Yes or no to the Sedin’s next year?

[Baggins]

3 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Your line of questioning is leading the jury.

So what you're saying is....

 

 

I'll make it easy for you. Does this hit from 2006 look familiar.....

 

 

 

 

So in 2006 Weber stood up to Torres for the same type of hit on Boeser. Torres fought 23 times in the NHL. Did having somebody stand up to him discourage him from doing it again? Not at all. As a matter of fact Torres was suspended 5 times for illegal head contact after this and several more fights. The only thing that ended Torres' cheap shots was a 41 game suspension that essentially ended his career.

 

My point is standing up to a player prone to these types of actions accomplishes nothing. Those that believe it will discourage them are living in a fantasy world. It's more about ego than discouraging. Plus potentially losing a pp opportunity by taking an instigator.

 

[Baggins]

16 hours ago, EdgarM said:

They are all vitually the same but Vanek is stronger and can hit and is a little younger. Plus the other 2 wear letters(need to move on). We don't need 3 of these type of players so I would go with Vanek.

Still stuck on magic letters huh?

[MoneypuckOverlord]

Big yes for me.

 

10 years ago we had mats Sundin come in for a mere 3 months, yet this 3 months of sundins leadership and mentorship took the Sedins, to the next level from your average 1st line players to bondified superstars.  ALEX burrows Ryan Kesler ALEX from 3rd line tweeners to legit 2nd line players.  Edler and bieksa among others who said sundin make a huge impact to them.

 

They will groom the next generation of canucks, hopefully dhalen dhalin and pettersson next year.

[Rush17]

42 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Tryamkin signed a 3 year KHL deal. I don't see him going anywhere until it's over. There's is no transfer agreement with the KHL. Plus after reading what he had to say about our 'smelly drug city', I'm not so sure he has any interest in ever returning.

 

I don't see Tavares signing here without backing up the money truck, and wonder if that would even do it. If he's leaving the Isles it's for the big score, for a specific team, or to go to a contender. I can't see him signing with a rebuilding team. I'll be surprised if he's under 12m on a long term deal with full ntc.

 

Finally I'll be very surprised if the Sedins combine for 10m. They've signed for under market value on all their deals. I highly doubt money is their big incentive in returning.

How much we talking? ^^ 12m np

[Baggins]

48 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

How much we talking? ^^ 12m np

I think that's what he'll get (at least) signing anywhere. To convince him to sign with a rebuilding team, likely the maximum which is what, 20% of the cap? Around 14/15m. Truthfully I just can't see him having any interest in coming here. Why would leave a team that's struggled since he joined the league to go to a rebuilding team in a city he has no ties to? Not to mention putting himself in the fishbowl our market is. Sorry but I just don't see it. #pipedream

[alfstonker]

I can't believe how many actually think bringing the Sedins back for "at least" one more season. FM it could be more if they frame their terms to suit that scenario. And of course Trevor Linden has already given them the keys to the executive suite when it comes to making the decision of "when they want to retire" Can anyone seriously credit he could be so stupid?

 

Not only does an incompetent statement like that shackle your GM it screws your coach. THESE are the guys who should be dictating the make up of the team. 

 

Far too many people it seems are not only living in the past but seem incapable of actually seeing what is going on.

For example:

 

How do you play an "up-tempo, fast-skating, skilled game" (Did TL mention grit? No but Benning did** ) style of hockey when two thirds of one of your top two lines find it hard to chase or get away from any opponent?

The idea of that type of game is not just to create openings but to prevent the opposition from getting respite - but then the Sedin line comes on and voila the opposition make their changes and get a breather - no wonder we are so inconsistent, we are handicapped by two ageing vets who are shadows of their former selves and can't defend.

 

Benning said in May 2014

**"To win our division and keep going, we're going to have to go through the (L.A. Kings, Anaheim Ducks and San Jose Sharks). They're big heavy teams so when we talk to our scouting staff, one of our mandates is 'Let's try to get a little bit bigger, let's get a little more rugged so we can play both styles—we can play a skilled skating style when need be, but when it's a rugged physical game, we can play that game, too."  

Well we did draft some size but you have to wonder, apart from Pettersson and Lind what was the thinking with Rathbone, Palmu, Lockwood, Jasek, Zhukenov.

 

We signed a player who everyone knew had no pushback, to specifically play with the Sedins and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Meanwhile the team that let him go, the Bruins  - whadyaknow, signed David Backes a player with proven grit AND ability, to an identical contract. Some teams just have management with more focus than others it seems.

 

The coach is forced to play only players who the Twins are occasionally willing to trust and pass to on that line because they know they have no recovery speed.

Despite that we still constantly see the Twins giving the puck away because they try to force passes to each other. Am I the only one who sees this? And am I the only one tired of reading these quotes, it seems obvious they are oblivious to those large minus figures next to their name.

“That wasn’t good enough. From game to game and in games we’re having too many ups and downs. Every shift has to be better.” - Henrik

 

Pity the poor D pairing who have to play behind them knowing they seldom screen the goalie and play the type of behind the goal/on the boards style that draws their own defenders to them  - and then they lose the puck with the two defenders well aware that only the 3rd forward has the pace to get back to help against the rush.

 

The rub against the Twins is not that they are bad people, or that they are soft or unfit. It is that they are a counterweight to everything we were promised, everything we need to change in order to build a new style and identity for this team and sadly their style of leadership is not what this club needs now either.

 

The modern game is a 200ft game - is that not what we keep ramming down our rookie's throats, played at high speed and with grit and energy. It is actually past the time we needed to move on from the Twins. iMO we should have seen the conflict ahead and ensured that last season was their last. Now it looks like this TL created fiasco will go on for another year and who knows judging by the lemming like figures in the poll above, even longer. Of course by that time Rogers will be empty and we will have started another coach and probably a new GM.

[Baggins]

30 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I can't believe how many actually think bringing the Sedins back for "at least" one more season. FM it could be more if they frame their terms to suit that scenario. And of course Trevor Linden has already given them the keys to the executive suite when it comes to making the decision of "when they want to retire" Can anyone seriously credit he could be so stupid?

 

Not only does an incompetent statement like that shackle your GM it screws your coach. THESE are the guys who should be dictating the make up of the team. 

 

Far too many people it seems are not only living in the past but seem incapable of actually seeing what is going on.

For example:

 

How do you play an "up-tempo, fast-skating, skilled game" (Did TL mention grit? No but Benning did** ) style of hockey when two thirds of one of your top two lines find it hard to chase or get away from any opponent?

The idea of that type of game is not just to create openings but to prevent the opposition from getting respite - but then the Sedin line comes on and voila the opposition make their changes and get a breather - no wonder we are so inconsistent, we are handicapped by two ageing vets who are shadows of their former selves and can't defend.

 

Benning said in May 2014

**"To win our division and keep going, we're going to have to go through the (L.A. Kings, Anaheim Ducks and San Jose Sharks). They're big heavy teams so when we talk to our scouting staff, one of our mandates is 'Let's try to get a little bit bigger, let's get a little more rugged so we can play both styles—we can play a skilled skating style when need be, but when it's a rugged physical game, we can play that game, too."  

Well we did draft some size but you have to wonder, apart from Pettersson and Lind what was the thinking with Rathbone, Palmu, Lockwood, Jasek, Zhukenov.

 

We signed a player who everyone knew had no pushback, to specifically play with the Sedins and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Meanwhile the team that let him go, the Bruins  - whadyaknow, signed David Backes a player with proven grit AND ability, to an identical contract. Some teams just have management with more focus than others it seems.

 

The coach is forced to play only players who the Twins are occasionally willing to trust and pass to on that line because they know they have no recovery speed.

Despite that we still constantly see the Twins giving the puck away because they try to force passes to each other. Am I the only one who sees this? And am I the only one tired of reading these quotes, it seems obvious they are oblivious to those large minus figures next to their name.

“That wasn’t good enough. From game to game and in games we’re having too many ups and downs. Every shift has to be better.” - Henrik

 

Pity the poor D pairing who have to play behind them knowing they seldom screen the goalie and play the type of behind the goal/on the boards style that draws their own defenders to them  - and then they lose the puck with the two defenders well aware that only the 3rd forward has the pace to get back to help against the rush.

 

The rub against the Twins is not that they are bad people, or that they are soft or unfit. It is that they are a counterweight to everything we were promised, everything we need to change in order to build a new style and identity for this team and sadly their style of leadership is not what this club needs now either.

 

The modern game is a 200ft game - is that not what we keep ramming down our rookie's throats, played at high speed and with grit and energy. It is actually past the time we needed to move on from the Twins. iMO we should have seen the conflict ahead and ensured that last season was their last. Now it looks like this TL created fiasco will go on for another year and who knows judging by the lemming like figures in the poll above, even longer. Of course by that time Rogers will be empty and we will have started another coach and probably a new GM.

 

[Rush17]

41 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I can't believe how many actually think bringing the Sedins back for "at least" one more season. FM it could be more if they frame their terms to suit that scenario. And of course Trevor Linden has already given them the keys to the executive suite when it comes to making the decision of "when they want to retire" Can anyone seriously credit he could be so stupid?

 

Not only does an incompetent statement like that shackle your GM it screws your coach. THESE are the guys who should be dictating the make up of the team. 

 

Far too many people it seems are not only living in the past but seem incapable of actually seeing what is going on.

For example:

 

How do you play an "up-tempo, fast-skating, skilled game" (Did TL mention grit? No but Benning did** ) style of hockey when two thirds of one of your top two lines find it hard to chase or get away from any opponent?

The idea of that type of game is not just to create openings but to prevent the opposition from getting respite - but then the Sedin line comes on and voila the opposition make their changes and get a breather - no wonder we are so inconsistent, we are handicapped by two ageing vets who are shadows of their former selves and can't defend.

 

Benning said in May 2014

**"To win our division and keep going, we're going to have to go through the (L.A. Kings, Anaheim Ducks and San Jose Sharks). They're big heavy teams so when we talk to our scouting staff, one of our mandates is 'Let's try to get a little bit bigger, let's get a little more rugged so we can play both styles—we can play a skilled skating style when need be, but when it's a rugged physical game, we can play that game, too."  

Well we did draft some size but you have to wonder, apart from Pettersson and Lind what was the thinking with Rathbone, Palmu, Lockwood, Jasek, Zhukenov.

 

We signed a player who everyone knew had no pushback, to specifically play with the Sedins and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Meanwhile the team that let him go, the Bruins  - whadyaknow, signed David Backes a player with proven grit AND ability, to an identical contract. Some teams just have management with more focus than others it seems.

 

The coach is forced to play only players who the Twins are occasionally willing to trust and pass to on that line because they know they have no recovery speed.

Despite that we still constantly see the Twins giving the puck away because they try to force passes to each other. Am I the only one who sees this? And am I the only one tired of reading these quotes, it seems obvious they are oblivious to those large minus figures next to their name.

“That wasn’t good enough. From game to game and in games we’re having too many ups and downs. Every shift has to be better.” - Henrik

 

Pity the poor D pairing who have to play behind them knowing they seldom screen the goalie and play the type of behind the goal/on the boards style that draws their own defenders to them  - and then they lose the puck with the two defenders well aware that only the 3rd forward has the pace to get back to help against the rush.

 

The rub against the Twins is not that they are bad people, or that they are soft or unfit. It is that they are a counterweight to everything we were promised, everything we need to change in order to build a new style and identity for this team and sadly their style of leadership is not what this club needs now either.

 

The modern game is a 200ft game - is that not what we keep ramming down our rookie's throats, played at high speed and with grit and energy. It is actually past the time we needed to move on from the Twins. iMO we should have seen the conflict ahead and ensured that last season was their last. Now it looks like this TL created fiasco will go on for another year and who knows judging by the lemming like figures in the poll above, even longer. Of course by that time Rogers will be empty and we will have started another coach and probably a new GM.

- 73% o zone starts

- run to the bench instead of back-checking 

- say the same thing after losses

- do not lead by example  (no back check)

- have no push back 

- contracts are up this season

 

who has all these things in common? ...

 

Green wants the kids to back-check and play a complete game. who has to lead by example? your leaders. do our leaders do it?  not the twins...

 

green will not have a legitimate shot with this team until the sedins move on. they cannot skate fast, they are not hard to play against anywhere outside the o zone, and they do not back-check.

 

if the sedins come back. we can mark 2018-2019 a dud.  1 more year green will lose as head coach of this team. green is a phenomenal coach.. if he gets canned before we win a cup it will likely be due to the sedins wasting a season of his limited nhl career.  if they comeback and retire the following year. what happens to green if the team falls on its face during the first year of their absence. hes now 3 years in and starting to get questioned.  does he get canned that year? ok if not then how about our first exit of the post season in round 1 or 2.  bringing them back handicaps green from deploying the lineup composition he wants to build.  do we really want to make him and city suffer.

 

rip off the bandaid.  bring out the kool-aid. its party time.

 

[Rush17]

13 minutes ago, Baggins said:

 

you should get some pepto bismol.

[Hairy Kneel]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

....

So in 2006 Weber stood up to Torres for the same type of hit on Boeser. Torres fought 23 times in the NHL. Did having somebody stand up to him discourage him from doing it again? Not at all. As a matter of fact Torres was suspended 5 times for illegal head contact after this and several more fights. The only thing that ended Torres' cheap shots was a 41 game suspension that essentially ended his career.

 

My point is standing up to a player prone to these types of actions accomplishes nothing. Those that believe it will discourage them are living in a fantasy world. It's more about ego than discouraging. Plus potentially losing a pp opportunity by taking an instigator.

 

3

I'm not saying to sign two thugs instead of the Sedin's I'm saying sign two big forwards that can hit and skate hard and have scoring upside, I would have gladly seen an instigator after that Lewis cross-check into Brock. It would send a message. We need to toughen up and never will if the Sedin's are leading us in this "turn the other cheek" mentality. We've got lots of skill but need more toughness. I know the era of the enforcer is done, but finding 2 tough hard-nosed forwards that can finish checks and skate hard and are not afraid of the physical game.  

73% O Zone starts! If that's not sheltering what is, lets shelter the new kids instead.

 

[aGENT]

39 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I'm not saying to sign two thugs instead of the Sedin's I'm saying sign two big forwards that can hit and skate hard and have scoring upside

 

So your plan is for Benning to just simply go to the top 6 power forward tree and pluck one (or two!) off...mid season no less! 

 

Easy peasy!

 

[Hairy Kneel]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

So your plan is for Benning to just simply go to the top 6 power forward tree and pluck one (or two!) off...mid season no less! 

 

Easy peasy!

 

UFA /draft (the Tkachuk kid maybe) trade for young tough forwards (Brendan Lemieux? Domi?) UFA Maroon

Any combination of the above. Or just keep the Sedin's and tank some more. Either way.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

UFA /draft (the Tkachuk kid maybe) trade for young tough forwards (Brendan Lemieux? Domi?) UFA Maroon

Any combination of the above. Or just keep the Sedin's and tank some more. Either way.

We're likely a bottom 15 team next  year whether we do those things or bring the Sedins back or both.

 

I also have to point out that some of Benning's most criticized moves are those that address this very issue. Drafting Virtanen, trading for Gudbranson, trading for and signing Sutter, Dorsett and Sbisa to 'bad' contracts etc, etc...

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

Baggins with gif - geez I think I upset him.

 

 

[alfstonker]

45 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We're likely a bottom 15 team next  year whether we do those things or bring the Sedins back or both.

 

I also have to point out that some of Benning's most criticized moves are those that address this very issue. Drafting Virtanen, trading for Gudbranson, for and signing Sutter, Dorsett and Sbisa to 'bad' contracts etc, etc...

Sutter and Dorsett and Sbisa were not "bad" contracts imo. You could tell that from how we have missed them when out of the team. 

Sbisa was a standout for Vegas before his unfortunate injury.

Dorsett was playing like a 2nd/3rd liner and looking the part.

Sutter is a "swiss army knife" of forwards and can do just about anything including face offs.

 

My only trouble with Virtanen is how much he lacks hockey IQ. How could we scout the guy and still think he was worthy of a 6th o/a. He now looks like his place will be on the bottom two lines and even that may be difficult for him to achieve unless he realises he only has his physicality to win him an NHL place at present. 

 

I have been watching Ferland a lot recently and for all he was hated by CDC the guy is gem, he can do it all, if Jake has someone to model himself on it should be Michael Ferland. We can but hope, I wonder if Calgary would do a swap.

[Nucker 67]

Giving this a bit more thought, taking nostalgia out of the equation, I would be on board with changing the identity of this team. For years the Canucks have been led by the Sedins, two Swedes who rely on finesse and skill, rather than speed and grit. The Canucks have been a fairly soft team for a long time and it would be nice to change that. LIke when I think of the Kings or Ducks, I cringe every time we play them, because they're a tough, big, physical team that beats up on opponents. Boeser gets cross checked into the boards from behind. No reaction from the Canucks. Our friggen star rookie gets a cheap shot against him and no one ramps up the intensity. Brock had to do it himself by scoring minutes later. It's pathetic. This management seems to be more focused on respecting the Sedins as individuals than they are making this team harder to play against. Why do we need them? As mentors? They could re-sign Vanek, and they still have Gagner, Sutter and Eriksson up front. Horvat looks like he's already got a vet's mentality as well.

 

I want the Canucks to be feared. Tough task with the Sedins still leading this team though.   

[DarthMelvin]

I would prefer to get that money put somewhere else...this way we can say it's being used to the betterment of the Vancouver Canucks. And NO MORE NTCs or NMCs!

 

I like the Sedins but they are not who they used to be...they are not as feared as they used to be. 

 

If Management does resign them, then they do not care about the cup or you as a fan. And if they do get resigned...they better have a huge cut..As HSedin sed its not about the money. lol We will see.

 

 

[smithers joe]

i agree that we need to move on from the sedins. as a fan, that would be at the end of the season. 

from a team point of view, i'm trying to determine who i have that can not only score their points but insulate the younger players that might make this team next year. 

can they handle the many loses that can tear away their confidence? the sedins still have value to the young players and leading them in how to handle those games. 

when bo, sutter and baertschi were injured this season, where would we be without the sedins. 

we don't know if any of the young guys can come in and succeed right away. if they can than we won't need the sedins. 

my fear is without them, will we be forced to play young guys, who are not ready.

having pettersson, dahlin and gaudette make the grade next season would be great. 

if benning can find a couple of diamonds in the rough, then great. maybe i'll win the lottery.

maybe gaudette and dahlen can replace them this year. maybe not.

[EdgarM]

4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I'm not saying to sign two thugs instead of the Sedin's I'm saying sign two big forwards that can hit and skate hard and have scoring upside, I would have gladly seen an instigator after that Lewis cross-check into Brock. It would send a message. We need to toughen up and never will if the Sedin's are leading us in this "turn the other cheek" mentality. We've got lots of skill but need more toughness. I know the era of the enforcer is done, but finding 2 tough hard-nosed forwards that can finish checks and skate hard and are not afraid of the physical game.  

73% O Zone starts! If that's not sheltering what is, lets shelter the new kids instead.

 

Sheltered minutes and still -15! Even the stats guys can see this is a serious handicap to the team. They used to be able to help them out by getting a speedier winger to play with but even that is not helping them anymore. Please Sedins quit before you look like Jagr and embarrass yourselves right out of the league!

[Where'd Luongo?]