Drafts, trades, signings... Should be all about Defense

[erkayloomeh]

If we don't have 3 top 2 centers isn't trading bo for and d a lateral move? 

I'm not interested in trading bo .

Case closed. He is the heart of our team.

We have assets to give up. Tanev   edler if he will waive. And some leaser value players like Baer and granny.  We have ufas we can go after and then there's the draft. 

No to trading bo. 

 

[ice orca]

7 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

No kidding, Tryamkin stepped right into the NHL without benefit of even skating on that size of rink. Sometimes "poise" screams that this guy already finds the game "slowed down"

His limited PP time was a real disservice, he has a wicked wrist shot and we hardly even saw a slap shot. Funny, good enough for PK work but not PP.

If the team was rolling the dice between Groot and Guddy at 4 mil a season, I would offer Big T more.

Yeah and his ability to stop speed guys from getting around him with that reach and active stick was one of the best on the if not the best on the d-corps.

[Jester13]

13 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Isn't there an old saying about the goalie being your best PKer?   Until Demko is ready (with Miller gone), we might just have to 'grin & bear it"....

I've said it a couple times this year in threads that I don't think our goaltending (or lack there of) is talked about enough. 

 

Sure, our D isn't the greatest this year, but holy moly our tending is atrocious - the worst in a long time. In my opinion it's our biggest weakness. 

 

I think our D gets a little too much criticism and our tending not enough. 

[189lb enforcers?]

8 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

Just to make things clear here:

 

Assuming the Canucks lucked out and got the 1st OA, you would look to trade Horvat (and assumed ++) to Arizona, or Buffalo, or Ottawa, or Montreal (all currently below the Canucks in the standings) in exchange for their 1st round pick, and this assumes that Boqvist was available for that selection. Right?

 

Now, let's reverse this. If Arizona, or Buffalo, or some other team wound up with the 1st OA pick (which they intended to use), and they offered a similar deal, for Vancouver's 1st (the 2nd OA?), would you do it? Arizona could offer Domi (++). Do you take that deal? Buffalo could offer Girgensons (++). Do you pull the trigger on that deal? 

 

I don't believe there's a lot of folks here who would do that deal. So if the Canucks wouldn't, or shouldn't make such a deal to move such a pick, why would the other team do it?

 

                                                  regards,  G.

You’re correct, there are not many folks who would do the deal I have spelled out, and for good reason. 

 

I listed an option; a rebuild identity and that’s about it. Feel free to poke it and laugh, I am not in this for anything more. Trading Horvat would be hard to fathom at this point, even for myself. I read that I’ve somehow undervalued him as a Canuck, which is not the case. I am merely suggesting a team identity and building concept that fully relies on the Canucks winning the lottery. 

 

Montreal and Ottawa are not in blow-up, scorched-earth, rebuild status yet and Montreal is hunting a #1 C and will possibly own a #5-7 pick. Sister Buffalo appears to be still attached to the Canucks’ draft successes and are likely one or two steps ahead in assets at this point in their rebuild attempts. Perhaps they would be interested in Horvat in their draft position? 

 

I’ve suggested that *if the Canucks win the Dahlin sweepstakes, they could trade Horvat to snag another top D prospect and Boqvist might be the player they select, mainly because the Canucks have next to nothing else to offer, not even in package, to get one of those top 7 picks, Boeser excluded. 

 

Chris Letang is possibly who this Boqvist kid might emulate. We’ve even heard comparables to Karlsson. That’s some seriously high expectations and comparables for a player “nobody” would potentially trade Horvat for on this board. 

 

In a discussion concerning the building of a defensive team and identity, why not play the devils advocate on here with my fellow fans by suggesting our team trades it’s heart and soul, in Horvat? What could go wrong? 

 

If the Canucks won the lotto/Dahlin, and then traded Horvat for what amounted to Boqvist, the Canucks would have the makings of a powerhouse defence core. Of course, Boqvist could also flop like most prospects do and become a Stetcher or Ellis. I would have to rely on professional scouting to work out those projections. I’d have to choose to either include an older Horvat in the rebuilding of a core, or not, and there are plenty of good reason to build around Horvat. Nobody needs convincing of them. 

 

I think the potential outcomes of such a proposal are obvious to work out and debate on preferences.

 

If anything, I believe I have done my best to not be labelled as an impatient fan looking for a quick turnover of the core/rebuild. A trade like this would set this team back, initially, but that’s where my crystal ball gets a little hazy. I truely am a D-first kind of hockey mind and want my team built from the back out, during a rebuild. Since the Canucks are winning the lottery, I will be happy however the proposal goes. 

 

 

 

 

[bobbyg43]

If only JB had drafted more D in the past 4 drafts . ,D take at least a year ,two or three longer to fully develop an mature.

If JB can come out of this draft with two A prospects an a couple of B prospects in first three rounds I would be ecstatic.

 

It would seem ,Jim now has this luxury to be able to focus on the back end this upcoming draft.Hopefully an extra pick or two would be extra nice in first few rounds.

[komodo0921]

16 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’m a D-first type, wannabe builder. 

 

I'd even go as far as to sell a off Horvat to get both Swedish Dmen at the top of this year’s draft, if the Canucks were to win the lottery, which they will. 

 

Yup, the Canucks are going to win the lottery, folks. You read it here first. 

 

 

I, firmly, believe that, if handled properly, our team could launch itself into the elite teams for a long time with this draft.

My vision, however, differs from yours and doesn't involve picking in the top five at all, including number one.

Does this sound crazy?

Perhaps.

But I've always been a fan of picking up multiples of pieces, where possible, as opposed to one. This years top five offers that option.

In a dream scenario, if we did get the number one pick, the hockey world becomes ours for the taking. 

If management made it known they were willing to move the pick, the offers would be disgusting and we'd have our choice of directions. 

For this thread, however, I'll concentrate on our defense.

With our current assets, combined with draft position presents an opportunity to, completely, overhaul our blue-line.

My first pick is Bode Wilde. I have no doubt that Wilde will be a star in the NHL. He excels in all aspects of the game and has the maturity we seem to like here.

My second pick is Jared McIsaac. An edgy player that takes care of his end first but still carries offensive upside.

My third pick is K'Andre Miller. Excels in the physical side of the game and, while not as offensively capable as the other two, still can put up points. A poor man's Darnell Nurse, so to say.

These three prospects turn our defense in a different direction, turning it into a balanced powerhouse. 

In this scenario, I've already re-signed Guddy.

 

Olli Juolevi                         Bode Wilde

Jared McIsaac                   Erik Gudbranson

K'Andre Miller 

 

I believe all three will be NHLers. If so, one draft fills out five of our six. To me, this defense is worth the cost, even if that price is Dahlin. 

If I were giving up Dahlin, I'd also be looking to fill in our top six, but that's another topic.

 

 

 

[stawns]

17 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Its 90% this team will not make the playoffs... probably 99%.

 

While the year and the team's likely final position in the standings are a disappointment considering the talent which was available, it has been a really good year for evaluating the overall strengths and weaknesses of the team, especially its depth.  A lot of the reason for the poor performance has been due to injuries to its core forwards... Horvat, Sutter and Baertschi, as well as the season ending injury to Derek Dorsett.  The team has also suffered injuries to its defense, but not as severe.

 

The team has shown weakness in the number of goals allowed, and especially with its penalty killing.  It is also in the lower end of the standings in goals for, but quite as bad.

 

In examining the young forwards pool there is a lot of room for optimism... Boeser, Horvat and Baertschi should be able to improve their offensive output for next year.  Even Gaunce is trending up.  And the offensive prospects are also looking good, with Elias Pettersson, Kole Lind, Adam Gaudette and even Jonah Gadjovitch will add a lot.

 

Where my concerns are is in the area of defense.  Edler is getting old, Tanev is too injury prone, and the rest of the younger crop are realistically at best 3/4 D. 

 

And Olli Juolevi might also be a decent 3/4, but is he a potential #1 or #2...?    I don't think so.

 

We had one potential #1 or #2 D, and that was Tryamkin... and his status with the Canucks is one big question mark.  Maybe he will change his mind and consider returning, maybe the Canucks can buy out his KHL contract, but those are two big maybe's.

 

Canucks need to look around the league and see who is available to be signed, and need to start looking at the 2018 Draft for Defensemen.  Rasmus Dahlin, Noah Dobson, Jared McIsaac and Evan Bouchard should be on the Canuck's radar as picks.

 

Even signing Erik Karlsson has to be looked at... if the Sedins do not return, or if they return at a low salary cap, there could be room for Karlsson.  At 27, he is still young enough to be around for a Cup run with Bo, Boes, Demko and Pettersson.

 

Comments?

 

 

if they had even a reasonable number of injuries, they are still in the playoff hunt.  For the third year in a row, injuries hamstrung the season.

[qwijibo]

17 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Its 90% this team will not make the playoffs... probably 99%.

 

While the year and the team's likely final position in the standings are a disappointment considering the talent which was available, it has been a really good year for evaluating the overall strengths and weaknesses of the team, especially its depth.  A lot of the reason for the poor performance has been due to injuries to its core forwards... Horvat, Sutter and Baertschi, as well as the season ending injury to Derek Dorsett.  The team has also suffered injuries to its defense, but not as severe.

 

The team has shown weakness in the number of goals allowed, and especially with its penalty killing.  It is also in the lower end of the standings in goals for, but quite as bad.

 

In examining the young forwards pool there is a lot of room for optimism... Boeser, Horvat and Baertschi should be able to improve their offensive output for next year.  Even Gaunce is trending up.  And the offensive prospects are also looking good, with Elias Pettersson, Kole Lind, Adam Gaudette and even Jonah Gadjovitch will add a lot.

 

Where my concerns are is in the area of defense.  Edler is getting old, Tanev is too injury prone, and the rest of the younger crop are realistically at best 3/4 D. 

 

And Olli Juolevi might also be a decent 3/4, but is he a potential #1 or #2...?    I don't think so.

 

We had one potential #1 or #2 D, and that was Tryamkin... and his status with the Canucks is one big question mark.  Maybe he will change his mind and consider returning, maybe the Canucks can buy out his KHL contract, but those are two big maybe's.

 

Canucks need to look around the league and see who is available to be signed, and need to start looking at the 2018 Draft for Defensemen.  Rasmus Dahlin, Noah Dobson, Jared McIsaac and Evan Bouchard should be on the Canuck's radar as picks.

 

Even signing Erik Karlsson has to be looked at... if the Sedins do not return, or if they return at a low salary cap, there could be room for Karlsson.  At 27, he is still young enough to be around for a Cup run with Bo, Boes, Demko and Pettersson.

 

Comments?

 

 

Canucks can't buy out his contract. He would have to buy out his own contract. 

[mikeyman109]

Ok lets get real here. Horvat isnt going anywhere for a couple reasons. The Canucks need a leader and he has been appointed the next leader of this team.

Secondly there is not going to be any interest from any team out there for a trade for Horvat for anything close to a Norris type Defense man. That's like saying why don't the Canucks package up Tanti ,Skriko, Sandlak  etc and trade them to Edmonton for Gretzky( actually asked back on Dan Russell old sportstalk radio show) First off other teams that currently have a superstar D man are not willing to trade them as they need them also. They also rarely come up in free agency as well.

The ONLY reasonable way to attain a Star Defense prospect is to DRAFT them!!! Thus we have to suck for a few more years to have the Draft picks you need to get such a player. If you look at where teams had to pick to get today's superstars you see them in the top three basically. Hey we drafted Henrik and Daniel 2-3. Look at the Hawks that finished last a few years in a row to get the players they have had the last few years, Detroit finished last a few years in a row in the 21 team league to get Yzerman etc. Qubec had to watch the last place team 5 years in a row to get the rights to Sakic and eventually Lindros who became Forsberg. You have no choice but to be patient and there's nothing you can do about it. We are not going back to the playoffs for a couple years and if we want to be a cup contender it may take a few more years of losing to get there.Lets enjoy watching the forwards we have today and hope the lotto balls fall our way to pick Dahlin or one of the other prime D prospects in this draft.

Signing Karlsson would be a waste of cash and just put us back into a 15th or worse pick as we wont be a contender and we wont be drafting high enough to get "special" players.Patience!!!!!

[oldnews]

20 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’m a D-first type, wannabe builder. 

 

I'd even go as far as to sell a off Horvat to get both Swedish Dmen at the top of this year’s draft, if the Canucks were to win the lottery, which they will. 

 

Yup, the Canucks are going to win the lottery, folks. You read it here first. 

 

 

I think you might need/want a beer - before - and after - the lottery.

[rekker]

38 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Ok lets get real here. Horvat isnt going anywhere for a couple reasons. The Canucks need a leader and he has been appointed the next leader of this team.

Secondly there is not going to be any interest from any team out there for a trade for Horvat for anything close to a Norris type Defense man. That's like saying why don't the Canucks package up Tanti ,Skriko, Sandlak  etc and trade them to Edmonton for Gretzky( actually asked back on Dan Russell old sportstalk radio show) First off other teams that currently have a superstar D man are not willing to trade them as they need them also. They also rarely come up in free agency as well.

The ONLY reasonable way to attain a Star Defense prospect is to DRAFT them!!! Thus we have to suck for a few more years to have the Draft picks you need to get such a player. If you look at where teams had to pick to get today's superstars you see them in the top three basically. Hey we drafted Henrik and Daniel 2-3. Look at the Hawks that finished last a few years in a row to get the players they have had the last few years, Detroit finished last a few years in a row in the 21 team league to get Yzerman etc. Qubec had to watch the last place team 5 years in a row to get the rights to Sakic and eventually Lindros who became Forsberg. You have no choice but to be patient and there's nothing you can do about it. We are not going back to the playoffs for a couple years and if we want to be a cup contender it may take a few more years of losing to get there.Lets enjoy watching the forwards we have today and hope the lotto balls fall our way to pick Dahlin or one of the other prime D prospects in this draft.

Signing Karlsson would be a waste of cash and just put us back into a 15th or worse pick as we wont be a contender and we wont be drafting high enough to get "special" players.Patience!!!!!

Finally. A voice of reason. 

[rekker]

4 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You’re correct, there are not many folks who would do the deal I have spelled out, and for good reason. 

 

I listed an option; a rebuild identity and that’s about it. Feel free to poke it and laugh, I am not in this for anything more. Trading Horvat would be hard to fathom at this point, even for myself. I read that I’ve somehow undervalued him as a Canuck, which is not the case. I am merely suggesting a team identity and building concept that fully relies on the Canucks winning the lottery. 

 

Montreal and Ottawa are not in blow-up, scorched-earth, rebuild status yet and Montreal is hunting a #1 C and will possibly own a #5-7 pick. Sister Buffalo appears to be still attached to the Canucks’ draft successes and are likely one or two steps ahead in assets at this point in their rebuild attempts. Perhaps they would be interested in Horvat in their draft position? 

 

I’ve suggested that *if the Canucks win the Dahlin sweepstakes, they could trade Horvat to snag another top D prospect and Boqvist might be the player they select, mainly because the Canucks have next to nothing else to offer, not even in package, to get one of those top 7 picks, Boeser excluded. 

 

Chris Letang is possibly who this Boqvist kid might emulate. We’ve even heard comparables to Karlsson. That’s some seriously high expectations and comparables for a player “nobody” would potentially trade Horvat for on this board. 

 

In a discussion concerning the building of a defensive team and identity, why not play the devils advocate on here with my fellow fans by suggesting our team trades it’s heart and soul, in Horvat? What could go wrong? 

 

If the Canucks won the lotto/Dahlin, and then traded Horvat for what amounted to Boqvist, the Canucks would have the makings of a powerhouse defence core. Of course, Boqvist could also flop like most prospects do and become a Stetcher or Ellis. I would have to rely on professional scouting to work out those projections. I’d have to choose to either include an older Horvat in the rebuilding of a core, or not, and there are plenty of good reason to build around Horvat. Nobody needs convincing of them. 

 

I think the potential outcomes of such a proposal are obvious to work out and debate on preferences.

 

If anything, I believe I have done my best to not be labelled as an impatient fan looking for a quick turnover of the core/rebuild. A trade like this would set this team back, initially, but that’s where my crystal ball gets a little hazy. I truely am a D-first kind of hockey mind and want my team built from the back out, during a rebuild. Since the Canucks are winning the lottery, I will be happy however the proposal goes. 

 

 

 

 

I don't get any proposal where you trade Bo. Especially Bo for a D. We need D for sure. But how do you replace Bo? Your plugging one leak and creating another. That's Bergeven type thinking there. Not buying it. 

[oldnews]

Stay the course.

A few years ago most people thought the blueline was much further rebuilt than the forward group - and they were right - at that point.

Lose Tryamkin, Sbisa, draft and acquire some forwards - and the balance has shifted.

Each decision is situational though - so you can't simply focus all-in on D.  For example, if your high pick in this draft lands in line with a powerforward BPA....you may have to postpone/offset your priority - but undoubtedly management will be keeping their eye on deepening their blueline prospect lines.

 

 

 

[*Buzzsaw*]

There is also the fact Drew Doughty's contract is coming up in 2019... although the chances are he'll resign with LA.

[189lb enforcers?]

Canucks are currently sitting with the 4th OA pick.

Who would you take?

 

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Canucks are currently sitting with the 4th OA pick.

Who would you take?

 

At this point it seems to fall right in the wheelhouse of this team's (arguably) primary need - RHpmd Adam Boqvist.

 

You watch his release alone and have to think of what that looks like in addition to guys like Pettersson and Boeser.  The powerplay could be the most lethal in franchise history in a few years.

 

And then there's his skating.  To me, he looks like he has that intangible factor of being driven and teeming with confidence - not unlike Pettersson.

Would be really hard to pass on that - I think you have to take that risk/opportunity if you have it.

 

That said, if they're not at 4 but fall lol - there are some other pretty good options that could also allign BPA with RHD organizational need - ie Bouchard.

[189lb enforcers?]

22 minutes ago, oldnews said:

At this point it seems to fall right in the wheelhouse of this team's (arguably) primary need - RHpmd Adam Boqvist.

 

You watch his release alone and have to think of what that looks like in addition to guys like Pettersson and Boeser.  The powerplay could be the most lethal in franchise history in a few years.

 

And then there's his skating.  To me, he looks like he has that intangible factor of being driven and teeming with confidence - not unlike Pettersson.

Would be really hard to pass on that - I think you have to take that risk/opportunity if you have it.

 

That said, if they're not at 4 but fall lol - there are some other pretty good options that could also allign BPA with RHD organizational need - ie Bouchard.

Well said. 

Then there is BT, very likely the perfect complement to the HOBO line. 

 

By this time next year, the posters here will be raving about whatever beauty pick we add that seems like it’s just gift wrapped and waiting for the team in June.

 

Even the hard times are good times for long-suffering Canucks fans. 

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Well said. 

Then there is BT, very likely the perfect complement to the HOBO line. 

 

By this time next year, the posters here will be raving about whatever beauty pick we add that seems like it’s just gift wrapped and waiting for the team in June.

 

Even the hard times are good times for long-suffering Canucks fans. 

If the team is at 4, it may not have the choice - it may be made for them (by whomever has 3).

Then again, there is the possiblity neither of them are there at 4, but my guess would be that one of Zadina or Svechnikov go before BT.

 

Or we could bank on Pronman, try to pick up a mid round pick and take Tkachuk in around 15......

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2018-draft/2018-nhl-draft-rankings

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, oldnews said:

If the team is at 4, it may not have the choice - it may be made for them (by whomever has 3).

Then again, there is the possiblity neither of them are there at 4, but my guess would be that one of Zadina or Svechnikov go before BT.

 

Or we could bank on Pronman, try to pick up a mid round pick and take Tkachuk in around 15......

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2018-draft/2018-nhl-draft-rankings

I think he dropped Tkachuk to 15 so you'd be so intrigued you'd pay for a subscription to The Athletic 

[189lb enforcers?]

29 minutes ago, oldnews said:

If the team is at 4, it may not have the choice - it may be made for them (by whomever has 3).

Then again, there is the possiblity neither of them are there at 4, but my guess would be that one of Zadina or Svechnikov go before BT.

 

Or we could bank on Pronman, try to pick up a mid round pick and take Tkachuk in around 15......

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2018-draft/2018-nhl-draft-rankings

I am surprised he put BT so low, at 15, when my eye’s consensus from that page puts him at 4ish. 

 

I havent watched the kid beyond what I saw at the WJHC, but loved the game he brought. Personally, I’d take him at 2nd, if I was hunting a forward and had the pick. 

 

Should the Canucks take him or go with Boqvist if they were both there at 4? Or do you feel Zadina or Svechnikov would be a better pick? Those appear to be the 2-5 group behind Dahlin in most rankings so far, at least. 

 

This one would be a decision I couldn’t easily make. I think BT might be the next Shanny, but then Boqvist looks like he might be a Letang or Karlsson. The perfect winger for a slight, skilled Canucks forward core or a smallish offensive dynamo on D? I’d need a team to help me with that one.