[Rumour] Hawks interested in Canucks D Michael Del Zotto

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, bad alice french said:

I'm not willing to trust our prospects with defending in the NHL. We need solid defenders in the interim. Losing sucks. I don't understand how people can call themselves fans and be ok with losing.

Who said anything about losing?  We are losing now, and have been for the last few years, with the vets in our line-up, no?  Trading MDZ will not make a difference to our winning or losing.  He's a place holder.  If JB can get a good prospect like he did for Burr and Hanson, then he should trade MDZ.  There is not going to be a wholesale of trades.  Guys like Sutter will stay around, so will Edler and Tanev.  However, JB wouldn't be doing his job of rebuilding our team if he didn't listen to trades on these guys too.  Bo isn't a rookie any more.  He's a very strong (albeit young) players, who is clearly an natural born leader.  Brock is something special too.  Plus, resign the Twins for another season or two if needs be.  But trading a guy like MDZ should not be given a second thought, if the return helps our future.

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Who said anything about losing?  We are losing now, and have been for the last few years, with the vets in our line-up, no?  Trading MDZ will not make a difference to our winning or losing.  He's a place holder.  If JB can get a good prospect like he did for Burr and Hanson, then he should trade MDZ.  There is not going to be a wholesale of trades.  Guys like Sutter will stay around, so will Edler and Tanev.  However, JB wouldn't be doing his job of rebuilding our team if he didn't listen to trades on these guys too.  Bo isn't a rookie any more.  He's a very strong (albeit young) players, who is clearly an natural born leader.  Brock is something special too.  Plus, resign the Twins for another season or two if needs be.  But trading a guy like MDZ should not be given a second thought, if the return helps our future.

Resign the Twins but get rid of MDZ? Oh my what planet are you from Alf? 

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Oh like the 2011 team?  They did win a few presidents cups though. 

Yes, that 2010 to 2012 team was something special, and led (arguably) by the Twins.  And we got the twins by trading away an older Trevor Linden, who was absolutely loved by all Canuck's fans?  I think getting Luongo needed us to trade Bryan Allen, a fourth overall pick didn't it?  

[Canuck Surfer]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Guys like Sutter will stay around, so will Edler and Tanev.

Were you not the biggest proponent of trading Tanev?

[skolozsy2]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Of course.  But I'm doubtful they're any less high on Hartman.

They would give up Hartman before Hayden in my opinion.  It seems like Hartman has a tendency to wind up in Q's doghouse once a month.

[86Viking]

Just now, skolozsy2 said:

They would give up Hartman before Hayden in my opinion.  It seems like Hartman has a tendency to wind up in Q's doghouse once a month.

Would they? He has shown NHL finish and produced decent #s. I havent seen him play so dont know about his inconsistancies. Would be a nice addition to our team if they dealt him over Hayden

[bad alice french]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Who said anything about losing?  We are losing now, and have been for the last few years, with the vets in our line-up, no?  Trading MDZ will not make a difference to our winning or losing.  He's a place holder.  If JB can get a good prospect like he did for Burr and Hanson, then he should trade MDZ.  There is not going to be a wholesale of trades.  Guys like Sutter will stay around, so will Edler and Tanev.  However, JB wouldn't be doing his job of rebuilding our team if he didn't listen to trades on these guys too.  Bo isn't a rookie any more.  He's a very strong (albeit young) players, who is clearly an natural born leader.  Brock is something special too.  Plus, resign the Twins for another season or two if needs be.  But trading a guy like MDZ should not be given a second thought, if the return helps our future.

I just don't feel that MDZ is enough of a liability or an asset worth surrendering for an unproven prospect or maybe even a draft pick. He makes us better. Burr and the badger were both on a decline and after the dust has settled, the jury is still way out on the prospects we got back in return. Still, I'm ok with those trades as the players were aging and due for a change. Just don't agree that MDZ is dispensable enough to justify a trade. If it's a hockey trade that will improve our team, ok. If it's a move for prospects, no way.

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, bad alice french said:

Replaceable with what? Another bonafide 3 or 4 NHL defender? MDZ is a very solid player and entering his prime.Holm is a minor leaguer. Not even a star minor leaguer at that. OJ is nowhere near NHL ready at this stage. Your reasoning isn't reasonable my friend.

He is replaceable in the offseason, and quite possibly in the short term with some overpaid veteran who a playoff team needs to move to make cap space for a trade.

 

MDZ has done everything we could have wanted and held the fort when we were still in the hunt playing way above his capability and pay grade.  On other nights he has been Michael Del Zotto, a #5-6 guy who struggles.  He brings nothing much more to the table than Hutton and Pouliot do.

 

You have no idea what Holm or Juolevi will be able to do, and you can’t pretend otherwise.  No one would have guessed that Hutton, Stetcher, or Pouliot we’re going to work out when they did.

 

The last half of a lost season is a perfect time to test out a guy like Holm.  Pouliot can play on either side if Holm just completely flounders.

 

[86Viking]

2 minutes ago, skolozsy2 said:

They would give up Hartman before Hayden in my opinion.  It seems like Hartman has a tendency to wind up in Q's doghouse once a month.

I just had a 3rd line vision on the Canucks:

 

Virtanen Gaudette Hartman/Hayden

 

Speed and grit

[EdgarM]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Yes, that 2010 to 2012 team was something special, and led (arguably) by the Twins.  And we got the twins by trading away an older Trevor Linden, who was absolutely loved by all Canuck's fans?  I think getting Luongo needed us to trade Bryan Allen, a fourth overall pick didn't it?  

Trevor was never the same when he returned but he was definitely the "Heart and Soul" of the team prior to his departure. I would trade Bryan Allen if we had the chance again. Haha. He was not doing very good when he left here. He had potential but he was no Pronger. 

[bad alice french]

5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Resign the Twins but get rid of MDZ? Oh my what planet are you from Alf? 

No doubt! Agreed.

[EdgarM]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Were you not the biggest proponent of trading Tanev?

That was on a different day. 

[bad alice french]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

He is replaceable in the offseason, and quite possibly in the short term with some overpaid veteran who a playoff team needs to move to make cap space for a trade.

 

MDZ has done everything we could have wanted and held the fort when we were still in the hunt playing way above his capability and pay grade.  On other nights he has been Michael Del Zotto, a #5-6 guy who struggles.  He brings nothing much more to the table than Hutton and Pouliot do.

 

You have no idea what Holm or Juolevi will be able to do, and you can’t pretend otherwise.  No one would have guessed that Hutton, Stetcher, or Pouliot we’re going to work out when they did.

 

The last half of a lost season is a perfect time to test out a guy like Holm.  Pouliot can play on either side if Holm just completely flounders.

 

Wow, you really have high hopes for this guy. If you're right about him, then I'm on board. Just don't understand the love for Holm. I'm with MDZ over that guy any day.. OJ is another story entirely.

[skolozsy2]

1 minute ago, Yotes said:

Would they? He has shown NHL finish and produced decent #s. I havent seen him play so dont know about his inconsistancies. Would be a nice addition to our team if they dealt him over Hayden

That's why he ends up in the doghouse, he disappears for games at a time.  He usually plays with Kane and should probably have 20 goals already, but too often he's not ready for the pass or just isn't able to finish.  He also can take some really dumb penalties in the offensive zone.

 

But when he's focused and motivated, he is one heck of a hockey player.  He just has to find a way to do it day in and day out.

[EdgarM]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

He is replaceable in the offseason, and quite possibly in the short term with some overpaid veteran who a playoff team needs to move to make cap space for a trade.

 

MDZ has done everything we could have wanted and held the fort when we were still in the hunt playing way above his capability and pay grade.  On other nights he has been Michael Del Zotto, a #5-6 guy who struggles.  He brings nothing much more to the table than Hutton and Pouliot do.

 

You have no idea what Holm or Juolevi will be able to do, and you can’t pretend otherwise.  No one would have guessed that Hutton, Stetcher, or Pouliot we’re going to work out when they did.

 

The last half of a lost season is a perfect time to test out a guy like Holm.  Pouliot can play on either side if Holm just completely flounders.

 

It sounds like you forgot how he has carried the D core earlier in the season. Everyone was saying how good of a pick up he was. I beg to differ that he does not bring more then Pouliot and Hutton. These are two young guys still trying to find their way in the NHL. MDZ is a PROVEN NHL DEFENSEMAN. 

Mr. Holm has to EARN his way on to the big club just like everyone else. 

[flickyoursedin]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Gudbranson should only be traded if it's clear that he isn't interested in re-signing.

 

Tanev is a steady influence on the defense that, if removed, along with Gudbranson being traded, would have a horrible effect on the defense corps.

 

Del Zotto should stay because of what he does on the ice, not because of his DJ skillzz.

I’m sure Gudbranson is interested in signing but at an asking price that is gonna be too high for what he brings. Tanev will be out of his prime by the time our Canucks are ready to actually compete for a cup. Yeah our d might be decimated it may even turn our bottom 3 team into a bottom 2 team. However we’d be getting a premium for our players while their values are at their highest. Also I’m not saying keep Del Zotto cuz he djs he’s continually in the top minutes for our dmen and he’s a good locker room guy.

[86Viking]

6 minutes ago, skolozsy2 said:

That's why he ends up in the doghouse, he disappears for games at a time.  He usually plays with Kane and should probably have 20 goals already, but too often he's not ready for the pass or just isn't able to finish.  He also can take some really dumb penalties in the offensive zone.

 

But when he's focused and motivated, he is one heck of a hockey player.  He just has to find a way to do it day in and day out.

Sounds like Virtanen, except Hartman has been more consistant at showing up than him. Although Jake hasn't had the longest look with good players to see if he could be more consistant

[chon derry]

MDZ  signed as a UFA   JB signed him , that usually means he wantS to play here!. and canuck brass wanted him here , hence the contract , its been mentioned already, how would that look signing a guy , only to trade him 5/8 the way thru his first season, ya  I'm pretty sure that's NOT the way to attract other UFA'S.

[Provost]

16 minutes ago, bad alice french said:

Wow, you really have high hopes for this guy. If you're right about him, then I'm on board. Just don't understand the love for Holm. I'm with MDZ over that guy any day.. OJ is another story entirely.

I don’t really, There should be the chance to see though.  He could surprise like the other guys, or he could fail.  If he gets a long stretch and is awful, then you know what you need to replace in the offseason.

 

We have a reasonable amount of defensive depth for guys who can play on that side:

 

Edler

Hutton

Pouliot

Del Zotto

Juolevi 

Holm

Brisebois

Wiercoch

Cederholm

Mceneny

Sautner

Stewart

Tryamkin

 

I have zero problem testing 2-3 of those guys out for stretches in a season we are already losing and won’t make the playoffs.  If none of them can handle it and we have traded MDZ, the worst that happens is losing an extra game or two, or losing by an extra .5 goals a game.

 

Ther are handfuls of guys who could be found in the offseason.

[Provost]

11 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

It sounds like you forgot how he has carried the D core earlier in the season. Everyone was saying how good of a pick up he was. I beg to differ that he does not bring more then Pouliot and Hutton. These are two young guys still trying to find their way in the NHL. MDZ is a PROVEN NHL DEFENSEMAN. 

Mr. Holm has to EARN his way on to the big club just like everyone else. 

So you reply that I have forgotten how he carried the D early on... while actually including a quote from me actually saying he had done that?