and learn from.

 

To become "new core" you need to establish yourself in a role that makes you difficult to replace. As I said, I only see two players that have definitely accomplished that. Others on the roster may get there and there's certainly some coming up that could be. But so far there's only two that have secured themselves as new core. This is why it needed to be done in stages rather than cleaning house with nothing to replace them. The last thing I wanted to see was becoming an Edmonton, just tossing young guy after young guy in to sink or swim. Time was needed and that's what management has provided.

 

To sum up: a new core wasn't going to magically appear if we moved the entire old core out immediately. We'd have been a team of AHL'ers and changing part UFA's with Bo in over his head. That's not how you build a new core.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Did you expect to replace the entire core in one year with no prospect pool? Come on Alf. To rebuild you need several pieces to rebuild with and that's putting it mildly. I don't think the new core is on the team yet. Horvat and Boeser are the only two on the team that have established themselves as new core. Fans are far too quick to declare others new core simply because they're new and weren't traded for as far as I'm concerned. Remember Bieksa and Garrison in years one and two? How about buying out Booth and Higgins? They tried to move Hamhuis, one of those ntc's I mentioned. They've been doing the same thing year after year since they took over. A new core wasn't going to magically happen over night regardless of some old core players being here or not. Those old core have simply been a buffer for young guys to transition and learn from.

 

To become "new core" you need to establish yourself in a role that makes you difficult to replace. As I said, I only see two players that have definitely accomplished that. Others on the roster may get there and there's certainly some coming up that could be. But so far there's only two that have secured themselves as new core. This is why it needed to be done in stages rather than cleaning house with nothing to replace them. The last thing I wanted to see was becoming an Edmonton, just tossing young guy after young guy in to sink or swim. Time was needed and that's what management has provided.

 

To sum up: a new core wasn't going to magically appear if we moved the entire old core out immediately. We'd have been a team of AHL'ers and changing part UFA's with Bo in over his head. That's not how you build a new core.

You make some good points, and (really) it's moot now.  The management is publicly stating we are getting younger, and will have cap space.  I agree that Bo and Boeser are part of the next core.  The others, hopefully, are coming over the next 2 or 3 seasons.  I guess we shall see how good the finished rebuild is in 4 or 5 years.  I am excited about the young guys coming along (and whomever we pick this draft and the next one too) and feel we will be a good team when all is done.  

[Gaudette Celly]

This "mixed messages" and "changed course" narrative is so nonsensical.  If that were true then this team should be nowhere right now, right back where they started 4 years ago from spinning their wheels, floundering, going in all directions and getting nowhere fast.

 

As for the veteran signings, how does one account for Toronto?  Edmonton?  Oh, "their rebuilds are over", right?  Fine, then what about Buffalo and Arizona signing the likes of Okposo and trading a HIGH FIRST for Stepan?  Frankly, there is no team out there that does this "blow it up and tank, all young players" model that some idolize.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

 

 

Quote

To sum up: a new core wasn't going to magically appear if we moved the entire old core out immediately. We'd have been a team of AHL'ers and changing part UFA's with Bo in over his head. That's not how you build a new core.

What’s so different to that scenario and what actually happened.

 

75 points

63 points

73 points. 

 

Yes we we had some injuries but this team in the last 3 years has been AHL caliber filled with AHL players. Megna, chaput, Boucher, Larsen, vey, skille, Prust, shore, etem, cracknell, bartkowski

 

Heck this year poor Brock was left the wolves expected to carry this team as a rookie. 

[The_Rocket]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

This "mixed messages" and "changed course" narrative is so nonsensical.  If that were true then this team should be nowhere right now, right back where they started 4 years ago from spinning their wheels, floundering, going in all directions and getting nowhere fast.

 

As for the veteran signings, how does one account for Toronto?  Edmonton?  Oh, "their rebuilds are over", right?  Fine, then what about Buffalo and Arizona signing the likes of Okposo and trading a HIGH FIRST for Stepan?  Frankly, there is no team out there that does this "blow it up and tank, all young players" model that some idolize.

The veteran signing complaints are hilarious. There’s like what, 5 players in the nhl that were drafted by the Canucks from 2006-2013? There’s not a lot, and the only 3 that are on the Canucks are horvat, Gaunce, and Hutton. That’s not a team. That’s not even one line. Obviously the Canucks need players on their roster, and since they had very little in the pipeline 4 years ago, that had to fill the gaps through free agency. People keep complaining about JB forgoing a rebuild for a “retool” with veteran signings and such, then complain that’s there’s only two or three core players on the roster. How are you supposed to Build a core in 4 years if you had none when you started and they take years to acquire and develop????? 

 

People try and say the rebuild has been going on forever. When did the rebuild start really though? When Vingeault was fired? When they trade Schneider?When torts called the core “stale”? When they traded Kesler? When the drafted Virtanen? The Canucks transition from competitor to rebuilder was vague because the core wasn’t bad, just old. And it took a long time for the core to be phased out (due to NTC’s, Sedins contract, etc.) Now that the whole core is gone (save for Edler), the new wave can be ushered in. 

 

edmonton and Toronto both took 2 rebuilds to get to where they are today (and Edmonton is still struggling). Buffalo is on its 2nd rebuild, as is Arizona. Canucks are setup to be rebuilt in less time despite the elongated phase-out period

[TimberWolf]

Lots of crap talking.

 

Here, I will make a challenge and you can quote me. If we win a cup under benning I will delete this account forever. All I ask in return is the usual suspects that claim benning is great make predictions at the beginning of the season in the prediction thread of their expectations and demands of a successful season instead of waiting till the end of the season to give a thumbs up "mission accomplished"

[Adarsh Sant]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

This "mixed messages" and "changed course" narrative is so nonsensical.  If that were true then this team should be nowhere right now, right back where they started 4 years ago from spinning their wheels, floundering, going in all directions and getting nowhere fast.

 

As for the veteran signings, how does one account for Toronto?  Edmonton?  Oh, "their rebuilds are over", right?  Fine, then what about Buffalo and Arizona signing the likes of Okposo and trading a HIGH FIRST for Stepan?  Frankly, there is no team out there that does this "blow it up and tank, all young players" model that some idolize.

 

3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

LOL, all subscribed and tapped right into any trolling clueless drama queen you can find.  And now that the rebuild is showing solid fruits after only 4 years you just cannot STAND it and desperately try to spin some new narrative, eh Botch.

 

Go off then, and watch your decade-plus #properrebuild Leafs get bounced in the first round.

 

3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

For those that literally and admittedly had no clue what was going on, and even now are still in denial.  I'd say the blindness is more sad than hilarious.

 

The only "stealth" part was the massive number of injuries to key players the past three years that dropped the team below where it should have finished if healthy, getting us better picks in the process.  The rebuild went from a team of declined veterans with NTCs and no prospects to a top-10 stockpile of quality young players now ready to come into a team with prime-aged veteran presence to make the transition.  In just a mere four years. 

 

Predicted exactly this quite a while ago -- after years of despair and confusion, some will wake up to a young competitive team and wonder "what happened?!"  The excuses should be amusing, probably something in the order of "got lucky" or something.

Mr.Hutton Wink will defend this regime till he dies 

[DSVII]

2 hours ago, Adarsh Sant said:

 

 

Mr.Hutton Wink will defend this regime till he dies 

But what if they trade Hutton?  

[Nuxfanabroad]

Stealthily..ninja-like.

 

They've spent five yrs reforming the franchise future-fortunes. This is the thread where this assertion is clearly, unapologetically stated(circa Oct, 2017). Can't understand why contrarians would hang around? There's lots of negativity likely persisting over at HFBoards(birds of feather, & all that). I don't want them to feel overly lonely...

 

Personally, have really been enjoying observing a revamped, rejigged, renovated, renewed recourse towards a youthful rebuild.

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

16 minutes ago, DSVII said:

But what if they trade Hutton?  

Are these potshots at Hutton's Wink

With namesake perhaps on the brink?

If there's a trade

Or rumours made

Perhaps we could peruse the link?!

[bloodycanuckleheads]

5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yes we we had some injuries but this team in the last 3 years has been AHL caliber filled with AHL players. Megna, chaput, Boucher, Larsen, vey, skille, Prust, shore, etem, cracknell, bartkowski

The sad thing is...  you could add a dozen more players to that list (Motte, Archibald, Goldobin, Dowd , Sautner, etc...). 

 

Like, seriously, we spend to the cap every year and only have 21 forward/defense spots on our roster, the fact that it's constantly filled-to-the-brim with AHL-caliber players is utterly shameful.  And, it's even worse when you have to listen to everyone here constantly brown-nosing our management.  Top-quality management doesn't fill your roster with low-quality players year after year.

[CanadianRugby]

23 hours ago, oldnews said:

Canadian Rugby 2017 - the Canucks have no future top 6 forwards!  The Leafs are the next Blackhawks!   Gotta have/win lottery pickz to build a team #properly.

 

Canadian Rugby 2018 - still can't engage in hockey talk - in favour of tell-all, one-liner narratives between two, oversimplified, imaginary nominal camps.

 

Er, Boeser at 23 sure showed those 'Loyalists" the failure in not #properlyrebuliding! 

The Canucks have no future top 6 forwards. 

The rebuild doesn't begin until the teardown and tank are activated! 

Er, no lottery wins....the Canucks are still another half decade from having rebuilt!  When will the rebuild begin?

Er, Leipsic isn't a pick - and just more part of the failure -  of the improper method!  The rething won't start until we tank and stockplie the pickz!

 

Got any hockey talk Rugby?  It sure beats this loaded narrative nonsense.

Hey isn't Boeser supposed to have his career ruined because he plays on a bottom feeder?  That's what you've argued would happen for a couple of years.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but Toronto is a really good team.  Their tanking/hoarding picks worked.

 

Vancouver did get top picks, where would our rebuild be without Juolevi, Virtanen & Pettersson? 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Hey isn't Boeser supposed to have his career ruined because he plays on a bottom feeder?  That's what you've argued would happen for a couple of years.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but Toronto is a really good team.  Their tanking/hoarding picks worked.

 

Vancouver did get top picks, where would our rebuild be without Juolevi, Virtanen & Pettersson? 

There are at least 1967 reasons you shouldn't cite the Fleas as rebuild case-studies. A probiscus monkey could have assembled a better roster over the decades!

[Rob_Zepp]

5 hours ago, TimberWolf said:

Lots of crap talking.

 

Here, I will make a challenge and you can quote me. If we win a cup under benning I will delete this account forever. All I ask in return is the usual suspects that claim benning is great make predictions at the beginning of the season in the prediction thread of their expectations and demands of a successful season instead of waiting till the end of the season to give a thumbs up "mission accomplished"

There is a prediction thread and many of the posters saying, on balance, that the Canuck management is doing a decent job had predictions there.   Extreme posters (either type) don't tend to make predictions as it allows them to not get "caught".    The vast majority of people who see positives in the direction Canucks are taking were more than certain this was not a playoff year.   I remain amazed with the number of key injuries they had that they were not lower in the standings - in terms of injuries to quality (core) players, they were in top three in the league and still managed to stay largely competitive all year.   With even 0.05 better overall save percentage and their top 4 D being available all at same time for even 60-70 games, who knows how much higher they would have finished.   Even winning a shootout (only team in NHL history to go 0 for season) would have been statistically probable.

 

Not sure how that is "crap" talking. 

[CanadianRugby]

22 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Please post some examples from 2014 and 2018 that show this.   I have not noticed anything of the sort.   ANYONE who didn't see a rough ride coming after the peak was far too optimistic but not having been part of the board in 2014 I am not sure what you are talking about so are you just portraying your own narrative for some form of message (that I still don't understand no matter how many time you use the term "loyalist"...what does that mean, they walk his dog and pick up his laundry?) that aligns, again, with you constantly wanting Benning fired?

 

Your GM is not perfect but he has moved himself easily into the top half in the NHL over the past couple of years simply by how he took an empty cupboard and bumped it from about 30th in NHL to about 5 to 8.   He also transformed how his team plays and brought a style that is in tune with the new NHL in terms of speed and forecheck.   No, he doesn't have all the pieces yet but sure looks like they are coming.    Does that make someone a "loyalist" for that?   Do I need to fly to Vancouver to get laundry?

If you want examples look up HuttonWink, Baggins & Oldnews posts.  I've done this numerous times before but spending an hour to dig up quotes just gets them ignored as nobody on CDC seems to be able to admit they've ever been wrong. 

 

A Benning loyalist is someone that sees no fault in any moves that he's made.

Eriksson contract?    He's not just paid to score

Vey trade?     Good gamble

"going for it" instead of trading for picks?    Being a terrible team ruins prospec... oh wait, their narrative has changed now to Benning doesn't need all his picks because he's just that good.  

 

If a GM consistently has one of the worst teams/highest picks then shouldn't his prospect pool improve?  Especially over the past regime, one that was trading all their picks away to go for the cup?