*Buzzsaw* Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Its 90% this team will not make the playoffs... probably 99%. While the year and the team's likely final position in the standings are a disappointment considering the talent which was available, it has been a really good year for evaluating the overall strengths and weaknesses of the team, especially its depth. A lot of the reason for the poor performance has been due to injuries to its core forwards... Horvat, Sutter and Baertschi, as well as the season ending injury to Derek Dorsett. The team has also suffered injuries to its defense, but not as severe. The team has shown weakness in the number of goals allowed, and especially with its penalty killing. It is also in the lower end of the standings in goals for, but quite as bad. In examining the young forwards pool there is a lot of room for optimism... Boeser, Horvat and Baertschi should be able to improve their offensive output for next year. Even Gaunce is trending up. And the offensive prospects are also looking good, with Elias Pettersson, Kole Lind, Adam Gaudette and even Jonah Gadjovitch will add a lot. Where my concerns are is in the area of defense. Edler is getting old, Tanev is too injury prone, and the rest of the younger crop are realistically at best 3/4 D. And Olli Juolevi might also be a decent 3/4, but is he a potential #1 or #2...? I don't think so. We had one potential #1 or #2 D, and that was Tryamkin... and his status with the Canucks is one big question mark. Maybe he will change his mind and consider returning, maybe the Canucks can buy out his KHL contract, but those are two big maybe's. Canucks need to look around the league and see who is available to be signed, and need to start looking at the 2018 Draft for Defensemen. Rasmus Dahlin, Noah Dobson, Jared McIsaac and Evan Bouchard should be on the Canuck's radar as picks. Even signing Erik Karlsson has to be looked at... if the Sedins do not return, or if they return at a low salary cap, there could be room for Karlsson. At 27, he is still young enough to be around for a Cup run with Bo, Boes, Demko and Pettersson. Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I’m a D-first type, wannabe builder. I'd even go as far as to sell a off Horvat to get both Swedish Dmen at the top of this year’s draft, if the Canucks were to win the lottery, which they will. Yup, the Canucks are going to win the lottery, folks. You read it here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I’m a D-first type, wannabe builder. I'd even go as far as to sell a off Horvat to get both Swedish Dmen at the top of this year’s draft, if the Canucks were to win the lottery, which they will. Yup, the Canucks are going to win the lottery, folks. You read it here first. Horvat can play as a 1st line centre or even 2nd why would they take that risk. Horvat is someone who is untouchable and is part of the future for the Canucks. If they traded him they really only have Pettersson as a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Our PK hasn't been great but don't forget thats probably more due to the loss of Sutter and Bo than our D. We are still 14th in the league in shots against, so if our D sucked with the loss of Bo and Sutter that number could be much much worse. Having said that tho I am hoping for D in the 1st round. There are couple of forwards it would be hard to pass on (Zadina, maybe baby Tkachuk) but if we end up picking in the 5-10 range it really needs to be D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: Our PK hasn't been great but don't forget thats probably more due to the loss of Sutter and Bo than our D. We are still 14th in the league in shots against, so if our D sucked with the loss of Bo and Sutter that number could be much much worse. Isn't there an old saying about the goalie being your best PKer? Until Demko is ready (with Miller gone), we might just have to 'grin & bear it".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said: Horvat can play as a 1st line centre or even 2nd why would they take that risk. Horvat is someone who is untouchable and is part of the future for the Canucks. If they traded him they really only have Pettersson as a replacement. Sure, on one hand you have your point, but on the other, by the time a serious Canucks core is competitive, Horvat will be a pending UFA. It is debatable if Horvat will be worth more to the long term success of a rebuilt core than a stud D available in this draft, like Boqvist. I agree with Buzz in that D is where it all starts. That might as well be the start here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBush Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Flawed logic if you think OJ is only a 3/4 yet Tryamkin was projected to be a 1/2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I like targeting teams that already have a few top D youth/prospects..takes so long from day drafted -->serviceable contributor. To get them partly developed, could match up with the timeline of the fwd prospects. Car/Philly are good examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBush Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Sure, on one hand you have your point, but on the other, by the time a serious Canucks core is competitive, Horvat will be a pending UFA. It is debatable if Horvat will be worth more to the long term success of a rebuilt core than a stud D available in this draft, like Boqvist. I agree with Buzz in that D is where it all starts. That might as well be the start here too. What makes you think he would leave? People don't leave Vancouver without a reason. There is a reason why we have been good with player retention in F/A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said: Horvat is someone who is untouchable and is part of the future for the Canucks. Horvat is not untouchable. This sentiment is a testament to the worship of false idols in Vancouver. I like the guy, he’s a super second line center, cut from the same cloth as a Rod Brind’Amour, but he’s not untouchable, especially to a roster like this one. I’m not saying give him up, I’m saying he has a price and it might be worth looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing any of our blue chip offensive talent for D... Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson should be untouchable. Horvat is the engine which drives this team... he give the kind of leadership which can't be overestimated. But any of the others should be potential trade bait for a chance to sign/draft a legitimate #1 or #2 D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, ReggieBush said: What makes you think he would leave? People don't leave Vancouver without a reason. There is a reason why we have been good with player retention in F/A. Nothing would be more valuable to this team than a true #1 D, which is worth more than a Horvat. I don’t know why he’d want to leave. My point is that I’d look at most any trade to get a super defence built as part of a core. Of course the idea of trading Horvat is going to get some backlash, as it should, but I remain convinced that defence wins championships. This team’s D is so far away, it’s not even close to being a contender, age wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said: I don't agree with the idea of sacrificing any of our blue chip offensive talent for D... Horvat, Boeser and Pettersson should be untouchable. Horvat is the engine which drives this team... he give the kind of leadership which can't be overestimated. But any of the others should be potential trade bait for a chance to sign/draft a legitimate #1 or #2 D. Problem is, the Canucks don’t have anything to offer to a team at this draft with a high pick, other than HoBo. Especially a rebuilding team. Horvat would be gold to a team that the Canucks figure to be in 3-4 years, right about when his contact is up, as it happens. That team would want a true cornerstone, impact player back in trade for that can’t-miss pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 It’s honestly pretty amazing how people consider Tryamkin a potential number 1/2 d-man but Juolevi isn’t. Lol. He really wasn’t as good as you all think he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: It’s honestly pretty amazing how people consider Tryamkin a potential number 1/2 d-man but Juolevi isn’t. Lol. He really wasn’t as good as you all think he was. No, he was better. Great potential, & I bet he'll be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Look at our record this year with Horvat, then look at it without Horvat. We're not trading Horvat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 36 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said: Horvat can play as a 1st line centre or even 2nd why would they take that risk. Horvat is someone who is untouchable and is part of the future for the Canucks. If they traded him they really only have Pettersson as a replacement. Horvat isn't untouchable, nobody is after Gretzky. Would you trade him for Ghost in Philly? Hmmm.. wouldnt want to ( and Philly probably wouldn't either, Boeser maybe), but working from the goalie out is generally the way to do it and Demko should be here as soon as next year. If Pettersson works out and is a Calder candidate as THN is predicting and we draft the BPA top ranked C this draft a deal like that has some validity next season. Would much rather win the lottery and draft Dahlin, if Juolevi works out we've got enough to get out soon. If not we draft a defenseman that could be draft plus three, or get something like Pouliot was for PIT, underwhelming but maybe a player. Its not the only way to do it, but it does work just ask Nashville and their embarrassment of riches, Weber, Josi, Ekblom, Ellis, Seth Jones etc...Solid top pairings get primo market return which helps later when trying to plug holes like a first line center. The OP is correct in the fact our D is not very good, well below average, and aside from Juolevi and maybe Brisbois the system is barren. We will have to concentrate on D, and draft plus three to get to the show plus three years to become impact puts this year's pick ready for prime time after Horvats contract is up. On the bright side PIT won a cup with a very average defense last year...so maybe things aren't so bad either and we should just stay the course, draft the BPA and trade when we get too deep in a certain area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Look at our record this year with Horvat, then look at it without Horvat. We're not trading Horvat Bo is one of the special players in the league who play way better than their contract. He’s more valuable, considering his cap hit, than many guys who get paid more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: Bo is one of the special players in the league who play way better than their contract. He’s more valuable, considering his cap hit, than many guys who get paid more. Indeed. If it's not obvious to people by now, with what the team has gone through this season, I just....I dunno. The phrase "lost cause" comes to mind when thinking of those people who choose to try and undermine his significance. Might be a simplistic way of looking at it, but again, just look at our record with Horvat as opposed to without him. This ragtag group of vets/young guns/journeymen is a bubble team with him in the lineup. Without him, we're literally the worst team in the league. He improves this team in almost every categorical way. Offense. Defence. FO percentage. PP. PK. Team speed. Leadership. His significance cannot be overstated, and any thoughts of trading him should be met with universal disapproval and banishment from the fandom. edit: I do agree with the OP though. Our most significant need right now is D, and outside of Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson and Demko (and maybe Gaudette if we're not talking about someone super high end), everything should be on the table for young, high end D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I agree, the Canucks need to be focused on D. They have quite a bit of good forward depth. I`m thinking once Edler leaves at the end of the 2018-19 season (assuming he gets traded at the TDL or retires), Tryamkin returns. Hopefully the Canucks also get Dahlin this year, or even Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, Hughes. The D (if all of the stars align), could be in 2019-20: Tryamkin - Dahlin Juolevi - Stecher Brisebois - Chatfield Brassard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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